Who's right to choose, a womans right to choose.

[Kreskin]

You have the right to defend yourself during an attempted murder. Does that mean a murderer is cleared if he can prove you made no attempt to fight back?

She has a defensive right but has zero obligation or expectation to use it. It has nothing to do with a father's obligation to his child. Like I said to Bear before, the law is acting on behalf of the child and no court in is right mind is going to deny the child a decent life because his mother had the right to abort it. Your mother's had the right to abort you. Does that absolve the next door neighbour from paying you back a loan?

 

[LittleRunningGag]

The courts are acting on behalf of the child. It's not spa treatment support or alimony. You keep bringing the woman into this llike she's the devil for having your kid.

Not at all. She is an evil person for holding a gun to my head. I would say that to anyone who held a gun to my head without sufficient reason.

Damn right the court should force the money out of your pocket to put food in your own kid's mouth. It would be highly irresponsibile not to.

So, you are okay with robbing a man, at gun point, because he has a different value set than yours?

Okay, so here's a hypothetical:

Would you be willing to do it yourself? Would you be willing to hunt him down? Point your gun in his face? Physically assault him until he hands over the money you want? Are you willing to end his life because you think he owes you money?

If so, this is a pointless discussion. Obviously you think protecting your values is worth more than the life of an individual. I hope you never have to deal with the consequences of that.

What if it were the other way around? What if you were the one getting your life threatened because you didn't go to church, or you had a friend who was a homosexual? Its a slippery slope. Freedom is something that you have to be careful not to erode simply because someone is doing something that you don't happen to like.

And if you are advocating the limiting of a person's freedoms, you better be damned sure that you are okay with that person dying over it. You better be sure you can walk away with a clear concience afterwards.

 

[CDNBear]

You have the right to defend yourself during an attempted murder. Does that mean a murderer is cleared if he can prove you made no attempt to fight back?

She has a defensive right but has zero obligation or expectation to use it. It has nothing to do with a father's obligation to his child. Like I said to Bear before, the law is acting on behalf of the child and no court in is right mind is going to deny the child a decent life because his mother had the right to abort it. Your mother's had the right to abort you. Does that absolve the next door neighbour from paying you back a loan?

But why shouldn't the mother take financial responsiblity here. You guys jump up our asses for imaginary issues, yet you are all clearly stating that woman can not or will not take full financial responsiblity for their choices. Why?

 

[LittleRunningGag]

You have the right to defend yourself during an attempted murder. Does that mean a murderer is cleared if he can prove you made no attempt to fight back?

No, he has attempted to infringe upon your rights. Where has the man infringed on your rights by not paying support.

She has a defensive right but has zero obligation or expectation to use it. It has nothing to do with a father's obligation to his child. Like I said to Bear before, the law is acting on behalf of the child and no court in is right mind is going to deny the child a decent life because his mother had the right to abort it. Your mother's had the right to abort you. Does that absolve the next door neighbour from paying you back a loan?

This isn't a question of self defence. People do not have the right to live a comfortable life, or even a decent life. That is a privilege one earns. That is a privilege one is responsible for providing one's self.

 

[LittleRunningGag]

Anywho, I'm off for the night. Gotta try and convince my wonderful, loving wife, to make Tourtiere for dinner tonight. Later.

 

[selfactivated]

Anywho, I'm off for the night. Gotta try and convince my wonderful, loving wife, to make Tourtiere for dinner tonight. Later.

Id LOVE the recipe!

 

[Nikki]

Id LOVE the recipe!

LOL as the wonderful loving wife... I would love the recipe to . I will let you know if I get a good one. I am just looking for one right now . I will let you know how it goes pm me to remind me

 

[Kreskin]

Not at all. She is an evil person for holding a gun to my head. I would say that to anyone who held a gun to my head without sufficient reason.


So, you are okay with robbing a man, at gun point, because he has a different value set than yours?

Okay, so here's a hypothetical:

Would you be willing to do it yourself? Would you be willing to hunt him down? Point your gun in his face? Physically assault him until he hands over the money you want? Are you willing to end his life because you think he owes you money?

If so, this is a pointless discussion. Obviously you think protecting your values is worth more than the life of an individual. I hope you never have to deal with the consequences of that.

What if it were the other way around? What if you were the one getting your life threatened because you didn't go to church, or you had a friend who was a homosexual? Its a slippery slope. Freedom is something that you have to be careful not to erode simply because someone is doing something that you don't happen to like.

And if you are advocating the limiting of a person's freedoms, you better be damned sure that you are okay with that person dying over it. You better be sure you can walk away with a clear concience afterwards.

Don't be foolish. Did she have a gun to your head during sex? Where does the gun come in to this? You have a legal obligation to financially support your child. I'm sorry you don't like it but did it occur to you that you child might not like going hungry or living in a cardboard box? That child is a minor. He/she can't go out and get a job, or do you expect them to forgo all education and work at the carwash at age 6? What is it you expect out of your child, that they take out 100% responsibility and you take none?

 

[CDNBear]

Don't be foolish. Did she have a gun to your head during sex? Where does the gun come in to this? You have a legal obligation to financially support your child. I'm sorry you don't like it but did it occur to you that you child might not like going hungry or living in a cardboard box? That child is a minor. He/she can't go out and get a job, or do you expect them to forgo all education and work at the carwash at age 6? What is it you expect out of your child, that they take out 100% responsibility and you take none?

See post 423.

But why should this "child" cause the slavery of someone to benefit his future, when thousnads of children put themselves through higher education, thousands of children come from single income homes, and do quite fine thanx?

Hell I didn't get that luxury.

 

[Kreskin]

See post 423.

But why should this "child" cause the slavery of someone to benefit his future, when thousnads of children put themselves through higher education, thousands of children come from single income homes, and do quite fine thanx?

If two parents decide some other arrangement is best for the child, fantastic. No one is suggesting this is not an option. But if it isn't I would expect my own parent to take some responsibility for keeping me safe, housed, fed, and educated. It is rather common sense.

 

[CDNBear]

If two parents decide some other arrangement is best for the child, fantastic. No one is suggesting this is not an option. But if it isn't I would expect my own parent to take some responsibility for keeping me safe, housed, fed, and educated. It is rather common sense.

But you have brought up higher education several times, like it is some sort of right. It is not. Just like not living in public housing is not a right. Just like not living from pay to pay is not a right. Hey life ain't fair, so why does this imaginary child have to have the best things in life, when I as a son of 4, didn't get what you assume this child should get.

 

[Kreskin]

But you have brought up higher education several times, like it is some sort of right. It is not. Just like not living in public housing is not a right. Just like not living from pay to pay is not a right. Hey life ain't fair, so why does this imaginary child have to have the best things in life, when I as a son of 4, didn't get what you assume this child should get.

If you guys think the child from birth is 100% for it's well being, and you feel it important to take zero %, I feel sorry for that child. It's no wonder some kids are literally born without a chance in life.

 

[selfactivated]

LOL as the wonderful loving wife... I would love the recipe to . I will let you know if I get a good one. I am just looking for one right now . I will let you know how it goes pm me to remind me

Well hello Nikki!!! I think I found one let me see if I can find it again. I'll post it in my dining alone thread Im tickled pink you said hi!!

 

[Kreskin]

I couldn't live with myself knowing I abandoned helping the future of my own flesh and blood. I live by the motto that I want my kids to live better than me. I know I have an obligation to give them every opportunity to win in this crazy world. I can't imagine having the attitude of fighting that obligation in court with any excuse, be it moms right to an abortion (which is ludicrous) or not.

 

[Nikki]

Well hello Nikki!!! I think I found one let me see if I can find it again. I'll post it in my dining alone thread Im tickled pink you said hi!!

I found one as well. I will post that one there too . I didn't know we had a dinning thread. I love recipies. I have sooo many lol. cooking is awsome. Ok I am going to go change threads now since this has nothing to do with this topic.

 

[Kreskin]

Bear. Dad and kid at home with only enough foor to feed one of them. Do you eat it or give it to your child? Most would give the food, the clothing off their backs, anything, to their child.

Do you have a problem with any court seeing that the Dad share some of that food and clothing with their kid? Or do you see the courts saying this is a reproductive rights issue?

 

[selfactivated]

Kreskin that just makes you a more than honourable man that ANY woman would make damn sure you were in their lives. But everyone is not like you. And in my humble opinion its not a fair world we live in. I believe we ALL have rights and we ALL have a say in how our lives pan out EVEN if we've made a huge mistake. Women get to choose how their bodies are used. Its their goddess given right.......period! Noone here is saying any less. But the choices that are made after that sweet bundle is born HAS to be on an even board. It took two to get to this point and it will take two to move on. Putting men in jail is not fair, a woman can go on assistance from the state without going to jail. A man is hunted down.......Im not saying this as eloquantly as Bear or LRG or even you. I just wanted to say I wish the 2 "dads" that I was burdianed with we're more like you. I still wouldnt have made you pay child support but it would have made life nicer knowing a decent human being.

 

[talloola]

So the only reason you would support your offspring was because the law makes you? What's wrong with you? Don't you have any sense of responsibility (or morality)?


Let me guess, the only reason you don't go out looting, pillaging, and raping, is because the law frowns upon it? What high moral standards you must have.


You actually think that men want the freedom kill their mates? Wow.


Ahem. Maybe you should actually read what is written instead of having a knee jerk reaction that makes you look foolish.

You totally missed all points that I made, or you decided to twist everything to fit your wierd mind
Your statement above re: kill their mates - wasn't what I said, I included that statement amongst
other points, and in life, a very small percentage of woman (who are pregnant) are killed, and it
is almost always by their partners/husbands.
And I repeat, that if there was no legal system to assist woman who "need" it, then all of the men
who "wish to" could just ignore the situation, and move on to do whatever they want to do next,
perhaps have sex with another woman, and on and on it goes. We are talking here about " the
totally irresponsible men" right?, not all men.

 

[CDNBear]

If you guys think the child from birth is 100% for it's well being, and you feel it important to take zero %, I feel sorry for that child. It's no wonder some kids are literally born without a chance in life.

It's no wonder indeed. If more women took responsiblity for their actions and choices, they wouldn't sit idle and cry and moan about the state of their lives and be positive and do the best they could with what they had, that way the child would have the greatest chance of learning self reliance, responsiblity for their actions and choices. then go forth and be a productive member of society with all the chances that the average child has.

 

[CDNBear]

I couldn't live with myself knowing I abandoned helping the future of my own flesh and blood. I live by the motto that I want my kids to live better than me. I know I have an obligation to give them every opportunity to win in this crazy world. I can't imagine having the attitude of fighting that obligation in court with any excuse, be it moms right to an abortion (which is ludicrous) or not.

I couldn't agree with that more. But it is not equallity that you speak of, it is our moral and ethical id.