This is the kind of logic that lies behind hate speech laws. You cannot take another person's freedom away just because it is inconvenient for you.
Who's right to choose, a womans right to choose.
- Thread starter CDNBear
- Start date
This is the kind of logic that lies behind hate speech laws. You cannot take another person's freedom away just because it is inconvenient for you.
HERE HERE!
For someone that took me down a couple notches in another thread, you sure are making some sense here, while leaning in my direction.
Men have rights - women have rights - primary rights go to the as yet to be born child
The rights of the child include a mother and a father - a pair - a set - and while single parenthood makes it work as well as possible - there is always always something amiss in the life of that child.
Nobody is to blame - except for that moment of conception when nobody even gives the possibility a thought - especially when they are practicing safe sex - which can fail too.
If at all possible I would love to see men not be excluded from the pregnancy and birth of their child, and even if the couple are never going to share a domicile - they share a child - and must work carefully at
doing their duty - which they took on once nature had her way.
I think a fully endowed little human has that right to expect the adults who created him/her finish their work of love and nurturing if at all possible. We see the results too often in our free society of single parenting.
The rights of the child include a mother and a father - a pair - a set - and while single parenthood makes it work as well as possible - there is always always something amiss in the life of that child.
Nobody is to blame - except for that moment of conception when nobody even gives the possibility a thought - especially when they are practicing safe sex - which can fail too.
If at all possible I would love to see men not be excluded from the pregnancy and birth of their child, and even if the couple are never going to share a domicile - they share a child - and must work carefully at
doing their duty - which they took on once nature had her way.
I think a fully endowed little human has that right to expect the adults who created him/her finish their work of love and nurturing if at all possible. We see the results too often in our free society of single parenting.
I have always felt this way....
It should be law that if a women decide to go ahead and have a child that a father should have the right to, at the birth of that child, to sign over all of his parental right in the eyes of the law. This means he does not have to pay child support and is in no way expected to be a father. That being said he can't come back 10 yeras later demanding that he wants to be a father now. Not with out a) the mothers approval, b) the courts approval and c) a **** load of back payments.
I also feel a women should be able to do this as well. That being said. Never will the abortion thing be 50% upto a man. Unfortuntanly the man has no rights to that child until it is out of my body. Women have lots of reasons to not want children and sometimes accidents happen. Until men can bear their own children it won't be fair. Hell Life isn't fair get used to it.
How so? Women have lots of options. We have the option of birth control, making a man wear a condom, spericides etc. Unfortunantly for men we have one more option then they do. ABORTION. And no matter what it will always be our right. It goes both ways. Maybe the man wants her to get one and she tells him "no way". In that case like i stated above I think a man should be able to say he doesn't want to have anything to do with the child.
Unfortunantly for a man maybe they should be more careful about who they sleep with. Don't have a one night stand if you don't want a child or would want your child to be aborted. If you are in a stead realationship talk about what you are going to do. Its called responsible sex.
I can't believe people can misunderstand the real world as much as most men do in this argument. It's embarrassing to say I belong to this gender.
This is an unfair statement. Doctors won't perform that kind of procedure on a person if you are too young. My husband and I don't want children but because we are 22 they would never snip him.
What I am saying is that the woman has complete rights to her body. I think most of us can agree to that (except for the pro-lifers I suppose) right?
Okay, so if a woman has complete rights to her body, why is it that she also controls the future of the man she chose to have sex with? Both of them made the choice to have sex. But why is it that only one of them gets to choose if they will be burdened with the responsibility of parenthood?
If a woman chooses to opt out of parenthood, everyone is supportive. If a man wants to opt out, he's a dead beat. Its as if women have the right to dictate the future of the man she chooses to have sex with simply because she is female. I don't see how that is fair. I do see how that is a sexist attitude.
This is where the formula that I presented comes into play. It isn't perfect, but I think it is the best compromise we can have given the nature of the sexes. Remember, it is all about promoting optimal freedoms while still maintaining the framework of society.
Or instead of making empty comments that mean nothing, you could give an argument supported by foundations?
I meant to apologize for being as harsh as I was in that thread. I'm only on every once in a while, and it seemed that every time I saw your name it was stuck in with the rest of the Liberal slandering crowd.
As a person who quit a degree in Policy Studies partially because of the behaviour of people, and their maturity regarding who they view as those on the other side, I'm hyper-sensitive to comments like 'I can hear the Liberals whine.'
After reviewing some of your other posts I do have to say that I was mistaken and welcome you to the fight to rid our world of idiot politicians.
Again this is because I am the one, me being a women, that has to carry it to term, give birth to the thing etc. Therefore it is 100% my decision.
Yes it does, because the thing (yes it is a thing) is a parasite inside my body that can’t survive without me.
So forcing a women to go through with an unwanted pregnancy is ok? That doesn’t infringe on her rights? Are you kidding me? Until you can take that child and put it inside the man that so desperately wants the little brat its all my decision if you don’t like it. Don’t have sex with women who don’t want them.
Yes.
Working within the guidelines of the law: ""Forcing a woman," wrote the Chief Justice, Brian Dickson, "by threat of criminal sanction to carry a foetus to term unless she meets certain criteria unrelated to her own priorities and aspirations, is a profound interference with a woman's body and this a violation of her security of the person." http://www.duhaime.org/family/ca-abor.aspx
I can't think of a woman in the country that should disagree with this ... shades of the Handmaiden come to mind.
I think the problem is that there are some fathers that want to opt out of everything, including financial responsibility and there are some fathers that want to opt into everything but the mom. People like that should probably get a puppy.
I agree with your libertarian "live and let live" view on this subject.
A man has every right to be a father. I hope he finds a woman that wants to have his children because forcing a woman to bear his children (isn't that from the stone ages, errr, I mean the 1950s) is a serious violation of a woman's rights.
A woman cannot force a man to be a father, the most she can expect is that he provide financially and even that is a struggle for many women in Canada today - it's not exactly something men step up and volunteer for.
If a woman has serious drug issues and asks the father to take the child, he better get that in writing with a lawyer right away. Chances are a Judge would award sole custody to a stable father if the mother has drug problems. If a woman wants to give a child up for adoption, I'm pretty sure there are laws governing the rights of the father providing he hasn't been absent for 9 months.
Agreed
Your confusing the right of an abortion with common sense parental responsibility. News flash - Not everyone wants an abortion.
He has no way of opting out because he is not carrying the baby. Completely irrelevant.
He had sex with her and she's having a baby. Nothing is being dictated to anyone. Abortion rights having nothing to do with having responsibility. Again, you're confusing completely different issues.
That formula has no relevance in the slightest. Just because woman A has the right to have an abortion has little to do with woman A not wanting one. You guys throw the options around like it's yesterdays lunch. `Have an abortion, give it up for adoption'...come on man. Those willy nilly options discussions are rediculous. The baby born has everything to do with the parental father. Buck up or be a deadbeat.
Men and women can get snipped in their early twenties, they just have to doctor shop. I know a man that made that choice many years ago and has been happy ever since.
Well a guy better make sure he knows where a girl stands then before he screws her.
The point is he should be able to. If a women can have options so should the man.
Ok, so its alright for a women to have an abortion. If a women has that abortion she is not told that she is a dead beat. But god forbid a man wants out!!!
Come to Alberta, Doctor shop then tell me that. Go anywhere in the USA doctor shop and then tell me that.
Besides which its still an unfair statement as far as sex is concerned. Young people have sex its a fact. Not all of them are ready to be parents. You think because a man or a women doesn't want to be a parent right now that they just shouldn't have sex? Or worse they should get snipped!? Not going to happen. So my next question is then.. the man and the women are clearly not ready for a child the man wants the women to have an abortion because he isn't ready for that child because he is only 19 years old. The women then decides "nope I am going to have this kid and you are going to help me take care of it". That is BULL ****!!! That man shouldn't have to take care of that child, and he shouldn't then be labelled a deadbeat because of it.
It seems to me that we're approaching this from the point of blaming the woman for something that is within her rights. The real issues are that a man wants a child, but knocking up a woman doesn't satisfy his needs OR a man doesn't want a child, but he consented to that actions that would result in a child. Seems to me the man needs psychological help.
Last time I checked a woman couldn't force a medical procedure on a man. When did that right begin?
Call her all you want. The lunatic right already does.