Who's right to choose, a womans right to choose.

[Nikki]

See, all emotion.

1.) we are talking about how Laws are unjust. I know exactly how current laws work. Many stupid and unjust things have been legal over the years, that didn't make them JUST. Or was slavery, females as second class citizens and criminalized homosexuality all just because they were all legal?

2.) Lets see how women sound saying these things if abortion was still illegal

"Your honour I didn't mean to mother the child but I'm a lazy tastard and forgot oh well I don't like condoms, So your honour how can this be my fault, I don't wanna pay a dime for this kid it's not really mine cause the law refused to let me kill the baby. "

Guess your all for making abortion illegal again.

How can you support turning women into mindless baby factories? OR do you just mean women should be treated differently then Men with more rights? Only men can be deadbeats because women are genetically superior?

Still Sound stupid? Well that is how your remarks sound to me as a male, trying to force a man into bending to females will and calling yourselves victims is redundant. Inequality no, accountability yes. What's next ladies? Charging men with rape if you change your mind after a break up six months later "Oh your honour, sure I wanted to sleep with him then..but looking back that was a bad idea, arrest him please"

Wow I can't believe I am still reading all these posts lol.

Anyway. Nice post here!

Sassy,

You do realize that condoms don't always work 100% of the time. So perhaps they wouldn't be arguing "oh I don't like using a condom".

If you are going to make arguments at least make good arguments about the topic at hand.

Which once again is NOT about the moralities of abortion it IS about the legalities behind it.

 

[CDNBear]

See, all emotion.

1.) we are talking about how Laws are unjust. I know exactly how current laws work. Many stupid and unjust things have been legal over the years, that didn't make them JUST. Or was slavery, females as second class citizens and criminalized homosexuality all just because they were all legal?

2.) Lets see how women sound saying these things if abortion was still illegal

"Your honour I didn't mean to mother the child but I'm a lazy tastard and forgot oh well I don't like condoms, So your honour how can this be my fault, I don't wanna pay a dime for this kid it's not really mine cause the law refused to let me kill the baby. "

Guess your all for making abortion illegal again.

How can you support turning women into mindless baby factories? OR do you just mean women should be treated differently then Men with more rights? Only men can be deadbeats because women are genetically superior?

Still Sound stupid? Well that is how your remarks sound to me as a male, trying to force a man into bending to females will and calling yourselves victims is redundant. Inequality no, accountability yes. What's next ladies? Charging men with rape if you change your mind after a break up six months later "Oh your honour, sure I wanted to sleep with him then..but looking back that was a bad idea, arrest him please"

Well put Zzarchov. I can't beleive at one point I was about to write you off as a wing nut. Even in the other thread, since you dropped the sarcasm, the conversation has turned out some critical thought.

Wow I can't believe I am still reading all these posts lol.

Anyway. Nice post here!

Sassy,

You do realize that condoms don't always work 100% of the time. So perhaps they wouldn't be arguing "oh I don't like using a condom".

If you are going to make arguments at least make good arguments about the topic at hand.

Which once again is NOT about the moralities of abortion it IS about the legalities behind it.

Always a blessing to have an analytical open mind, isn't it Nikki.

 

[Nikki]

Well put Zzarchov. I can't beleive at one point I was about to write you off as a wing nut. Even in the other thread, since you dropped the sarcasm, the conversation has turned out some critical thought.

Always a blessing to have an analytical open mind, isn't it Nikki.

I just think its really sad that as a society we can't distinguish btwn morals and law.

I mean the morality of child rearing = RAISE YOUR ****ING KID.

Laws behind it = Should be equality. and the government should bud out.

*sigh* whatever. If people can't understand that morals are big and confusing and the law is black and white that isn't my problem. Wow I still can't believe I keep coming back to this thread lol. :smilebox: ( I love this smiley face)

 

[Kreskin]

I'm hoping you all sooner or later figure out this isn't about mother vs father, it's about the child. When the lightbulb goes off let me know.

 

[CDNBear]

I'm hoping you all sooner or later figure out this isn't about mother vs father, it's about the child. When the lightbulb goes off let me know.

Did you miss the OP Kreskin?

 

[Kreskin]

Did you miss the OP Kreskin?

Hey Bear, you guys keep talking about mother's choices blah blah blah. Who cares. When baby is born those arguments are water under the bridge.

 

[Sassylassie]

See, all emotion.

1.) we are talking about how Laws are unjust. I know exactly how current laws work. Many stupid and unjust things have been legal over the years, that didn't make them JUST. Or was slavery, females as second class citizens and criminalized homosexuality all just because they were all legal?

2.) Lets see how women sound saying these things if abortion was still illegal

"Your honour I didn't mean to mother the child but I'm a lazy tastard and forgot oh well I don't like condoms, So your honour how can this be my fault, I don't wanna pay a dime for this kid it's not really mine cause the law refused to let me kill the baby. "

Guess your all for making abortion illegal again.

How can you support turning women into mindless baby factories? OR do you just mean women should be treated differently then Men with more rights? Only men can be deadbeats because women are genetically superior?

Still Sound stupid? Well that is how your remarks sound to me as a male, trying to force a man into bending to females will and calling yourselves victims is redundant. Inequality no, accountability yes. What's next ladies? Charging men with rape if you change your mind after a break up six months later "Oh your honour, sure I wanted to sleep with him then..but looking back that was a bad idea, arrest him please"

Wow what a know-it-all you are lad. I'm all for open dialog but talking to men whose nuckles drag on the ground well no thanks. You get out there and lobby for those poor lazy bastards who don't want to support their children, there are alot of males like you so you should have resounding support from the spineless brigadge. No respect but lots of support.

Kreskin good point, but the child means nothing in this scenerio now because thread has become "Oh dear lord I'm just a male alas it's me I don't want to support the child I fathered" discrimination-discrimination. I believe Bear has stated many times a man shouldn't have to bare the burden of paying for a child he didn't want but created, remember the man is the victim the child is just a "Thing" in this topic.

Bear you have taken this thread off the orginal topic you posted yourself and with you ever present lamenting and pity for the weak lame and lazy so don't point the finger back at the original question and pontificate that the rest of us who don't agree with you don't "Get" it. We get it loud and clear.


Danny Boy is now playing this thread is dead.

 

[CDNBear]

Hey Bear, you guys keep talking about mother's choices blah blah blah. Who cares. When baby is born those arguments are water under the bridge.

Absolutely correct, so the woman a completely sentient being is capable of providing a life filled with all the rights a child has at birth.

Food
clothes
shelter
love
education
etc.

And because she felt she was ready, yet he didn't, she has all the rights in the world to provide them herself.

Thanx for seeing it through our eyes.

 

[Kreskin]

Lets consider a child born from a rape. An unwanted pregnancy. The woman didn't want the child but one thing led to another and the child was born. Does the public school system differentiate between how kids were conceived? Why should the public pay for the education of this child? Answer - because we all share the responsibility no matter how the baby was conceived. It's the baby's interests, not the rape victim or rapist that is being considered. The circumstances around conception mean nothing once the kid is born.

With any birth why should we, the public, pay for the father's lack of responsibility? Why should I pay my own money into a welfare system to support the child when he, the father and one responsible for bringing the child to the world, argues he has no financial responsibility? Nonsense.

 

[cortex]

The abortion issue was poetically made clear to me by a little story a panhandling homeless man once told cortez...

he said son---I know you will think im crasy but i invented a time machine and went back to the time i was in my mothers womb----and just then as i was floating around that dark amniotic fluid--i thought --i sure hope my mother doesnt abort me---but then i remembered that as far as she was concerned i wasnt yet born ---so she had no idea what a freaking pain in the ass i would be to her and how i would basically destroy her whole life----so i just relaxed and thought im coming out --like it or not baby

i gave him 5 bucks

 

[Nikki]

I'm hoping you all sooner or later figure out this isn't about mother vs father, it's about the child. When the lightbulb goes off let me know.

You are still not seeing it. Look we aren't talking about the child or the parents. We are talking about the laws behind them. If the law was all about that child abortion would be illegal. You know that and I know that.

As far as morals go I agree entirely with you but as far as the law goes I think you are having trouble seperating the two and seeing it for what it is.

 

[Nikki]

Hey Bear, you guys keep talking about mother's choices blah blah blah. Who cares. When baby is born those arguments are water under the bridge.

How so? All parties involved should have the opportunity to opt out as far as the law is concerned. Females have the option of abortion and adoption. Males do not and all bear is saying is that in the eyes of the law they should have that option.

Males who choose to take it maybe scum but that isn't the point or what is being debated.

 

[CDNBear]

Wow what a know-it-all you are lad. I'm all for open dialog but talking to men whose nuckles drag on the ground well no thanks. You get out there and lobby for those poor lazy bastards who don't want to support their children, there are alot of males like you so you should have resounding support from the spineless brigadge. No respect but lots of support.

Kreskin good point, but the child means nothing in this scenerio now because thread has become "Oh dear lord I'm just a male alas it's me I don't want to support the child I fathered" discrimination-discrimination. I believe Bear has stated many times a man shouldn't have to bare the burden of paying for a child he didn't want but created, remember the man is the victim the child is just a "Thing" in this topic.

Bear you have taken this thread off the orginal topic you posted yourself and with you ever present lamenting and pity for the weak lame and lazy so don't point the finger back at the original question and pontificate that the rest of us who don't agree with you don't "Get" it. We get it loud and clear.


Danny Boy is now playing this thread is dead.

Sass as much as it truly pains me to say this, it is you and the rest that do not get it.

I haven't taken the topic off track, it is right where it should be.

You have to look at it in the cold dark eyes of legallity. Law is supposed to be blind. In this case it is not. That is our contention, nothing more.

Zzarchov has stated it quite clearly. You do not like the tables being turned, I understand that. The tables were turned on men and we don't like that. But then the tables were turned a little more and now all the choices lie with someone else.

If you can not see that, then why continuue to argue with you?

Because we are hoping that you will somehow drop the emotional moral ethics lessons and see it it from a legal and Charter rights point of view. I understand that this does not sit well with your moral or ethical ethos, that's fine and I agree with you. But from a legal and Charter rights point of view your morals and ethics are just that, yours and should bear no wait on the debate or laws in general.

If you call for support of the minority on issues such as SSM or Gay adoption or religious freedoms, using the Charter to enforce those views, then you can not simply turn off that meter because now the subject rubs your feelings the wrong way.

 

[Nikki]

Wow what a know-it-all you are lad. I'm all for open dialog but talking to men whose nuckles drag on the ground well no thanks. You get out there and lobby for those poor lazy bastards who don't want to support their children, there are alot of males like you so you should have resounding support from the spineless brigadge. No respect but lots of support.

You missed the entire point of what he was saying. How can you call men lazy bastards but then say it is ok for a female to then get an abortion to get out of parental rights because it is legal now?

Also is it really neccessary to call him a know it all? You have made some pretty arrogant know it all comments your self in some threads.

Kreskin good point, but the child means nothing in this scenerio now because thread has become "Oh dear lord I'm just a male alas it's me I don't want to support the child I fathered" discrimination-discrimination. I believe Bear has stated many times a man shouldn't have to bare the burden of paying for a child he didn't want but created, remember the man is the victim the child is just a "Thing" in this topic.

*rolls eyes* yes this is exactly what this thread has become.

This thread has and always was about legalities not morals.

Bear you have taken this thread off the orginal topic you posted yourself and with you ever present lamenting and pity for the weak lame and lazy so don't point the finger back at the original question and pontificate that the rest of us who don't agree with you don't "Get" it. We get it loud and clear.

NO he hasn't men who don't want to support their children may be lazy. Or maybe they are students who don't want the rest of their lives ruiened because of one night of sex and the female has decided she is going to keep the kid. Again Laws and Morals two different things entirely.

 

[CDNBear]

Lets consider a child born from a rape. An unwanted pregnancy. The woman didn't want the child but one thing led to another and the child was born. Does the public school system differentiate between how kids were conceived? Why should the public pay for the education of this child? Answer - because we all share the responsibility no matter how the baby was conceived. It's the baby's interests, not the rape victim or rapist that is being considered. The circumstances around conception mean nothing once the kid is born.

With any birth why should we, the public, pay for the father's lack of responsibility? Why should I pay my own money into a welfare system to support the child when he, the father and one responsible for bringing the child to the world, argues he has no financial responsibility? Nonsense.

Holy crap Kreskin that was astretch eh?

They teach the child because we have a public school system paid for by the public for the use of the citizenry.

Hey I pay a fortune for woman that get pregnant because they get a call from their case worker saying that their youngest is about to enter school so you should come in for some employment seminars, then run out and get pregnant again to avoid work.
So I wouldn't mind paying for a few thousand more, wtf.

 

[Kreskin]

You are still not seeing it. Look we aren't talking about the child or the parents. We are talking about the laws behind them. If the law was all about that child abortion would be illegal. You know that and I know that.

As far as morals go I agree entirely with you but as far as the law goes I think you are having trouble seperating the two and seeing it for what it is.

The law goes exactly as I go and it is all about the child. Child support is not spa treatment support Nikki. Not for pedicures or whatever you enjoy in life. I think you're having some trouble dealing with the law, the ethics, the morality and just about anything relevant to this discussion. It may be years before your lightbulb goes off but it will.

If you borrow money from you father can you argue before the law that you won't pay it back because mom could've aborted you and you wouldn't be indebted if she did? Might as well because that is the logic you guys are presenting.

 

[CDNBear]

You missed the entire point of what he was saying. How can you call men lazy bastards but then say it is ok for a female to then get an abortion to get out of parental rights because it is legal now?

Also is it really neccessary to call him a know it all? You have made some pretty arrogant know it all comments your self in some threads.





*rolls eyes* yes this is exactly what this thread has become.

This thread has and always was about legalities not morals.


NO he hasn't men who don't want to support their children may be lazy. Or maybe they are students who don't want the rest of their lives ruiened because of one night of sex and the female has decided she is going to keep the kid. Again Laws and Morals two different things entirely.

Wow when you come out like that, I hear the sounds of the Cavlry trumpets. lol.

 

[Kreskin]

I can't believe all the people arguing that we the public should support their own child just because the Mrs had a right to an abortion. I'm simply amazed at the collective lack of responsibility; morally, legally and ethically of these arguments. I didn't conceive your child, you did. Get off your butt and do something to help your own kid and quit whining about it.

 

[Nikki]

The law goes exactly as I go and it is all about the child. Child support is not spa treatment support Nikki. Not for pedicures or whatever you enjoy in life. I think you're having some trouble dealing with the law, the ethics, the morality and just about anything relevant to this discussion. It may be years before your lightbulb goes off but it will.

Ugh, Morality and law are two different things. If the law was soley based on morality abortion would be illegal as well.

If you borrow money from you father can you argue before the law that you won't pay it back because mom could've aborted you and you wouldn't be indebted if she did? Might as well because that is the logic you guys are presenting.

That has got to be the worst example you have provided yet. You can do better.

 

[selfactivated]

I think you're having some trouble dealing with the law, the ethics, the morality and just about anything relevant to this discussion. It may be years before your lightbulb goes off but it will.

Thats just rude. Can the conversation steer away from the charecter bashing. (all the way around)?