Will Canada sabotage climate talks?

[AnnaG]

I cannot argue your point that the funding is not enough.
Indeed I would tend to agree with you on that.
My original point is that Harpo has funded R&D more than any other Federal Government.
That was my only point.

I am tired of going around and around in an ever increasing spiral of rhetoric with Tonnington as it is obvious he simply refuses to accept what I see as self evident fact.
However since you raise the question of the use or purpose of increased infrastructure funding I will give my opinion on what is happening.

Be aware that I don't disagree with either you or Tonnington on probably the majority of issues facing scientific research in Canada.
I simply disputed funding.

Here is what I think is happening and here is why I think Harper is increasing infrastructure improvements to research institutions.

Infrastructure to Universities is a Provincial responsibility and not a Federal one.
Any spending on infrastructure, equipment, labs and so on should be Provincial or private.
So why is Harper intruding in an area which is primarily the jurisdiction of the Provinces and should be no business of his?

He's desparate for the image of trying to help the economy? It's SOP for the Canadian federal government to interfere in provincial affairs? Just a couple of guesses.

Keep in mind almost all of your links and quotes are either from researchers or from the union representing the researchers.
You will very rarely find a quote from the research institution itself.
Also keep in mind that those folks have a vested interest in whats best for them.

I realize that, but you bringing it up makes me think that perhaps the money for research is partially being diverted to pad the pockets of administrative people. Canucks seem to love heavy administration.
I remember, for example, that before Harpy boosted funding for the military, we had about 63,000 people in the military and 200+ change were top brass. If Canada had matched the US for top brass per capita we would have had 9 top brass.

The union is purely political and couldn't care less about efficiency and success in research.
All it cares about is job security and increasing benefits to its members.
So job security for researchers and increased pay and benefits certainly are the objective of the researchers themselves and the union supporting them.
But not necessarily the research institution itself or the Governments be it Provincial or Federal.

We know from your and Tonningtons links that block grant funding for some research projects will be cut $113 million.
I could point out that if the funding under Harpers net tenure less the $113 million is still greater than the Liberal funding over the equivalent period than net block grant research funding is still higher under Harper.

Granted. (pun intended)
But you wanted to know about infrastructure.

We also see from your and Tonningtons links that New research chair funding is increased $160 million.
The Canadian Foundation for Innovation got $488.5 million for research infrastructure improvements.
And that Masters and Doctoral research scholarships were increased by $71.2 million.

So the Harper Government has obviously held long talks with both the Provincial Government's and all the research institutions.
Obviously they are all in agreement or the Federal Government would not be allowed to intrude in ares of Provincial jurisdiction.
$113 million in funding that the Fed's, the Provinces and the research institutions all see as deadwood or non-productive research funding are cut.
The unions and the researchers as a block are all up in arms and fire off umpteen press releases to sympathetic media outlets.

The $160 million in increased funding for research chairs is NOT guaranteed to Canadian researchers.
It is going to be allocated to the best and most qualified researchers money can buy regardless of where in the world they come from.

That doesn't explain why scientists like Sekaly goes border hopping to continue his research into AIDS CanadaResearchFunding.org » Top AIDS researcher ditches Canada (partly) and no one will replace him.

A good plan I figure and one undoubtedly agreed upon by the Fed's , the Provinces and the research institutions.
Again the union and the Canadian researchers are up in arms.
First $113 million in cuts and now $160 million in funding to the most internationally qualified researchers (read not very many Canadians).

Why Canadians aren't the top researchers in many fields is BECAUSE they are underfunded.

Next up is $488.5 million in research infrastructure improvements.
There is no way the Fed's could fund this way without a total buy in from the Provinces and the research Universities themselves.
After all it's not Federal jurisdiction.
Ultimately my guess is that the research Universities themselves pushed hard for this.
They want the new libraries, the state of the art research labs, the newest and best research software and hardware, in fact they desperately need it.
They don't need warm bodies because they can create researchers on an as needed basis at will.
It's what they do.

That's definitely a possibility.

Furthermore the $160 million increase in research chairs isn't that helpful unless you can recruit the best and the brightest from around the world.
Paycheque's and staff funding is one thing but the best and the brightest need modern labs and up to date research equipment or they just will not come.
Thus the new funding requirements for equipment and labs becomes more important than research chair funding itself.

Another yet another howl goes up from the union and the the Canadian researchers and the unionist left wing media.
How dare you cut some of our outdated and moribund funding and massively ramp up spending for labs and modern equipment.
And to allow top notch research scientists from around the world compete for Canadian research funding....It's an outrage.

In the meantime, perfectly good medical doctors from around the world come here in search of a job and get it; taxi driving and pizza delivering; because the crappy bureaucracy won't allow them to practise and our nurses leave for the States because they're paid there.

As for the $71 million increase in research scholarships.
Every bit helps.

My guess is that it the cuts needed to be done.
Its also my guess that the Federal Government. the Provincial Governments and the research institutions themselves were pretty much in agreement on the whole deal.

And in the meantime, Harpy & Co. splurge wads of cash on tv ads denigrating Iggy and boasting about how good they're doing with this "Action Plan" of theirs, geniuses that they are.

So there is my opinion on what happened AnnaG.
Sorry it was so long winded.
And yes I still consider it a net R&D funding increase .

Trex

No worries, Trex, I agree with a lot of it.

 

[AnnaG]

Like I said,most alternative energy outfits are owned by big oil and gas,thats wind,hydrothermal,bio etc.

Most? Evidence?

I work on lots of their projects,one of western Canada's biggest wind farms is a beers drive away from me.Try and be as green as you want but shell,conoco philips and the rest of the big players all have a stake in green technology and chances are you have shares with them.;-)

Probability is that you are wrong and we haven't invested in any oil company holdings. As I said, we invest AFTER we investIGATE.

So I would have to say Canada's doing excellent when it comes to the environment,were not building one dirty coal plant a week like they are in China.

Not according to the OECD and I don't give a crap about comparing Canada to whoever else. It's irrelevant. We could do better; LOTS better. Maintain your own yard before you start nitpicking at other countries for their lack of maintenance.

I know what the laws are like here,I also know Alberta will be the leader in energy and technological innovations regarding all forms of energy for many years to come.
B.C. does however export allmost 93% of it's coal to China.8O
But it is clean coal,they mix it with their dirty shi* to make it useable.

Yup. BC is Canadian, or did you forget about that?

 

[Kakato]

Most? Evidence?
Probability is that you are wrong and we haven't invested in any oil company holdings. As I said, we invest AFTER we investIGATE.

Not according to the OECD and I don't give a crap about comparing Canada to whoever else. It's irrelevant. We could do better; LOTS better. Maintain your own yard before you start nitpicking at other countries for their lack of maintenance.
Yup. BC is Canadian, or did you forget about that?

Maintain our own yard?
You should get out more,you cant take a pee off a road without a permit from 8 levels of government,federal and provincial these days unless your a farmer.

I know because I used to have to fill them out and I also got the fine if someone accidentally dumped a liter of water off the lease or ROW.

Yet China is such a shining example of good clean air and environmental practices and procedures.

Stop with the guilt trip allready,those of us that work in the industry know how good Canada is doing and dont need envirofoilers trying to stir up **** that doesnt exist and I notice most of the malice is meant for Alberta,were used to it.

Why do you think lots of companies go overseas to exploit resources?
Because of lax enviro laws.
Sorry but I try and be progressive and thats why I have seen things improve regarding anything that has to be done to the earth,instead of just bitching about how bad Canada's doing according to the lobbyists that would lose their gravey train job if they didnt keep spreading the fear about stuff they dont have a clue about.:roll:

I know I can still drink the water out in the river here at the headwaters of the continental divide and the air is pure.
I know you can also drink any water north of Hudsons bay,even the stuff laying on the tundra,its as pure as the day is long and the worlds largest fresh water supply.
Yup,were doing bad.:roll:
We should give china,Moe Strong and Al gore some billions of dollars for carbon credits to make it up to the rest of the world for our pollutin ways.:lol:

 

[AnnaG]

Maintain our own yard?
You should get out more,you cant take a pee off a road without a permit from 8 levels of government,federal and provincial these days unless your a farmer.

I know because I used to have to fill them out and I also got the fine if someone accidentally dumped a liter of water off the lease or ROW.

Water Pollution - Canada Takes Crap for Flushing Raw Sewage into the Ocean

Court Victory Forces Canada to Report Pollution Data for Mines | MiningWatch

Canada’s Oil Sands: Pollution Delivery to the Great Lakes? - Environmental Communication Options/Huff Strategy



Increasing Majority Call Canada’s Pollution Laws Inadequate

Yet China is such a shining example of good clean air and environmental practices and procedures.

Again, I don't give a crap about China when our own back yard is messy.

Stop with the guilt trip allready,those of us that work in the industry know how good Canada is doing and dont need envirofoilers trying to stir up **** that doesnt exist and I notice most of the malice is meant for Alberta,were used to it.

Quit assuming you know what I am saying and pay attention. What I am saying has nothing about guilt trips. It has to do with tuning up our own activities before we snivel about how everyone else is acting.

Why do you think lots of companies go overseas to exploit resources?
Because of lax enviro laws.
Sorry but I try and be progressive and thats why I have seen things improve regarding anything that has to be done to the earth,instead of just bitching about how bad Canada's doing according to the lobbyists that would lose their gravey train job if they didnt keep spreading the fear about stuff they dont have a clue about.:roll:

I know I can still drink the water out in the river here at the headwaters of the continental divide and the air is pure.
I know you can also drink any water north of Hudsons bay,even the stuff laying on the tundra,its as pure as the day is long and the worlds largest fresh water supply.
Yup,were doing bad.:roll:[/quote[Get a grip. Try drinking untreated water from the Great Lakes, Burrard Inlet, etc. How much industrial activity is north of Hudson Bay or upwater from the headwaters of where you are at?

We should give china,Moe Strong and Al gore some billions of dollars for carbon credits to make it up to the rest of the world for our pollutin ways.:lol:

My reply to that is it's an inane comment.

 

[Tonington]

Again, I don't give a crap about China when our own back yard is messy.

Yeah...I don't really get that tack either. I think most Canadians would probably agree that we should not be using China as the meter stick we compare ourselves with...on a whole host of issues.