So you are officially taking the position that since a woman can have an abortion a guy has no responsibility to his child.
Bear, you know better than that.
Why is it you keep conveniently forgetting adoption, or even raising it on her own. You never answered me as to why you all think a woman is not capable of this act, when there are so many that do, as well as men?
Why would you ever avoid sharing responsibility for your child to the point of the legal system having
to put you in jail, that is the extreme. A man must have to do many sneaky things to avoid sharing
part of their monthly income with their child, to come to the point where they are jailed.
Why would a man ever think that he doesn't have half responsibility for providing for their own child.
How could any man even admit that he doesn't want to help in the support of their child.
Any number of reasons that fail to come to the thoughts of most of the people arguing adainst LRG and I. A lack of maturety or financial stablity are but two. If the woman feels that either of these things is not at the point where she can raise a child, she can opt out. The man does not have that right.
So Bear men can go around inpregnating women with impunity but as long as he's not held financially "Responsible" for his hoeing ways it's okay but if he's held accountable for his actions that's enequality? Sorry but that is deniel, he had the choice to practice safe sex and he chose not to, please no argument that the female should use protection that's been our responsiblity since the dawn of time. If men practiced the rule no "Glove no love" their precious pocket book would be safe for a life time.
Bear wrote: EXACTLY, so why is it ok to put men into court ordered slavery?
Paying to support a child you created is Slavery? Sorry Bear it's called owning up to being a parent, so what is your "Solution" to this problem you have with holding men accountable for fathering children? As someone who spent a great deal of time and money (forget the pain and the suffering) hoping to have a child perhaps I'm not unbiased on this issue but your stance is very offensive to me as a female.
That's not the arguement, the arguement is, if a woman feels she is not financialy or emotionally ready to be a parent, she can opt out. The man does not have that right.
That's the part I don't get. I don't see how anyone could view it as slavery.
It is slavery, because the man does not have the option of not being forced to pay, yet the woman does.
It seems to be assumed, prior to the debate, that abortion is an option where women have sole control. This is not true. To assume that abortion is a legal privilege not enjoyed by men is begging the question. This premise, or concept, of expecting women to take their easy way out (abortion) is a male perspective. Women do not voluntarily enter into dangerous surgery that is known to have life long psychological effects. Men need to understand that abortion is a choice/"opt out"/response that women 'choose' when they are backed into a corner. Women, if there is a pregnancy, are the only one that has proof of the pregnancy; and it's nothing that she can hide. Men get off easy. If the dad is not enthusiastically promising the white picket fence, she's in a wee bit of a pickle - no mistake. Men should not mistake abortion for free will - women's free will is like mens: not pregnant.
Women and men, when pregnant, have numerous choices. If the pregnancy results in abortion then clearly something was wrong from the start. Men should not construe this eventuality into an option. It is the absence of options that results in abortion. Men contribute to those choices.
Women that have a child after a one night stand? Was that the other option in this discussion??? ... where they have no connection except drunken bar sex and he's supposed to pay for the next 18 years? Who is retarded ... him or her? If she's that stupid, why was he having sex with a retard? If he's that stupid, how did he know where to put it?
Yes it is true, it is a legal option, whether YOU agree or not, it is alegal option, you can not change that FACT. Yes women do enter into this surgery with the expectations of not having to deal with the physical of emotional or financial responsblity of parenthood, whether YOU like it or not.
There's that hysterics about abortion again. Take your superior intellect out and learn about it. Hundreds of thousands of women have done it without long term effects, that have negated the rest of their life. Get a grip on reality.
OH please if you say there are all sorts of options for men, please post them. So far all you've posted is emotional tripe and more hysteria.
Do I even have to respond to such a ridiculous remark? What drivel!
If only more women could understand their 'abortion opt out choice':
Edmonton police have confirmed that a body found along the city's outskirts is that of
a pregnant woman who had been missing for a week. Liana White, 29, appeared to have been in a struggle before she died but the cause of death has not been determined, Detective Michael Campeau said on Tuesday. The news comes
just hours after her husband, Michael White, appeared in an Edmonton courtroom to face a charge of second-degree murder.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2005/07/19/lianawhite070519.html
What the heck is wrong with those women anyway that they don't understand abortion instead of divorce??? Yah, murder is way down there on the list but it still seems to be one of the options that men consider, a little after abortion.
Oops ... I should have said "a lifetime of payments" rather than "abortion". Yup, you too can avoid a lifetime of payments just like Michael White of Edmonton. If she won't have an abortion, you can go for murder and 10 years in prison rather than 18 years of child support and if you're lucky, you can get off easy. Pregnancy ... is it really the men that pay the price?
My mother always said that if you got off with money, you got off easy. Does that compute?
I love the hysteria and bias in that post, really not even in the arguement, just more emotion and tripe. No one here has advocated murder.
I don't see you advocating equal pain or even death during childbirth. She has more responsibility than simply handing out cigars.
A financial obligation is not slavery. Comparing reproductive rights is impossible and pointless, and more importantly completely irrelevant once a baby is born.
Back to the baby again. Stop putting the cart before the horse.
Presuming that women can "opt out" of being 'knocked up' by having an abortion ... one of the most insulting things a man can say to a woman.
Have we forgotten a modicum of decency?
No we haven't, have you forgotten to premise behind womans lib and equality, or is it ok now that the balance of justice is tipped in your favour?
It may be offensive to you, because you are applying your opinion to the equation not legal thinking, that is the problem with all the other people in here posting the opposite arguement to LRG and I, you are arguing with your emotion and opinions, not analytical legal sense. LRG and I have removed emotion, removed bias and looked at it based on the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and found the current system is in a state of imbalance. Whether you agree or not it is.
If any of you had the ablity to stop using emotion, hysteria, and personal opinion and looked at the issue for 1 second with an open analytical mind, you would see we are right. Not morally or ethicaly, but legally. Period. We are not advocates of men abandonning their children, we are sensible people who understand why the laws are the way they are. We are merely arguing a legal imbalance that is the current system.
All the lofty shots are humourous when you consider the fact that the two people that can look at things without emotion or pure opinion are the bad guys. When the hysterical knee jerk reactions of the rest of you is based solely on assumptions, not facsts.
