Will Tump Tear up NAFTA???

coldstream

on dbl secret probation
Oct 19, 2005
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Canada no longer assembles cars.

Gee, I was just by the Ford Oakville Assembly Complex (2km down the street from where I live) where one new model (the Lincoln Nautilus), one re-designed model (the Ford Edge) and two older models (the Ford Flex and the Lincoln MKT) are coming off the assembly line as I post.

I guess that they didn't get Coldstream's memo, nor did the GM plant in Oshawa, the Honda plant in Alliston, the Toyota plants in Cambridge and Woodstock, the Chrysler plants in Brampton and Windsor, the General Dynamics armoured vehicle plant in London, the Cami plant in Ingersoll orthevarious Magna plants making pretty much fully assembled cars for the likes of BMW and Mercedes.

Try again Coldstream and stick to something that you know.


The last auto assembly plants built in Canada were the Honda and Toyota facilities in the 1980s. There has been a steady elimination facilities in Ontario and Quebec ever since. GMs St. Therese and Scarborough Plants were demolished in the 1990s and nothing new has been built to replace them. The ones that are left often draw supplies from south of the border, or south of their border.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
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Are you sure dairy farmers are all that upset as they get access to a whole new range of products that enhance profits. There is not going to be identifiers on the shelves so they will be the same product. Should they suffer losses the Gov will 'fix it' at year end tax time.
The best we can do in trade wars with the US is to get molested as little as possible.
 

MHz

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The last auto assembly plants built in Canada were the Honda and Toyota facilities in the 1980s. There has been a steady elimination facilities in Ontario and Quebec ever since. GMs St. Therese and Scarborough Plants were demolished in the 1990s and nothing new has been built to replace them. The ones that are left often draw supplies from south of the border, or south of their border.
They were never Canadian companies to begin with, back then goods could be produced in Canada cheaper than other places. When it came time to build a new plant that would be in service for 50 years another country was chosen. If Canada expected a subsidiary carried a 'forever' clause they didn't read the contracts.

Since none of them lose any money or their job the tears are most likely alligator tears that is meant to save them from the effects of a mob realizing the person standing in front of them has lied to them and stolen as much as possible from them.


Global vehicle output never declined, just the places they were being build. Canada became an importer rather than a supplier. As far as I am aware Ford Bronco is still to be built in the US so Canadians and Americans should only drive Broncos. Vanity and a natural desire to have something unique would spawn an after-market industry that would supply the parts that replace the body and motor to a v-16 and a carbon fiber body that weighs 10lbs and has a drag lower than 0.20. Nobody is forcing people to buy imports over something that would be called 'the People's Car'.


Canada can get a jump start on electric motors and controllers where production will use those designs. The wingtips on planes these days is from the notch that was put in the Arrow wing that allowed it go supersonic, today you get a few miles per ton of fuel at higher speeds. A 'tire change' will have the option of having a new motor.brake assembly installed at the same time. With the tire being pre-mounted on rims the changeover is faster if the new motor assembly is chosen. Warranty runs out about the time new tires are needed. Have the batteries and controller modular as will and opening the trunk will allow the 6ft long assembly to be pulled out and a new one pushed in in less than 15 minutes, (5 minutes at the 'corner gas station')
 

Curious Cdn

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Feb 22, 2015
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The last auto assembly plants built in Canada were the Honda and Toyota facilities in the 1980s. There has been a steady elimination facilities in Ontario and Quebec ever since. GMs St. Therese and Scarborough Plants were demolished in the 1990s and nothing new has been built to replace them. The ones that are left often draw supplies from south of the border, or south of their border.
Wrong. The Ford plant 2 kms from my house was gutted and re-built circa 2006 for $1 billion and was further upgraded in 2012 for another $700 million to produce global, multiplatform crossover vehicles. The old buildings survive but the machinery inside is state-of-the-art 21st century gear.

I'm sure that there are other examples like that around Ontario like the red-hot Woodstock Toyota plant, opened in 2004 that produce a shyte pile of Rav4s shipped around the world, (like Ford does from Oakville).

Do your homework. You make political statement on here based on your prejudices and other foo-foo dust.
 

MHz

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Mar 16, 2007
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For Saudi crowd control or domestic use?


How much for the back-seat driver gun-turrent and 10 ply tires?
 

Curious Cdn

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Feb 22, 2015
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For Saudi crowd control or domestic use?
How much for the gun-turrent and 10 ply tires?
The Toyota RAV4 from Woodstock competes directly against those.

The Ford plant's output from Oakille are higher end vehicles that compete against Range Rovers and BMW X5s (after a fashion for the latter).
 

MHz

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Ford isn't owned and operated by Canadians are they, compared to the Bronco division. A body like that on a Bronco chassis for about as little as you get and parts are available forever as are 'upgrades'.
Ontario has a few token hemp farms, they get tapped yet?
 

Curious Cdn

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Feb 22, 2015
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Ford isn't owned and operated by Canadians are they, compared to the Bronco division. A body like that on a Bronco chassis for about as little as you get and parts are available forever as are 'upgrades'.
Ontario has a few token hemp farms, they get tapped yet?
Well. They WILL be looking for ways to increase the North American content, now.
 

Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
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I realize it's probably not fair but due to several incidents involving Justin, I don't feel I can trust him as far as I can throw him. As far as the LNG thing goes I just heard mention today that his "$40 billion" and "10000 jobs" are an exaggeration. I believe I heard from a separate source that somewhere between $20 and $30 billion are closer to the truth. I guess when he flitted off to Cuba for Xmas holidays at taxpayer's expense, "the handwriting was on the wall" about him. Very important man!




And what is your source? Unless you can provide one then the $40 billion stands. And what has going to Cuba got to do with anything? Canada has never followed the US lead on Cuba and that goes back to the 1960s.
 

Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
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Edmonton
They were never Canadian companies to begin with, back then goods could be produced in Canada cheaper than other places. When it came time to build a new plant that would be in service for 50 years another country was chosen. If Canada expected a subsidiary carried a 'forever' clause they didn't read the contracts.

Since none of them lose any money or their job the tears are most likely alligator tears that is meant to save them from the effects of a mob realizing the person standing in front of them has lied to them and stolen as much as possible from them.


Global vehicle output never declined, just the places they were being build. Canada became an importer rather than a supplier. As far as I am aware Ford Bronco is still to be built in the US so Canadians and Americans should only drive Broncos. Vanity and a natural desire to have something unique would spawn an after-market industry that would supply the parts that replace the body and motor to a v-16 and a carbon fiber body that weighs 10lbs and has a drag lower than 0.20. Nobody is forcing people to buy imports over something that would be called 'the People's Car'.


Actually so far as automobiles are concerned there is no such thing as purely national vehicle in Canada or the US unless it is a Tesla. Parts come from all over the world. I'm betting even the Ford Bronco you mention will have parts that come from Canada and Mexico.
 

JLM

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And what is your source? Unless you can provide one then the $40 billion stands. And what has going to Cuba got to do with anything? Canada has never followed the US lead on Cuba and that goes back to the 1960s.


Nothing except charging his holidays and all the frills to the tax payer.
 

MHz

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And what has going to Cuba got to do with anything? Canada has never followed the US lead on Cuba and that goes back to the 1960s.
Really? For having 'all that freedom' we have done very little with it.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada–Cuba_relations
History

Canada established diplomatic relations with Cuba in 1945, and maintained uninterrupted diplomatic relations following the Cuban Revolution in 1959.[1] Cuba was the first country in the Caribbean selected by Canada for a diplomatic mission.[1]
Relations were especially warm in the 1970s and 1980s during the time when Pierre Elliot Trudeau was the Prime Minister of Canada. Trudeau spent three days in Cuba and sparked a lifelong friendship with Fidel Castro.[2] The visit was also the first by a Western nation to Cuba since 1960.[2]
Fidel Castro was among Pierre Trudeau's pallbearers at his funeral in 2000.[3]
Canadian-Cuban business ventures

In 1994, a joint venture was formed between the Cuban Nickel Union and the Canadian firm Sherritt International, which operates a mining and processing plant on the island in Moa.[4] A second enterprise, Cobalt Refinery Co. Inc., was created in Alberta for nickel refining.
There are in total 85 Canadian companies and subsidiaries operating in Cuba, including brewer Labatt Breweries.
Criticism of U.S. policy

Canada has been critical of the U.S. trade embargo against Cuba, and strongly objected to the Helms-Burton Act. In 1996 Foreign Affairs Minister Lloyd Axworthy stated: "Canada shares the U.S. objectives of improving human rights standards and moving to more representative government in Cuba. But we are concerned that the Helms-Burton Act takes the wrong approach. That is why we have been working with other countries to uphold the principles of international law".[5][6]
In 1996 a Private Member's Bill was introduced, but not made law, in the Canadian parliament; this law called the Godfrey-Milliken Bill was in response to the extraterritoriality of the Helms-Burton Act.[7][8] Godfrey-Milliken was essentially a parody, and would have allowed descendants of United Empire Loyalists who fled the American Revolution to be able to reclaim land and property that was confiscated by the American government in the 1700s.
Canada has also protested U.S. preclearance customs agents in Canadian airports who tried to catch American citizens traveling to Cuba in defiance of U.S. law.[9]

(in part)


1994 is the first investment by Canada and next to nothing since then. Riches for the west rather than help for the locals.


https://www.canada-usblog.com/2017/...anadas-foreign-extraterritorial-measures-act/


It is legal under Canadian law for Canadian persons, including Canadian corporation, branches of U.S. companies and subsidiaries of U.S. companies to do business with Cuba. Canadian persons and Canadians outside Canada may sell goods and services to Cuba, with the exception of goods covered by Canada’s export control and economic sanctions laws. For example, there are restrictions under Canadian laws relating to the sale of U.S. origin goods to Cuba. Because it is legal under Canadian law to sell goods and services to Cuba and Canada is a sovereign country, the sanctions under U.S. anti-Cuba laws pose a dilemma under Canadian law. The interplay between the U.S. anti-Cuba laws and Canadian law creates a “Catch 22” situation for certain Canadian organizations.
For example, Canada’s Foreign Extraterritorial Measures Act (FEMA) creates requirements and reporting obligations in the context of certain international trading activities. FEMA is also known as Canada’s “blocking” legislation as it was enacted in 1985 to block the extra-territorial application of foreign laws to Canadian business. More specifically, FEMA was enacted to block the extra-territorial application of United States anti-Cuba laws to Canadian corporations.
Under FEMA, where Canada’s Attorney General is of the opinion that another country’s laws or rulings (its measures) may adversely affect Canadian interests in relation to international trade or commerce, he/she may issue an order prohibiting any person in Canada from complying with those laws or rulings. Only one such order has been issued, the order issued in respect of the United States anti-Cuba laws (the Foreign Extraterritorial Measures (United States) Order, 1992 – the “FEMA United States Order”).


https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1016/S1449-4035(05)70052-7
Abstract
This analysis reassesses Canada’s Cuba policy by challenging the prevailing view that
it has been largely independent of the US. The thesis posited here is that despite its
opposition to the US’ Helms-Burton legislation (which seeks to increase economic
pressures on the Cuban economy by penalising foreigners who conduct business with
the island) the Canadian government has been pursuing a Cuba strategy which closely
converges with the Americans, and this has been particularly evident since the late
1990s. This argument is made through a discussion of the following themes: Canada’s
support for US hegemony; its shared interest with the US in protecting the global
trading regime; its desire to defend its trading relationship with the US; its support
for the US’ position in the Organization of American States
vis a vis
Cuba; and its
commercial competition with the US in Cuba.
Introduction
Historically, Canadian foreign policy towards Latin America and the
Caribbean has largely been interpreted as mirroring or converging
with US hegemonic interests in the region. However, in its relationship
with Cuba, Ottawa has seemingly diverged from this path, preferring
instead, as its official policy declares, “engagement” through trade and
diplomacy, rather than isolation, the decades old American strategy.
Some Canada-Cuba scholars, such as John Kirk and Peter McKenna,
have interpreted this as Canada having a Cuba policy largely indepen
-
dent of the United States (though one which waxes and wanes in terms
of our cordiality with the Cubans.)
1
Seeming to confirm this view was
the Chrétien government’s actions in challenging the US on the 1996
Cuban Liberty and Democratic Solidarity Act
(US Congress 1996), popularly
known as the Helms-Burton Bill. Part of the cornucopia of American
policies aimed at unseating the Castro administration, this legislation
was specifically designed to increase economic pressures on the Cuban
economy by penalising foreigners, including Canadians, who conduct
business with the island. Denouncing the statute as extraterritorial
interference, Ottawa enacted a series of legal and diplomatic counter-
measures against it to protect its entrepreneurs and commercial inter
-
ests in Cuba
.
The Helms-Burton Bill and Canada’s Cuba Policy -
125
In the eyes of many observers, the Canadian response to Helms-
Burton was in line with its historical approach to the island, that is,
marching to different drummer from than that of the United States.
However, countervailing legislation against the American bill notwith
-
standing, it will be argued here that this interpretation is overly opti
-
mistic in terms of the independence accorded to Canadian actions
towards the island. While historically there have been ostensible
differences between the Canadian and US approaches, there have also
been many important and fundamental points of convergence, and
these have been deepening. This convergence, while always present
has become increasingly obvious since the late 90s. Surprisingly too,
it gained momentum under the same Canadian Prime Minister who
officially inaugurated “constructive engagement” with the Cubans and
who seemed willing to confront the Americans on Helms-Burton.
By shedding light on the growing parallelism between Ottawa’s
and Washington’s approach to Havana, a more comprehensive picture
of Canada’s Cuba policy emerges. Focusing only on Canada’s alleged
“engagement” with the Cubans, and arguing that this therefore speaks
of its autonomy from the US, does not explain satisfactorily the
increasing contradictions and conflict evident in Canada’s dealing with
the Castro government
(in part)


We are under America's thumb more than Cuba is, don't that make you proud?
 

MHz

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Nothing except charging his holidays and all the frills to the tax payer.
Perhaps Canada should come up with something so Canadians want to vacation in Canada. We could save a lot of money if we ditched NATO, we could all vacation in Cuba then.
 

Twin_Moose

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Apr 17, 2017
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Actually so far as automobiles are concerned there is no such thing as purely national vehicle in Canada or the US unless it is a Tesla. Parts come from all over the world. I'm betting even the Ford Bronco you mention will have parts that come from Canada and Mexico.

I'm betting Tesla is buying parts from other countries as well
 

MHz

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The point is we need permission from the US for everything we do. The US takes their orders from the World Bank so who owns us?
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
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And what is your source? Unless you can provide one then the $40 billion stands. And what has going to Cuba got to do with anything? Canada has never followed the US lead on Cuba and that goes back to the 1960s.


The source was CBC radio or T.V. and the rest of your post makes absolutely no sense. Justin ACTUALLY did spend Xmas in Cuba one year at our expense. Live with it!
 

coldstream

on dbl secret probation
Oct 19, 2005
5,160
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Chillliwack, BC
Wrong. The Ford plant 2 kms from my house was gutted and re-built circa 2006 for $1 billion and was further upgraded in 2012 for another $700 million to produce global, multiplatform crossover vehicles. The old buildings survive but the machinery inside is state-of-the-art 21st century gear.

I'm sure that there are other examples like that around Ontario like the red-hot Woodstock Toyota plant, opened in 2004 that produce a shyte pile of Rav4s shipped around the world, (like Ford does from Oakville).

Do your homework. You make political statement on here based on your prejudices and other foo-foo dust.


Re-built NOT built.

None of the major manufacturers such as BMW, Mercedes Benz, Audi/VW, Hyundai, which have invested billions in assembly plants over the last 2 decades, have moved anything to Canada. Why would they. They would be punished by American trade authorities. The number of auto sector jobs in Canada has decreased from over a 160,000 to around 115,000 over the last 2 decades. That is a 1/3 decrease that is almost all from transferred production rather than technological efficiencies.

Toyotas Woodstock Facility was built beginning in 2005. It was the first 'green field' assembly plant built in Canada in 20 years. It is now almost 15 year old and NO other assembly plants have been built or are planned since. That's not much of record of vibrancy in the industry. It is, in fact, just holding on. You should do a little more research yourself CC.

MCA-FTA is bound to accelerate the trend.
 

Curious Cdn

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Feb 22, 2015
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Re-built NOT built.
None of the major manufacturers such as BMW, Mercedes Benz, Audi/VW, Hyundai, which have invested billions in assembly plants over the last 2 decades, have moved anything to Canada. Why would they. They would be punished by American trade authorities. The number of auto sector jobs in Canada has decreased from over a 160,000 to around 115,000 over the last 2 decades. That is a 1/3 decrease that is almost all from transferred production rather than technological efficiencies.
Toyotas Woodstock Facility was built beginning in 2005. It was the first 'green field' assembly plant built in Canada in 20 years. It is now almost 15 year old and NO other assembly plants have been built or are planned since. That's not much of record of vibrancy in the industry. It is, in fact, just holding on. You should do a little more research yourself CC.
MCA-FTA is bound to accelerate the trend.
Do you know why they don't build high-end, complex vehicles in the US? The workers there are substandard and can't do complex builds without producing junk. The is a short but elite club of countries where they put together complex builds: Germany, Britain, Canada, Japan, Sweden, (increasingly, S.Korea) and that's about it. They don't not build high end, complex automobiles in Mexico, China, the USA, Spain, Italy (except for the hand-made exotics), France, Slovakia, Russia, Indua, Brazil, etc.