Why Can't Canada Be Like Norway on Oil Revenues?

Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
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Still leaves us with the unresolved problem of NIMBYism when it comes to building any kind of a processing facility.

I don't really see much of a NIMBY effect in this issue. Last time I looked it appeared that most Canadian municipalities are quite happy to have large tax-paying facitlities in their jurisdiction. Edmonton and the smaller municiplaities around it are full of oil industry related businesses and in fact a few of those lacking industrial facilities have constructed industrial parks to encourage expansion of industrial business into their areas. The same is true of many other municiplaties across Canada.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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As a shiny new upgradeer sits in waiting for the XL and Northern Gateway...



NIMBYS are killing the economy.
 

Machjo

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Oct 19, 2004
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And what about all the many thousands of jobs that depend on resource extraction? Should they all just start selling wildflowers downtown?

If we sold less gas, certainly the value of the dollar would go down, thus encouraging other exports to compensate. There is no doubt we'd all be poorer as a result. But I'd rather put up with moderate poverty now than a sudden crash later as if we'd just suddenly hit a brick wall at 100 mph. We've reached peak oil. let's admit to it and prepare for some pain now rather than major pain later for our grandchildren. I'm sure most of us could live with less.

And poorer does not necessarily mean high unemployment if we promote free trade, ensure the unemployed are well trained for manufacturing jobs, and we allow wages to drop sufficiently to compensate so as to stave off inflation.
 

taxslave

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Nov 25, 2008
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I don't really see much of a NIMBY effect in this issue. Last time I looked it appeared that most Canadian municipalities are quite happy to have large tax-paying facitlities in their jurisdiction. Edmonton and the smaller municiplaities around it are full of oil industry related businesses and in fact a few of those lacking industrial facilities have constructed industrial parks to encourage expansion of industrial business into their areas. The same is true of many other municiplaties across Canada.

In Alberta maybe. Not in BC. The idle rich here protest anything that might create jobs and actively try to close down existing ones. THe self same NIMBYs also cry about our kids going to Alberta to work because there are no good paying jobs here. Vancouver Island has become especially bad for this
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Since the life that makes oil has been around since the get go, maybe we should be drilling deeper than the Cretaceous? Perhaps we've hit peak Cretaceous oil but far from the peak in general.
 

tay

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May 20, 2012
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The previous arguement should still be out arguement...................




"Every barrel of raw bitumen we send out of Alberta means lost jobs," adds McGowan. "It also means lost revenue for the province, revenue that could be used to pay for things like health care and education. We are losing jobs down the pipeline and pouring revenue down the drain."

McGowan says: "What these figures demonstrate is that Albertans have been lied to by their leaders. They also show that government ministers like Ron Liepert and Iris Evans have become little more than pitchmen for energy and pipeline companies that prefer raw bitumen exports over Alberta-based job creation."


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The real story on Keystone XL | Communications, Energy and Paperworks Union of Canada




Norway's vast oil wealth fund has recorded a return of 4.7 per cent, or 162 billion kroner ($22.44 billion) in the third quarter, attributing the increase mainly to rising global stock markets, particularly in Europe.


Norway's oil wealth fund posts 4.7 per cent return in Q3 thanks to rallying stock markets - Winnipeg Free Press
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
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"Every barrel of raw bitumen we send out of Alberta means lost jobs," adds McGowan. "It also means lost revenue for the province, revenue that could be used to pay for things like health care and education. We are losing jobs down the pipeline and pouring revenue down the drain."
Strange how oil companies are hiring from US and overseas because there is a labour shortage in Western Canada.


GET A JOB!
 

Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
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Can't see why oil should not be continuously being made. After all the oceans have not run out of microscopic organisms. BTW that is where oil comes from, not dinosaurs.
 

tay

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Heather Mallick concludes her quest for good ideas in Norway



The Norwegians discovered offshore oil in the 1960s but, unlike Canada, learned to manage it well and now, well, they’re loaded. Norway’s Sovereign Wealth Fund, is worth $650 billion (U.S) and will hit $1 trillion in this decade. (Alberta’s Heritage Fund, set up in 1976, is at a banana republic level of $15.9 billion Cdn.).

It wasn’t always this way. When oil extraction began, regulation was weak, Claes says. “The American companies came, did it the way they did it in Texas with no labour, health or environmental regulations.” Then in 1980 an offshore oil platform collapse killed 123 workers. “The Nordic logic kicked in.”

Now the industry is heavily regulated, taxed and structured for the future, the only debate being at what pace extraction should continue, to avoid the “Dutch disease” of an oil-dominated economy crushing manufacturing exports.

Canada faces this problem in its rush to pull money out of the tarsands at full speed. It uses low-paid foreign workers, for instance. Here, local workers are trained, so that the expertise doesn’t leave if a multinational departs.

Einar Lie, a history professor at the University of Oslo, says the Norwegian government initially had a semi-war with multinational oil firms because it wanted control of its own resources and a marginal tax rate of at least 90 per cent. (In 2010, Alberta charged only 10 per cent royalties on its all its oil revenue, Anderson reports.)

The multinationals threatened to leave the Norwegian shelf. “(Norway) didn’t want them to leave but they didn’t beg them to stay because that’s not how we do things in Norwegian politics,” Lie says.

Norway called the multinational bluff yet kept it civilized. “We have a strong belief in negotiations without winners and losers,” Lie says. “Norway is an extremely egalitarian society.”


Mallick: Lessons from Oslo - thestar.com
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
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Norway has the hghest taxes in the EU and damn near the world. That is what pays for their over the top socialism. Not oil or gas.
 

captain morgan

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Norway has the hghest taxes in the EU and damn near the world. That is what pays for their over the top socialism. Not oil or gas.


It never ceases to amaze me how the usual suspects can ignore the glaring differences between Canada and Norway that result in dramatically different costs. The most obvious starting point is that Canada has around 25 - 30 times the land mass and almost 10 times the population.

Considering that Norway is relatively small and they have such a vast sovereign wealth fund available, I have to wonder why they are taxing their population into the grave rather than trying to diversify their economy and develop their future
 

tay

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Alberta should adopt a sales tax, according to the latest press release from the Fraser Institute.




But don’t worry, the latest piece of far-right puffery from the market-fundamentalist “think tank” – which prefers to refer to this bumpf as a “study” or a “report” – only advocates a consumption tax like those in Texas and Wyoming so that income and business taxes can be eliminated for the very rich people who bankroll the legal charity to the tune of $11 million a year.


Both of those known-to-be-enlightened states have eliminated income taxes and taxes on businesses in favour of sales taxes, the Fraser Institute says, so we Albertans should hurry up and do the same thing.


Just thought I’d start with this point because there’s bound to be plenty of uncritical media coverage of the Fraser Institute’s “findings” in the morning that fails to mention it.


Indeed, the Edmonton Journal was first out the gate with just such a report, complete with the predicted omission. It did, however, gloomily proclaim that “Alberta’s finances are in worse shape than other energy-producing provinces and states,” while quoting Progressive Conservative spokespeople who meekly accepted many of the Fraser Institute’s dubious claims while maintaining they’ve already done much of what the group demanded.


The Fraser Institute’s media statement about its conclusions emphasized, however, that Alberta’s recent deficits were not caused by “lack of revenues” – a point that is contentious to say the least given that Alberta taxpayers, as the province’s resource royalty review stated, in 2007, “do not receive their fair share from energy development and they have not, in fact, been receiving their fair share for some time.”


The government of premier Ed Stelmach timorously implemented some of the independent government panel’s recommendations, and then ran screaming from what it had done in 2010 when resource companies threatened a capital strike and began seriously funding the market-fundamentalist Wildrose Party.


That retreat got Alberta back in the race to the bottom advocated by groups like the Fraser Institute. Speaking of which, in fairness to the organization, its “study” released yesterday barely deals with the important question of resource royalties, which is only mentioned once, in passing, in its 66 pages. Nor is this the effort’s only significant oversight.


Quite naturally given that omission, this latest pronouncement from the group reaches conclusions other than that a modest increase in oil revenues might be part of the solution to the province’s budgeting conundrum. No, no, it’s all about too much spending!


Moreover, the Fraser Institute’s North American focus is highly convenient – and obviously quite intentional – because it effectively allows the authors to concentrate on low-tax jurisdictions with mostly smaller energy sectors in which many other economic factors are at play. This lets their “research” jostle the pinball machine in favour of the group’s predetermined conclusions.




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You could drive one of those tar sands heavy haulers through the gaping holes in the latest Fraser Institute ‘study’ of Alberta’s finances | Alberta Diary