Why Don't You Bomb Yourself

[karrie]

Karrie, I cannot ever remember you posting your feelings about revulsion over the American hypocracy of talking constantly of peace while killing indescriminatly and in great numbers, so if hypocracy bothers you so much I would have expected you to live up to the ideal you claim to follow. Maybe I'v just missed all of your posts protesting the death of innocent women and children by starvation and war conducted by western coalition forces for you and I. If you have made posts to that effect please direct me to them. You also seem to have selective ideas about who is and is not morally bankrupt when it comes to genocide as well, I'm sure I'v missed that post as well. If you believe what you say you do why am I only aware of it because of this post expressing hatred of America, which as you must know is shared by the majority of the planets inhabitants.

Most of the planet hating the US isn't a justification either db... it's still just more racism. There was a time most of the US thought slavery was fine. That doesn't mean it wasn't racist.

I don't need to write posts ad nauseum expressing my disdain for the US's actions, because they're not up for debate, and the men on this site don't discuss the war, they debate it. I don't have a desire for hard core debate on all issues. I'm not about to debate with someone whether or not the US was wrong in this war, because they were. I don't need to make myself sick trying to tell them that. I don't need to spend my day rifling through articles about death and starvation and genocide to know what's going on in the Middle East is wrong.

Regardless of my own views on the war... my opinion stands, that it's not okay to express a desire to see innocent men women and children die over the choices of their government. And I'll leave it at that. Continue your hate speak if you must. But know that doing so takes away a HUGE amount of the validity of your cause.

 

[darkbeaver]

Americans are not a race so my hate for America is not racism. Some things cannot be done without hate, is it right to hate war? yes. Is it not also right to hate those who fund and conduct war? yes. There is nothing wrong with the correct use of hate. That's what it's for, and it's unavoidable in life, like it or not that's the way it is. But you probably don't believe in the good that has come from hate, do you?

 

[gerryh]

Americans are not a race so my hate for America is not racism. Some things cannot be done without hate, is it right to hate war? yes. Is it not also right to hate those who fund and conduct war? yes. There is nothing wrong with the correct use of hate. That's what it's for, and it's unavoidable in life, like it or not that's the way it is. But you probably don't believe in the good that has come from hate, do you?

But you don't hate war.....you have already stated that you prepare for war. What you "hate" is those going to war that you don't agree with. If you agreed with their reasons, you would support the war.

 

[unclepercy]

Most of the planet hating the US isn't a justification either db... it's still just more racism. There was a time most of the US thought slavery was fine. That doesn't mean it wasn't racist.

I don't need to write posts ad nauseum expressing my disdain for the US's actions, because they're not up for debate, and the men on this site don't discuss the war, they debate it. I don't have a desire for hard core debate on all issues. I'm not about to debate with someone whether or not the US was wrong in this war, because they were. I don't need to make myself sick trying to tell them that. I don't need to spend my day rifling through articles about death and starvation and genocide to know what's going on in the Middle East is wrong.

Regardless of my own views on the war... my opinion stands, that it's not okay to express a desire to see innocent men women and children die over the choices of their government. And I'll leave it at that. Continue your hate speak if you must. But know that doing so takes away a HUGE amount of the validity of your cause.

And I would be the dead one in DB's scenario. Bombing America is the rantings of a lunatic, one who has no perspective on what we have contributed to this world. I can assure you, DB, that if we go, you also go. My one consolation is that you will die. I will die. And it won't make a ripple in the hog waller. Well stated, Karrie.

Uncle

 

[darkbeaver]

Karrie never expressed her revulsion about the victims of American war in any of the threads I posted, not once that I can remember. But she did take the oportunity to defend the oppressors and accuse me of rascism, falsely.

Now there have been no restictions about what I post or I would have been informed.
I stick to the rules or I would be informed.

Everyone here is free to read them or not, if we do not want to respond to any thread that is a choice that you and I and everyone here is capable of making for themselves.

I have seen countless threads here that I considered mundane or frivilous, and I don't remember once stepping in to ruin anyones thing, especially with unfounded accusations of rascism

If war economic crisis, distaste for religion, disgust with corruption or any topic I post is not your thing simply exercise your privlages and don't engage.

I consider the matter closed unless there's to be official notice to the contrary. The OP was from a respected anti-war activist, get used to it, it's a dirty world and there are thousands being written everyday, more articles just like it and worse as the global tension and fear mounts. Hide from it if you want to but don't expect everyone to follow suit. goodnight

 

[gerryh]

anti-war activist my ass. Anti american war activist would be more precise.

 

[karrie]

Karrie never expressed her revulsion about the victims of American war in any of the threads I posted, not once that I can remember. But she did take the oportunity to defend the oppressors and accuse me of rascism, falsely.

You're right db... that was a misspeak, a poor extrapolation of your throwing genocide scenarios out in regards to the US... nuke em, etc. Eradicating a country's people is more like genocide, not racism. But what exactly is the word one would use to describe the mindset? That's where I pooched it and ended up with racism. genocidal? I don't know. I'm too tired tonight to care.

But this is why I don't talk politics with 'the big boys'.... it's always the nastiest, dirtiest threads.

I state my views too softly on most things apparently, and don't much care for the combativeness. Nor do I care for being called a hypocrite merely because I've avoided a topic due to its explosive, abusive nature.

 

[William Ashley]

"the U.S. should have bombed Auschwitz to halt the killing"

Funny comment,
Always trying to outdo your neighbours

(you have to picture it..)

I can only hope the idea was to use whatever force necisary as to stop it... perhaps it is just amodern notion on US air power and it's use as an endall to ... everything.


Perhaps we can hope that this isn't a latent threat against the walled up Gaza ghetto...

I think what people tend to forget is that war is a mind state, as long as the individual has conflict and opposition that illicits a militant response there is a breach of general peace.


Bush is the funniest serious minded person I've seen speak in a while.
It really does hurt to laugh sometimes, cause you just can't be sure if it was really a joke - I picture him as a type of Dr. Claw really.. he so desrves that cat.

That is not to say that he is evil, just that he has such a good evil disposition sometimes , with his security outfit following him everywhere... he just looks like someone that could do leather and is symbiont to James Dean.

As for all this "BOMB THE US"
genocide this genocide that etc..

or comments that end up being.. atleast the jews will always have the holocaust..

it's a profound occurance but the jews arn't the onlypeoples to have underwent genocide.. heck they condoned it and moses preached it against the edomites... remeber them always etc..

It goes back to was it Cyrus.. remember the greeks... etc..

 

[darkbeaver]

It is exactly that avoidance of these topics in the past that has lead to the conditions of today.
"Don't talk politics or religion" always the constant mantra of the priest and the politician and none of the rot can be changed in any way by avoiding the subjects. And to believe that they have no bearing on our dayly lives when in fact nothing else impacts our lives with greater reality than those subjects I concern myself with. There will be war and disease and famine, and the greatest part will be our doing, our responsibility and there is no hope of change unless we in the western world change because frankly it's our doing every bit of it. I am characterized as hating Americans well virtually every posting that I have made here is reserched written and published by those same Americnas that you idiots believe I blindly hate for no other reason it would seem than that I am envious of wealth and full of hate and hypocracy, frankly that is the rediculous unreasoning and insane. I was introduced and educated to the perils of the modern world by Americans who I have the deepest respect for.
They have worked all thier lives and lived with the condemnation of thier positions for decades, when you smear me you smear the most intelligent bravest individuals alive today. They speak out against greed and injustice and war, they warn of the carnage of the day and the global disaster that has begun and they name those responsible and what must be done to avoid that catastrophy and guess what, it's our stupid greed and ignorance that is the cause, not some desperately poor nation being pounded and poisoned while we sleep in peace with full bellys and pityfull little tacky desires of realizing the "American Dream" that is not anything but an inflicted nightmare on the defenceless and the poor. So I don't feel one bit bad for my views or my concerns. There is no place to hide from reality and that reality will not sleep untill it controls and owns every man woman and child on the face of this earth as it has promised to do for years while we sleep and live in realative opulence blaming the poor for misery inflicted by us. If you don't believe that we are the genocidal maniacs, you will surely become victims of that crime.
This is not a personal attack on anyone but if the shoe fits, wear it. If you don't want to face reality,stay away from my posts you obviously know how to hide from what is, in what is not.

 

[karrie]

You seem to be confusing how often I talk politics in my real life, with how often I DEBATE politics on the internet beaver. I owe you no quota of outrage, nor do I owe anyone else my time for them to sit and pick apart the way I feel about dead women and children. It's not up for debate. I don't HAVE to talk politics with you on here EVER, and to imply that I do have to, or my view is meaningless, is not a far cry from trying to force me not to talk politics.

 

[Outta here]

DB - I've admired your passion for your beliefs - many changes that have been desperately needed throughout history have been successfully brought about and fueled by just such passion. BUT there's an incredibly fine line between being passionate and being a zealot. Am I calling you a zealot? Not quite, but it's possible you're tap-dancing closer to that line than someone who wants to be taken seriously should be....

I too find it difficult to give you full credence for your anti-war views unless they apply globally. If war is wrong, it's WRONG. Not just wrong for some folks - even if in your view, they're the perpetrators. Using the very means you decry to solve the problem will only beget more of the same. History has borne this sad truth out far too often.

War imo, is the ultimate surrender of the human spirit to reach beyond what we think we know ... a refusal to search out or try new solutions to old problems. I've heard it said : "All attack is a cry for help". I believe this to be true - and quite applicable to your view on waging war against America. You have valid concerns, but not a valid solution. IMO.

 

[darkbeaver]

You seem to be confusing how often I talk politics in my real life, with how often I DEBATE politics on the internet beaver. I owe you no quota of outrage, nor do I owe anyone else my time for them to sit and pick apart the way I feel about dead women and children. It's not up for debate. I don't HAVE to talk politics with you on here EVER, and to imply that I do have to, or my view is meaningless, is not a far cry from trying to force me not to talk politics.

Thankyou Karrie, now you know exactly what I felt like when you tried to force me to shut-up.
We are even, forget the matter , it is of no consequence, pointless to continue where there is no prize, right. You don't have to do anything ever, except live with the decision, and niether do I. So just give it up and let it go.

 

[gerryh]

Thing is beaver, you don't advocate the abolition of war and greed, you advocate just changing the names of offenders. You advocate moving from the "right" to the "left" with no real changes in base behaviour. This "outlook" came through loud and clear with your

"Advocate for peace, march for peace, vote for peace, work for peace, pray for peace and prepare for war. "

As I pointed out, this is the same attitude of the "christian right" that you so despise. The attitude that has us where we are today. You are only advocating that we change masters, not that we change attitudes.

 

[darkbeaver]

DB - I've admired your passion for your beliefs - many changes that have been desperately needed throughout history have been successfully brought about and fueled by just such passion. BUT there's an incredibly fine line between being passionate and being a zealot. Am I calling you a zealot? Not quite, but it's possible you're tap-dancing closer to that line than someone who wants to be taken seriously should be....

I too find it difficult to give you full credence for your anti-war views unless they apply globally. If war is wrong, it's WRONG. Not just wrong for some folks - even if in your view, they're the perpetrators. Using the very means you decry to solve the problem will only beget more of the same. History has borne this sad truth out far too often.

War imo, is the ultimate surrender of the human spirit to reach beyond what we think we know ... a refusal to search out or try new solutions to old problems. I've heard it said : "All attack is a cry for help". I believe this to be true - and quite applicable to your view on waging war against America. You have valid concerns, but not a valid solution. IMO.

I have been anti-war all my life and continue to hope for an end to it through peacefull means, but there is a point when it is the last remaining action of self defence, everyone has the right to defend against agressive murderous assult by the commonly accepted laws of war codeified in the Geneva Convention. The Iraqis now full well with certainty what will happen to them if they do not defend themselves and the Palestinians have learned the same hard lesson. Resistance to agression is perfectly legal and when faced with the blind hatred of agression is the right of every human. I have watched the Palestinians denied thier own homes while being raped and brutalized and driven into smaller corners for thirty-five years that I can remember of the sixty they have endured the worst while they waited for the powers that be to grant them peace and security in thier own land. Do you expect them to wait patiently for the promised peace while they watch thier brothers and sisters fall day after day? When is the message writ clear enough on the wall for you? Similarly in that same thirty-five years I have watched men women and children murdered and dispossessed in never ending increasing numbers all over the world to the tune of what is estimated to be just short of two-hundred million people, and always thier death and misfortune was blamed on them, and the message from the machine has never changed, we are bringing peace and freedom and democracy, believe that if you want to, I don't. So peacefull means if at all possible. Is that at all possible? Not on your or life or mine. The post which originated this thread clearly points to the way the world thinks on these matters, we will all be dead ir imprisoned before that capitalist machine sheds one tear for the many murdered innocents. It cannot stop by itself and it will not listen to reason because it only has one reason for existance and one only, and it only has one method and that is war itself which has continued unabated since before I was a little boy. Believe me I want the wars to stop, and there bloody well may only be one remaining way to stop them.
The western elite led by the American empire have no intention of stopping the wars untill they have full spectrum domination and that is an addmission they have proudley made with thier own lips, these individuals are only barely human.How are we to even begin to stop that if even a post in an internet forum elicits such confused realization of the reality of the state of the global community? Those two-hundred million victims have surrendered thier spirits already in the futile hope that things would change, well I believe that they won't and that's all there is to it. Either we shut the machine off or it will shut the last little bit of democracy down forever. You are correct in pointing out the fine line between passion and zeaoltry, which of those paths does that machine that has promised global imperialism follow? And what are your possible solutions? War is only the second last surrender of the human spirit in defence of it's rightfull place at the table. I made no suggestion in this thread of waging war on anybody and if I am mistaken be so kind as to point them out, neither did the writer of the OP article except through sarcasm, while I can find literally thousands of mainstream articles threatening that exact thing in the American and British print media as if it were thier god given right to do so.

 

[gerryh]

I made no suggestion in this thread of waging war on anybody and if I am mistaken be so kind as to point them out,

See the message I posted previous quoting you on war. If you are "anti-war" then there is no need to prepare for something you have no intention of waging. Unless of course you're full of ****.

 

[darkbeaver]

See the message I posted previous quoting you on war. If you are "anti-war" then there is no need to prepare for something you have no intention of waging. Unless of course you're full of ****.

No body is stupid enough to believe that today. The war has already started gerry read the goddamn newspaper Canada is at war, ya got that Mr Thick.

 

[gerryh]

No body is stupid enough to believe that today. The war has already started gerry read the goddamn newspaper Canada is at war, ya got that Mr Thick.

Ahhhhh..... so because "they're doin it", or "they started it" you're willing to jump in.

Not me, I will not support the murder of another human being and I will not personally, actively participate in said killing.

Pull your pants up beaver, your hypocracy is showing.

 

[darkbeaver]

Ahhhhh..... so because "they're doin it", or "they started it" you're willing to jump in.

Not me, I will not support the murder of another human being and I will not personally, actively participate in said killing.

Pull your pants up beaver, your hypocracy is showing.

Right gerry when they come to stick a bayonette in you, make sure you tell them you're a pacifist it'll ease your conscience during your passage, and I'll respect you for your ideals but not your common sence.
My anti-war sentiment does not include dying like a rabbit. I'll do and have done everything I can to avoid fighting but I will not surrender my life or my childrens to quiet pacifism in the face of certain death. Your own good book speaks to just that issue, does it not? Of course it does.

 

[karrie]

I have to say I'm with the beaver on that point. While I don't support war... if someone brings it to my doorstep despite my attempts, I'm going to fight.

 

[gerryh]

Right gerry when they come to stick a bayonette in you, make sure you tell them you're a pacifist it'll ease your conscience during your passage, and I'll respect you for your ideals but not your common sence.
My anti-war sentiment does not include dying like a rabbit. I'll do and have done everything I can to avoid fighting but I will not surrender my life or my childrens to quiet pacifism in the face of certain death. Your own good book speaks to just that issue, does it not? Of course it does.

Does it now.... why don't you tell me where "my" good book tells me that I am allowed to kill someone.