Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Liberals
- Thread starter Colin
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Re: RE: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about
It doesn't matter one bit how you see it Jay...it's how the law was written and is to be interpretted...
If you don't like it, then have your Premier propose a constitutional amendment...
Jay said:
It doesn't matter one bit how you see it Jay...it's how the law was written and is to be interpretted...
If you don't like it, then have your Premier propose a constitutional amendment...
Re: RE: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about
Health Care was a provincial juristiction. It still is, btw. The provinces signed the National Health Care act, o0n the baiss that the feds would fund 50% of it.
Vanni Fucci said:
Health Care was a provincial juristiction. It still is, btw. The provinces signed the National Health Care act, o0n the baiss that the feds would fund 50% of it.
RE: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe
I would have to say the onus is on you on that one...
Nothing I can see in the distribution of powers shows the feds having anything to do with health...or health like concerns except Marine Hospitals...
I would have to say the onus is on you on that one...
Nothing I can see in the distribution of powers shows the feds having anything to do with health...or health like concerns except Marine Hospitals...
Re: RE: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about
Everything both of you need to know should be found here:http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/medicare/chaover.htm
Vanni Fucci said:
Everything both of you need to know should be found here:http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/medicare/chaover.htm
Re: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe
and this...
http://www.solon.org/Constitutions/Canada/English/ca_1867.html
and this...
http://www.solon.org/Constitutions/Canada/English/ca_1867.html
Re: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe
http://dsp-psd.communication.gc.ca/Collection/CP32-79-12-2002E.pdf
http://dsp-psd.communication.gc.ca/Collection/CP32-79-12-2002E.pdf
Re: RE: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about
Actually, how the health care system is delivered in a province is a provincial matter, as long as they comply with the Health Care Act, although with the recent SC decision, that will obviously be subject to change.
What has happened over the years is that the feds were supposed to be 50/50 payers of the system, which dropped to as low as about 12% in the mid 90's when the leftist hero Martin cut health care transfer payments to the provinces. It is back up to about 20% now, but still much less than the original commitment by the feds, and what was originally proposed by Tommy Douglas. However, the feds have used these payments as a sword over the provinces head when any kind of changes have been proposed. Again, with the SC decision, this will change too.
Education and Health Care are provincial responsibilities, as long as they comply with the national standards. How the delivery of these programs is done is provincial, not federal, responsibility.
Vanni Fucci said:
Actually, how the health care system is delivered in a province is a provincial matter, as long as they comply with the Health Care Act, although with the recent SC decision, that will obviously be subject to change.
What has happened over the years is that the feds were supposed to be 50/50 payers of the system, which dropped to as low as about 12% in the mid 90's when the leftist hero Martin cut health care transfer payments to the provinces. It is back up to about 20% now, but still much less than the original commitment by the feds, and what was originally proposed by Tommy Douglas. However, the feds have used these payments as a sword over the provinces head when any kind of changes have been proposed. Again, with the SC decision, this will change too.
Education and Health Care are provincial responsibilities, as long as they comply with the national standards. How the delivery of these programs is done is provincial, not federal, responsibility.
RE: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe
As Blue stated (hmmm - I'm agreeing with him, this has to stop)
There is nothing wrong per se with the division of authority, power, jurisdiction on heathcare. The federal government has a roll to ensure that all Canadians have equal access to healthcare, just the same as the feds have a roll to set (very broad) standards for primary and secondary education. The problems come with how the Feds excercise this roll. For the last severl years, the feds have pursued a strategy of saying that more money is available, but not until the provinces can agree on reforms to address inequities in service delivery and reign in escallating healthcare costs. Basically, they are using their spending power to coerce the provinces into not just dialogue, but agreement on healthcare reform.
It is true, that during the 90's the federal liberals drastically reduced transfer payments to the provinces in order to balance the federal budget without massively increasing taxes. I understand that many resent this, I don't think it was wonderful either, but I would ask which of the 3 alternatives is prefered.
1. cut transfer payments.
2. increase taxes
3. continue deficit spending.
I know - someone is going to say the budget could be balanced by cutting waste and corruption, but quite frankly, in the early 90's, after the Mulroney era, debt servicing consumed approximately 40% of the federal budget. Transfer payments for healthcare and education consumed approximately 30% and the remaining 30% was consumed by everything else that the federal gov spends money on, including defense, foreign aid, CPP, EI, customs and immigration, the RCMP, agriculture etc. It is simply not possible to erase a huge deficit without denting the largest areas of spending.
As Blue stated (hmmm - I'm agreeing with him, this has to stop)
There is nothing wrong per se with the division of authority, power, jurisdiction on heathcare. The federal government has a roll to ensure that all Canadians have equal access to healthcare, just the same as the feds have a roll to set (very broad) standards for primary and secondary education. The problems come with how the Feds excercise this roll. For the last severl years, the feds have pursued a strategy of saying that more money is available, but not until the provinces can agree on reforms to address inequities in service delivery and reign in escallating healthcare costs. Basically, they are using their spending power to coerce the provinces into not just dialogue, but agreement on healthcare reform.
It is true, that during the 90's the federal liberals drastically reduced transfer payments to the provinces in order to balance the federal budget without massively increasing taxes. I understand that many resent this, I don't think it was wonderful either, but I would ask which of the 3 alternatives is prefered.
1. cut transfer payments.
2. increase taxes
3. continue deficit spending.
I know - someone is going to say the budget could be balanced by cutting waste and corruption, but quite frankly, in the early 90's, after the Mulroney era, debt servicing consumed approximately 40% of the federal budget. Transfer payments for healthcare and education consumed approximately 30% and the remaining 30% was consumed by everything else that the federal gov spends money on, including defense, foreign aid, CPP, EI, customs and immigration, the RCMP, agriculture etc. It is simply not possible to erase a huge deficit without denting the largest areas of spending.
Re: RE: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about
Left stated it pretty good, so I guess we both agree. (Check the temp in Hell!! :wink:
However, cutting costs to health and education, while at the same time spending what has now evolved into billions of dollars on a gun registry, which I think we can all agree has some very serious flaws, is hard to take. Similarly, the mid to late 90's involved two other very expensive mismanagement issues, such as the HRDC billion dollar boondoggle and the Adscam issue. Add this to the amounts spent cancelling helicopter contracts, and while I may agree that cutting some health and eduction costs were necessary, the amounts could certainly have been reduced.
I think what really bothers me and others on the right is to have the feds cut the money to a program, and then insist on standards. That reeks of hypocrisy.
The other effect of all these cuts was to download these reductions to the provinces, which forced them to download a portion of this to the cities and municipalities. Now, in 2005, the Liberals are the big heros of giving money to cities and munis, after blaming the provinces. They basically created the problem, and now pat themselves on the back for "fixing" a problem.
Anyway, Left, glad we could agree on something.
LeftCoast said:
Left stated it pretty good, so I guess we both agree. (Check the temp in Hell!! :wink:
However, cutting costs to health and education, while at the same time spending what has now evolved into billions of dollars on a gun registry, which I think we can all agree has some very serious flaws, is hard to take. Similarly, the mid to late 90's involved two other very expensive mismanagement issues, such as the HRDC billion dollar boondoggle and the Adscam issue. Add this to the amounts spent cancelling helicopter contracts, and while I may agree that cutting some health and eduction costs were necessary, the amounts could certainly have been reduced.
I think what really bothers me and others on the right is to have the feds cut the money to a program, and then insist on standards. That reeks of hypocrisy.
The other effect of all these cuts was to download these reductions to the provinces, which forced them to download a portion of this to the cities and municipalities. Now, in 2005, the Liberals are the big heros of giving money to cities and munis, after blaming the provinces. They basically created the problem, and now pat themselves on the back for "fixing" a problem.
Anyway, Left, glad we could agree on something.
Re: RE: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about
How he got elected? Are you kidding? Do you have to even ask? What I am still puzzled about is how in blue blazes did Chretien keep getting elected PM for all those terms when it was obviously clear he had an element of unstability about him. The reasons President Bush got elected is obvious, here are a few:
- He stands by his convictions and does not flip-flop.
- He is commited to fighting terrorism.
- He's against killing an innocent unborn baby,
but is in favor of executing a convicted murderer.
- He's against changing our traditional definition of
marriage.
- He believes in lower taxes and lower government
spending and no welfare state.
- He's against gun control for the law abiding.
- He believes in "One Nation under God indivisible".
manda said:
How he got elected? Are you kidding? Do you have to even ask? What I am still puzzled about is how in blue blazes did Chretien keep getting elected PM for all those terms when it was obviously clear he had an element of unstability about him. The reasons President Bush got elected is obvious, here are a few:
- He stands by his convictions and does not flip-flop.
- He is commited to fighting terrorism.
- He's against killing an innocent unborn baby,
but is in favor of executing a convicted murderer.
- He's against changing our traditional definition of
marriage.
- He believes in lower taxes and lower government
spending and no welfare state.
- He's against gun control for the law abiding.
- He believes in "One Nation under God indivisible".
Re: RE: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about
Very good points. Does any of you on the left, or who hate Bush, have any examples of flip flops in the last election? Did he promise to do something, and not do it, or did he promise not to do something and then did it?
Please leave WMD out, that was not part of the last election. I am speaking only of the last election.
The beliefs and convictions of George Bush are very open and out there for all to see. Pity that the same cannot be said for Martin. He is a liar, obsessed with power at any costs.
Nascar_James said:
Very good points. Does any of you on the left, or who hate Bush, have any examples of flip flops in the last election? Did he promise to do something, and not do it, or did he promise not to do something and then did it?
Please leave WMD out, that was not part of the last election. I am speaking only of the last election.
The beliefs and convictions of George Bush are very open and out there for all to see. Pity that the same cannot be said for Martin. He is a liar, obsessed with power at any costs.
Re: RE: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about
Hmmm...of course it's a good thing to do what you say you'll do, yes...but then there's that whole lying his ass off to get into an illegal war thing...
Sorry, can't...he's a lying sack of shit who, with his entire cabinet, should be chained naked to a rock and left to be eaten by sand crabs...
Well I can't argue there...but I find Harper to be even more offensively so...so f*ck it...they can both kiss my ass...
bluealberta said:
Hmmm...of course it's a good thing to do what you say you'll do, yes...but then there's that whole lying his ass off to get into an illegal war thing...
bluealberta said:
Sorry, can't...he's a lying sack of shit who, with his entire cabinet, should be chained naked to a rock and left to be eaten by sand crabs...
bluealberta said:
Well I can't argue there...but I find Harper to be even more offensively so...so f*ck it...they can both kiss my ass...
Re: RE: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about
Like I said, Vanni, what in THE LAST ELECTION CAMPAIGN applies. Bush is out front, Martin is behind the curtain doing God knows what. Maybe what the Americans like about him is that his beliefs and convictions are plain to see, and people can actually decide about someone who has the strength of his convictions. Kerry, on the other hand, is very much like Martin, poll responses only.
Vanni Fucci said:
Like I said, Vanni, what in THE LAST ELECTION CAMPAIGN applies. Bush is out front, Martin is behind the curtain doing God knows what. Maybe what the Americans like about him is that his beliefs and convictions are plain to see, and people can actually decide about someone who has the strength of his convictions. Kerry, on the other hand, is very much like Martin, poll responses only.
Re: RE: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about
What does it matter that he stays the course...he's a f*cking war criminal blue...
"Yeah...good job on that there genocide Mr. President."
:roll:
bluealberta said:
What does it matter that he stays the course...he's a f*cking war criminal blue...
"Yeah...good job on that there genocide Mr. President."
:roll:
Re: RE: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about
Actually, according to the Haig, he is not a war criminal. I guess that does not mean anything to you.
Must be hard for you to actually see someone elected who stands by his beliefs and convictions. Thats okay, it will happen in Canada too, we are just a few years behind the US in our outlook. When we eventually change, which we will, where will you go then? Finland? Sweden? The Netherlands? or some other socialist country.
Vanni Fucci said:
Actually, according to the Haig, he is not a war criminal. I guess that does not mean anything to you.
Must be hard for you to actually see someone elected who stands by his beliefs and convictions. Thats okay, it will happen in Canada too, we are just a few years behind the US in our outlook. When we eventually change, which we will, where will you go then? Finland? Sweden? The Netherlands? or some other socialist country.
RE: Why you hate the Cons
Bush said, several times, that his tax cuts would help the poor more than the rich. That was a lie.
Bush said that tort reform would cut health care costs. That was a lie.
Bush said that he wasn't a liar. That was a lie.
Bush said that he was fighting terrorism. That was a lie.
Bush said, several times, that his tax cuts would help the poor more than the rich. That was a lie.
Bush said that tort reform would cut health care costs. That was a lie.
Bush said that he wasn't a liar. That was a lie.
Bush said that he was fighting terrorism. That was a lie.
Re: RE: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about
Oh is that right...you mean they had a war crimes tribunal, and I missed it?
As soon as Bush is no longer prez, and the first time he steps off American soil, he's f*cking done...
bluealberta said:
Oh is that right...you mean they had a war crimes tribunal, and I missed it?
As soon as Bush is no longer prez, and the first time he steps off American soil, he's f*cking done...
Re: RE: Why you hate the Cons
By putting the above statements forward as fact, you are a liar.
Reverend Blair said:
By putting the above statements forward as fact, you are a liar.