Would you fly in a 737 Max 8 right now?

Walter

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 28, 2007
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perhaps planes that crash should be discontinued.
;)
Planes that crash are discontinued.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
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Sounds like many pilots have reported flight control problems on these models. Many temporary in-flight occurances. Most dealt with by disengaging autopilot. At minimum these planes should be flown manually until ample altitude before engaging the flight management system.
 

VIBC

Electoral Member
Mar 3, 2019
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Good to know they know their limitations.
The limitations in this case are possession of the equipment for retrieval of the (possibly damaged) flight recorder data and acquired expertise in analysing it. I think Ethiopia, like many other countries, has had little reason to obtain these.

You can't do it with your ipad:)

" .... how about Ethiopian Airlines? Here is another impoverished country surrounded by rugged terrain. Yet the record of its national carrier — three fatal events, one of them a hijacking, in over seventy years of operation — is exceptional. Ethiopian is one of the proudest and arguably one of the safest airlines in the world."
https://www.askthepilot.com/questionanswers/foreign-airline-safety/
 

VIBC

Electoral Member
Mar 3, 2019
673
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Sounds like many pilots have reported flight control problems on these models. Many temporary in-flight occurances. Most dealt with by disengaging autopilot. At minimum these planes should be flown manually until ample altitude before engaging the flight management system.

Kreskin, Not seeking to argue with you but I'm not sure this "attitude management system" or whatever they call it, depends on the autopilot being engaged. My impression (not knowledge!) is that it can activate itself regardless, unless of course it has been (somehow) deliberately and specifically disarmed.
 

Ocean Breeze

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Jun 5, 2005
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The limitations in this case are possession of the equipment for retrieval of the (possibly damaged) flight recorder data and acquired expertise in analysing it. I think Ethiopia, like many other countries, has had little reason to obtain these.

You can't do it with your ipad:)

" .... how about Ethiopian Airlines? Here is another impoverished country surrounded by rugged terrain. Yet the record of its national carrier — three fatal events, one of them a hijacking, in over seventy years of operation — is exceptional. Ethiopian is one of the proudest and arguably one of the safest airlines in the world."
https://www.askthepilot.com/questionanswers/foreign-airline-safety/
Interesting link... Thks.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
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Kreskin, Not seeking to argue with you but I'm not sure this "attitude management system" or whatever they call it, depends on the autopilot being engaged. My impression (not knowledge!) is that it can activate itself regardless, unless of course it has been (somehow) deliberately and specifically disarmed.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...us/pilot-complaints-boeing-737-max/index.html
I'm by no means an expert. I noticed on this report that some pilots noted the issue occurred when autopilot was engaged shortly after takeoff, and they resolved it by disengagement.
 

Curious Cdn

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 22, 2015
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I'd have second thoughts about fliying in a helicopter right now....
The daughter of a good friend of my wife and the daughter's husband crashed last week
Missing couple's helicopter found in wooded area, partially buried in snow: search master

Crews in a Canadian Armed Forces Hercules aircraft spotted the site of a helicopter crash, circled in red, March 11, 2019. It was found 35 nautical miles from Nicole and Jody Blais' destination, a hangar in Fauquier. Supplied photo


The Navy had an incident a month ago that has been quietly forgotten with the new fly-by-wire CH-148 Cyclone helicopter. This machine is right out of the Sikorsky plant with state-of-the-art fly by wire technology. It made a "hard landing" on the deck of our new supply ship, mid-A acific, which had to put into Guam, presumably to unload it.

http://nationalpost.com/news/nation...ship/wcm/fb2be0a2-600c-46fe-9a9f-ba952ee7ac22

What is notable about the incident is that a Cyclone suddenly list power and dropped a distance while being tested a couple of years backwhen the fly-by-wire computer rebooted itself in mid hover!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/cyclone-helicopter-royal-canadian-air-force-1.4159754

No one was hurt in either accident, although the "hard landing" a month ago caused visible damage. These are seriously expensive aircraft ... big one too and they could be carrying two dozen soldiers and a crew of airmen the next time the computer feels the need to "re-boot".

A.I. isn't quite there, yet and computer code is never perfect.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
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I'm one of those x-plane warriors lol. I only know enough to realize some crazy stuff can happen when you don't fully understand why it occurs. I once flew a simulated 747 that wouldnt descend below about 5000 feet unless i slowed to a stall lol. Could not figure out why. Fortunately all i had to do was abandon the flight and start over.
 

Curious Cdn

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 22, 2015
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I'm one of those x-plane warriors lol. I only know enough to realize some crazy stuff can happen when you don't fully understand why it occurs. I once flew a simulated 747 that wouldnt descend below about 5000 feet unless i slowed to a stall lol. Could not figure out why. Fortunately all i had to do was abandon the flight and start over.
You're supposed to put another Looney in the slot and it'll power up, again and the nose will come back up.
 

VIBC

Electoral Member
Mar 3, 2019
673
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...us/pilot-complaints-boeing-737-max/index.html
I'm by no means an expert. I noticed on this report that some pilots noted the issue occurred when autopilot was engaged shortly after takeoff, and they resolved it by disengagement.


Probably a question of crossed terminology. I found this on the AskThePilot site:

This nose-down command can last upwards of ten seconds, Boeing says, and can repeat at five-second intervals, whether in manual flight or with the autopilot engaged. If and when this happens, the stabilizer trim itself gives no indication that it’s moving. All the crew knows is that the plane is nosing over.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
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kick it on the side, then!
[see: Boeing 747 Owner's Manual pgs. 40-50]
It's in the glove box under the CAA map of the North Atlantic Great Circle Routes.
It was like I was caught in some fight between ILS, glide slope and an FMS that wanted to go somewhere else. Just floated in circles. I should've reported this to the FAA ;). The good news is I had no paying customers. If I had I'd have told them to piss off and that it wasn't getting any easier with their nagging, and if they didn't like it they should fly their own goddam airplanes. Maybe I should work for Air Canada :).
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
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Probably a question of crossed terminology. I found this on the AskThePilot site:

This nose-down command can last upwards of ten seconds, Boeing says, and can repeat at five-second intervals, whether in manual flight or with the autopilot engaged. If and when this happens, the stabilizer trim itself gives no indication that it’s moving. All the crew knows is that the plane is nosing over.
Sounds like a nightmare.
 

VIBC

Electoral Member
Mar 3, 2019
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... the "hard landing" a month ago caused visible damage.

"Hard Landing" - the ultimate euphemism. It has caused everything from crushed vertebrae to physical loss of an engine and more, leading to destruction of the whole aircraft with everyone aboard.

The idea that a controlling computer could randomly reboot is mind boggling.
 

Mowich

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Dec 25, 2005
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Eagle Creek
Kudos to Marc Garneau for his clear, concise and understandable explanation of why Canada grounded the planes today. So very refreshing to listen to someone who knows what they are talking about and have the ability to explain their decisions in a straight forward manner. Wish he would come over from the Dark Side - he'd be a great addition to our party.
 

VIBC

Electoral Member
Mar 3, 2019
673
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Kudos to Marc Garneau for his clear, concise and understandable explanation of why Canada grounded the planes today. So very refreshing to listen to someone who knows what they are talking about and have the ability to explain their decisions in a straight forward manner. Wish he would come over from the Dark Side - he'd be a great addition to our party.

Must be the party that wouldn't put public safety ahead of corporate interests until it's embarrassed into it. Marc Garneau was declaring complete confidence in the aircraft when it was obvious that it just may have a serious problem. He was at least 2 days late in acting, second only to the country with the corporation that designs & builds the plane.
 

Curious Cdn

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 22, 2015
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Kudos to Marc Garneau for his clear, concise and understandable explanation of why Canada grounded the planes today. So very refreshing to listen to someone who knows what they are talking about and have the ability to explain their decisions in a straight forward manner. Wish he would come over from the Dark Side - he'd be a great addition to our party.
The truth is before the grounding, Canadian carriers were running out of places to land in the World. No one wanted them in their airspace. Garneau was almost last to the party. Sunwing beat him to it, for God sake.