Why did we stop inventing gods?

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
Which god almighty Selfsap? There are several. There was a history before Abram.
Start here and read 3 chapters.

Ge:1:1:
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Then read the last 3 chapters in this book and you will have a good handle on who God is.

Re:21:6:
And he said unto me,
It is done.
I am Alpha and Omega,
the beginning and the end.
I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Isa:59:21:
As for me,
this is my covenant with them,
saith the LORD;
My spirit that is upon thee,
and my words which I have put in thy mouth,
shall not depart out of thy mouth,
nor out of the mouth of thy seed,
nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed,
saith the LORD,
from henceforth and for ever.
 

French Patriot

Council Member
Sep 17, 2012
2,005
30
48
So, would it be fair to say your definition of "good morals" is "self-serving is good morals as long as it is less self-serving than the Ten Commandments?"



The self-serving that good morals provide is self serving to us as a species that is evolving.


The self-serving that the 10 commandments begin with is self-serving to the one god and not self-serving to us as a species as it stifles the evolution of our morality and that hurts our species.


Regards
DL
 

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
60,132
9,422
113
Washington DC
The self-serving that good morals provide is self serving to us as a species that is evolving.


The self-serving that the 10 commandments begin with is self-serving to the one god and not self-serving to us as a species as it stifles the evolution of our morality and that hurts our species.


Regards
DL
Nice tap dance. Transparent, but a good attempt.
 

French Patriot

Council Member
Sep 17, 2012
2,005
30
48
Sniped for brevity.


I guess most people are just pissed-off that they were born into an imperfect world than having to have had to wait for the perfected one.


If Christ did not go to the grave in the mission God gave Him then Satan would never be sent to the lake of fire, you would call that a win would you??




Christians seem confused about the state of the world. How can they think the world is not as god wants it to be when scriptures say that all of god' works are perfect?


Deuteronomy 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect.


As to your view of Christ and his immoral salvation.




As Ingersoll said; 'no man would be fit for heaven who would consent that an innocent person should suffer for his sin.


Regards
DL





 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
49,906
1,905
113
God wasn't invented. God invented us.

It's us humans and all other life on the planet - and the planet itself - who are invented.
 

French Patriot

Council Member
Sep 17, 2012
2,005
30
48
Regards DL

There are numerous methods I hear. I am frequently called upon to practice one or the other while I engage in blissfull disconnect associated with healthy exercises. Am I correct in thinking you do not recognize the sentience of the fourth state of matter, Plasma? Is it also true that you do not recognize a higher state of sentience than mankind?





Plasma nor a higher state of sentience has ever contacted us as far as I can tell, so I see no reason to believe in such a fantastic claim of sentience.


The god of an ant is an ant.
The god of a lion is a lion.


If that is what natural creatures do, then as natural people, our god should be a person.


That is how the ancients thought before Christianity and Islam became idol worshiping cults of the gods they have invented.


What is God? | Big Think


Regards
DL




 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
49,906
1,905
113
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]


Plasma nor a higher state of sentience has ever contacted us as far as I can tell, so I see no reason to believe in such a fantastic claim of sentience.


The god of an ant is an ant.
The god of a lion is a lion.


If that is what natural creatures do, then as natural people, our god should be a person.


That is how the ancients thought before Christianity and Islam became idol worshiping cults of the gods they have invented.


What is God? | Big Think


Regards
DL







Humans didn't invent God. God invented humans.
 

French Patriot

Council Member
Sep 17, 2012
2,005
30
48
This might help explain why religion is on the decline:

Pastor Rapes Teen, Church Asks Victim To Apologize To Pastor’s Wife



The church is one sick puppy.


Regards
DL


Isn't that what Hillary is doing lately??


[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]


That was not said by me.


Please fix your error.


Regards
DL



God Almighty is the True God.
Other gods or idols are illusion and invention.
So inventing gods did not stop at any time: Satan instigates man to invent gods every time and everywhere: in the form of sacred trees, sacred tombs and idols.



If Satan is that evil, why did your god create him?


If in the beginning there was nothing but your god, that would mean that he created all that is evil. Right?


Why?


Regards
DL

Nice tap dance. Transparent, but a good attempt.


Nice argument against.


You lose this one.


Regards
DL

God wasn't invented. God invented us.

It's us humans and all other life on the planet - and the planet itself - who are invented.



Which god and why did he create us to be evil and then threaten us with hell for being exactly as he created us to be?


Regards
DL
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
49,906
1,905
113

Which god and why did he create us to be evil and then threaten us with hell for being exactly as he created us to be?


The Christian god.

As for evil, God created a perfect world. Evil and sin are the painful results of the fall of man. Evil came about because man broke God's rules.

 

French Patriot

Council Member
Sep 17, 2012
2,005
30
48
The Christian god.

As for evil, God created a perfect world. Evil and sin are the painful results of the fall of man. Evil came about because man broke God's rules.

[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]



God's rule was that man remain in ignorant bliss and too stupid to even know he was naked.


We gained a moral sense in Eden, would you give up yours?


Further, that is a Jewish story of man's elevation. Why do you reverse the moral of that story to a fall?


The Original Meaning Of Original Sin « The Dish


Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, it stresses Original Virtue, the beneficent hereditary influence of righteous ancestors upon their descendants’.




You say that evil came about because man broke God's rules.


Was Satan in heaven before man was even created not evil?


If in the beginning god was all there was, and everything emanated from god, would that not include evil?


Regards
DL
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
49,906
1,905
113
God's rule was that man remain in ignorant bliss and too stupid to even know he was naked.


We gained a moral sense in Eden, would you give up yours?


Further, that is a Jewish story of man's elevation. Why do you reverse the moral of that story to a fall?


The Original Meaning Of Original Sin « The Dish


Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, it stresses Original Virtue, the beneficent hereditary influence of righteous ancestors upon their descendants’.




You say that evil came about because man broke God's rules.


Was Satan in heaven before man was even created not evil?


If in the beginning god was all there was, and everything emanated from god, would that not include evil?


Regards
DL

Mankind created evil because he broke God's rules and ended the perfect existence God had created.

Blaming God for the creation of evil would be like blaming God for broken bones, because he just happened to create humans with bones that could break. The real blame behind broken bones lies with the person who has fallen over and broken their bones, not with God. The blame behind evil lies with man falling, not with God.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]


Christians seem confused about the state of the world. How can they think the world is not as god wants it to be when scriptures say that all of god' works are perfect?


Deuteronomy 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect.


As to your view of Christ and his immoral salvation.




As Ingersoll said; 'no man would be fit for heaven who would consent that an innocent person should suffer for his sin.


Regards
DL


Perhaps you should pay attention to the words in the book. You seem to be mistaking 'good' for 'perfect'.

Ge:1:31:
And God saw every thing that he had made,
and,
behold,
it was very good.
And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Isa:65:17:
For, behold,
I create new heavens and a new earth:
and the former shall not be remembered,
nor come into mind.

Isa:66:22:
For as the new heavens and the new earth,
which I will make,
shall remain before me,

saith the LORD,
so shall your seed and your name remain.

You might as well be begging God to 'spare you' from being alive to see the return or live through the 1st phase of 'the salvation of mankind'. Be careful what you pray for.
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
10,168
539
113
Regina, SK
As for evil, God created a perfect world. Evil and sin are the painful results of the fall of man. Evil came about because man broke God's rules.
And somehow this omniscient deity failed to foresee the consequences of his creation, that the nature of the human beings he created was such that they would almost immediately break the rules? The logic of that escapes me. It clearly is not a perfect world, it has flawed human beings in it. He could have made us better, the way he really wanted us to be, but he didn't. Now he holds us accountable for that and demands that we change ourselves into what he really wanted us to be, by believing the correct things (for which he's provided only bad evidence) and following the proper rituals. And if we fail, it's an eternity of conscious torment in fire for us.

That's a dirty trick, and the essence of why I decided long ago that it's all superstitious nonsense.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
And somehow this omniscient deity failed to foresee the consequences of his creation,
If that was true there would be no salvation for Angels or Man(kind). Angels were made imperfect in that they had immortality but lacked the emotions that would allow them to 'good parents', that is why they were not given in marriage. Man was made imperfect in that they were not given immortality or knowledge about good and evil. By the time they enter the new (perfected) earth they have immortality and knowledge of good and evil. This period is to let us learn what evil is, the new earth will be about learning what 'good' is. Angels in their new heaven will be given in marriage and the children they have will be born perfected and as such they cannot fall into sin which would mean a trip to the fiery lake.

that the nature of the human beings he created was such that they would almost immediately break the rules?
Eve was tricked into eating, Adam ate because he was 'one flesh' with Eve and would not let her die alone. Satan was the original sinner and the law he broke was murder and lying which is against the laws for immortals which is defined in Re:21. Immortal men will be under that same law and the ones alive for the 1,000 years will be the first people to be under that Law, all the ones born in the new earth (after the GWT) will also be under those same laws as the 10 Commandments cease to be when the 1,000 year reign begins as they are for sinners rather than immortals who are sinless. (by design)

The logic of that escapes me.
God made something good before it was made perfect. By design the 2/3 of Angels who did not sin will enter their 'new heaven' and all of mankind will enter the new earth as perfected beings, they are the seed-bank for the start of that era. Each couple that live outside of New Jerusalem will have 100 children, those children will not be perfected until they are 120 years old.

It clearly is not a perfect world, it has flawed human beings in it.
It wasn't made perfect, it was made 'good' and that is less than perfect. Fallen angels have the Pit to hold them before their judgment day which is after the 1,000 year reign when Satan is sent to the fiery lake, all the people alive at the beginning of the 1,000 years will be witnesses to that event and since they have been perfected none of them are sent to the lake. The ones not alive for that period are raised sinless at the GWT so none of them are sent to the lake either, the one that die on the day of the return are sent to hell, the same place Satan is sent but they stay in hell when Satan is released. All sins are removed by a person entering the grave, all people rather than just some.

He could have made us better, the way he really wanted us to be, but he didn't.
That is what the new earth is all about. 6,000 years (and counting) for a sinful earth and eternity for a perfected sinless earth. Would you rather it be the other way around??

Now he holds us accountable for that and demands that we change ourselves into what he really wanted us to be,
By going to the grave that person is spared hell (if you die before the return) and all people that were ever conceived are named in the book of life, to be removed you have to sin during the period of the new earth, none.

by believing the correct things (for which he's provided only bad evidence) and following the proper rituals.
The only 'ritual' that is applicable today is the poor be taken care of, clearly 'we' are a big failure at that. The laws that came in with Moses were for Jesus to follow so He would be killed while being sinless. All but the 10 Commandments became void 3 1/2 years later as Acts:10 indicates.

And if we fail, it's an eternity of conscious torment in fire for us.
That's not true at all. Read about death and the grave in Job:14, that applies to all people not just Job.

That's a dirty trick, and the essence of why I decided long ago that it's all superstitious nonsense.
Not trick at all, the Bible promotes a progression from being imperfect to being perfect. You want it before the set time.

M't:8:28:
And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes,
there met him two possessed with devils,
coming out of the tombs,
exceeding fierce,
so that no man might pass by that way.
M't:8:29:
And,
behold,
they cried out,
saying,
What have we to do with thee,
Jesus,
thou Son of God?
art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
 

French Patriot

Council Member
Sep 17, 2012
2,005
30
48
Mankind created evil because he broke God's rules and ended the perfect existence God had created.

Blaming God for the creation of evil would be like blaming God for broken bones, because he just happened to create humans with bones that could break. The real blame behind broken bones lies with the person who has fallen over and broken their bones, not with God. The blame behind evil lies with man falling, not with God.



So you do not see the value of our gaining knowledge and a moral sense and ignore the original Jewish moral of the story.


As to evil, you ignore that Satan was in heaven, and evil, before man could even sin.


I am not interested in those like you who ignore all these facts and just mouth the same old garbage.


Let me know if you ever really want to discuss your homophobic and misogynous religion that grew itself with violence and Inquisitions instead of good deeds.


Regards
DL

Perhaps you should pay attention to the words in the book. You seem to be mistaking 'good' for 'perfect'.

Ge:1:31:
And God saw every thing that he had made,
and,
behold,
it was very good.
And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Isa:65:17:
For, behold,
I create new heavens and a new earth:
and the former shall not be remembered,
nor come into mind.

Isa:66:22:
For as the new heavens and the new earth,
which I will make,
shall remain before me,

saith the LORD,
so shall your seed and your name remain.

You might as well be begging God to 'spare you' from being alive to see the return or live through the 1st phase of 'the salvation of mankind'. Be careful what you pray for.
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]


Especially when praying to a genocidal son murdering god who has no clue as to what good morals are.


If you want to think that god can only do good works and that their flaws keep them out of the perfect range, go ahead. I see that as just one more flaw and you ignoring the quote I put.


Regards
DL
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
funny that the ancient sumerians would invent am En Men Lu Anna
one some , about half the know tablets he is listed as Kichi Ana
The local native diety is Kichi Wanna

The first pharaoh of Egypt was Menes, in India he was known as Manis tu-su
local great spiri Manitou

Word somehow got arround in the old days. Actual words.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
. . . that hurts our species.
Our species is what hurts our species. This is where we are when 'God' has had no representatives on earth for about 2,000 years. Not really a success story for 98% of the people that have lived during that period of time. I'm thinking that 'we' have used and abused and killed far more people than God did in the same amount of time.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
193
63
Nakusp, BC
"and god created man in his own image"... so god is a lying, cheating sociopath hell bent on murdering everyone who disagrees with him and destroying the Earth. Makes sense. I'll jump right on that bandwagon.... Not!

re killing in the name of religion
would a god need hired guns?
Did he use hired guns when he wiped out the amphibians, the dinosaurs by asteroid, and humans by drowning?