Who's right to choose, a womans right to choose.

[Ariadne]

Come to Alberta, Doctor shop then tell me that. Go anywhere in the USA doctor shop and then tell me that.

I am in Alberta and I'm pretty sure that if a man went to his family doctor and said, at the age of 22, that he wanted a vasectomy, he would be counselled in the fact that 22 year olds change their minds so he shouldn't reduce his options. Doctors know this based on how many vasectomies they've tried to reverse. If the 22 year old is intelligent, articulate and can demonstrate that he understands the consequences of his actions and clearly believes that he will never want children, my guess is that a medical procedure will not be refused. If he said that he wants multiple sex partners without the responsibility of children, I bet the doctor will turn him away.

 

[Nikki]

Last time I checked a woman couldn't force a medical procedure on a man. When did that right begin?

Call her all you want. The lunatic right already does.

I am not saying that a women should be forced into an abortion at all. Where the F*** did I say that!? I said that a man should be able to opt out. Did you read my posts?

 

[Ariadne]

Besides which its still an unfair statement as far as sex is concerned. Young people have sex its a fact. Not all of them are ready to be parents. You think because a man or a women doesn't want to be a parent right now that they just shouldn't have sex? Or worse they should get snipped!? Not going to happen. So my next question is then.. the man and the women are clearly not ready for a child the man wants the women to have an abortion because he isn't ready for that child because he is only 19 years old. The women then decides "nope I am going to have this kid and you are going to help me take care of it". That is BULL ****!!! That man shouldn't have to take care of that child, and he shouldn't then be labelled a deadbeat because of it.

I think that if people want to have sport sex without consequences, they better be very, very careful. There are plenty of options for preventing pregnancy for men and women ... it's not like entrapment is an option in 2006 Canada. If the man is in no position to have children he has two choice: keep his pants on or use birth control.

 

[Nikki]

I am in Alberta and I'm pretty sure that if a man went to his family doctor and said, at the age of 22, that he wanted a vasectomy, he would be counselled in the fact that 22 year olds change their minds so he shouldn't reduce his options. Doctors know this based on how many vasectomies they've tried to reverse. If the 22 year old is intelligent, articulate and can demonstrate that he understands the consequences of his actions and clearly believes that he will never want children, my guess is that a medical procedure will not be refused. If he said that he wants multiple sex partners without the responsibility of children, I bet the doctor will turn him away.

hehehe, Actually I have checked in Alberta. I had to debate this in class 3 years ago. I called 62 family clinics in calgary and they all said "no way".

Hmm so do you think its right for the doctor to turn him away for that? I bet he wouldn't turn away a 42 year old man that just wants to screw around.

Like I said before. Its still an unfair comment as I explained in the rest of my post which you ignored.

 

[Kreskin]

I am not saying that a women should be forced into an abortion at all. Where the F*** did I say that!? I said that a man should be able to opt out. Did you read my posts?

I responded to your "options" comment. I couldn't give a rats butt if a woman has an option that a guy doesn't. I'm concerned with the welfare of a child. If he doesn't want to opt in he shouldn't opt in in the first place.

 

[Nikki]

I responded to your "options" comment. I couldn't give a rats butt if a woman has an option that a guy doesn't. I'm concerned with the welfare of a child. If he doesn't want to opt in he shouldn't opt in in the first place.

And on what planet do you think its better for a child to have a 'father' in its life that doesn't care about it? That is traumatizing for a little child! It all comes back to greed! Money Money Money. If you aren't ready for that child and aren't able to raise it on your own. Don't have one! Or you have it and you give it up for adoption. There is no rule to say that you must abort or keep it.

 

[Ariadne]

I am not saying that a women should be forced into an abortion at all. Where the F*** did I say that!? I said that a man should be able to opt out. Did you read my posts?

I have an idea. I've heard that the Catholics have this really cool method of birth control called the rhythm method where they whip out the thermometer and see what's up with the woman. How about men start using a little initiative! Men could use the thermometer and then decide if they want to opt out of starting a family - that would solve all the problems and at the very least, initiate a conversation about the consequences of their actions.

 

[LittleRunningGag]

Your confusing the right of an abortion with common sense parental responsibility. News flash - Not everyone wants an abortion.

No I'm not, and she doesn't have to have one. No one is forcing her. If she doesn't want the child, but still doesn't want an abortion, she can give it up. Either way, as it stands the man has no choice. None. He can't decide to give it up. He can't decide to have an abortion (again, he shouldn't because it isn't his body).

He has no way of opting out because he is not carrying the baby. Completely irrelevant.

No, he has no way of opting out because as it stands we have a unfair system. Women have complete and utter control over the outcome. Again, I'm not advocating that men have the ability to force an abortion. I'm advocating that men should have the option of saying, I don't want to have a child. It doesn't force the woman into doing anything, it simply adds another element to the decision.

He had sex with her and she's having a baby. Nothing is being dictated to anyone. Abortion rights having nothing to do with having responsibility. Again, you're confusing completely different issues.

He had sex with her? What about she had sex with him? They are both equally responsible for the act of conception, why can't both expect equal rights when it comes to deciding what to do with their future? Why does the woman decide? Because she has a uterus is not an answer.

That formula has no relevance in the slightest. Just because woman A has the right to have an abortion has little to do with woman A not wanting one.

Again, no one is forcing her to have one. Who said anything about forcing a woman to have an abortion?

You guys throw the options around like it's yesterdays lunch. `Have an abortion, give it up for adoption'...come on man. Those willy nilly options discussions are rediculous.

Why?

The baby born has everything to do with the parental father. Buck up or be a deadbeat.

This argument could be used to justify laws against abortion. The 'you had sex, deal with it' argument doesn't fly with women, so why should it with men?

 

[LittleRunningGag]

I responded to your "options" comment. I couldn't give a rats butt if a woman has an option that a guy doesn't. I'm concerned with the welfare of a child. If he doesn't want to opt in he shouldn't opt in in the first place.

And that is the same argument made to women by pro-lifers. Hypocracy, I see you now.

 

[Kreskin]

And on what planet do you think its better for a child to have a 'father' in its life that doesn't care about it? That is traumatizing for a little child!

He doesn't have to be there but he can assist with the expenses. An education that will cost over $100k!

Have you got kids? Pretty cheap to raise aren't they?

 

[LittleRunningGag]

I have an idea. I've heard that the Catholics have this really cool method of birth control called the rhythm method where they whip out the thermometer and see what's up with the woman. How about men start using a little initiative! Men could use the thermometer and then decide if they want to opt out of starting a family - that would solve all the problems and at the very least, initiate a conversation about the consequences of their actions.

No method of birth control is 100%. Claiming that it is does nothing to further your argument.

 

[Kreskin]

And that is the same argument made to women by pro-lifers. Hypocracy, I see you now.

I suppose you want to lactate as well. Go ahead, put together a Libertarian platform on it.

 

[Ariadne]

hehehe, Actually I have checked in Alberta. I had to debate this in class 3 years ago. I called 62 family clinics in calgary and they all said "no way".

Hmm so do you think its right for the doctor to turn him away for that? I bet he wouldn't turn away a 42 year old man that just wants to screw around.

Like I said before. Its still an unfair comment as I explained in the rest of my post which you ignored.

I have no doubt that as a general inquiry question, every doctor would say no way. On a case by case assessment, I bet they say yes when appropriate.

I doubt a 42 year old would give that as a reason ... it's easy to understand why 42 year olds don't want children.

 

[LittleRunningGag]

Anyway, I'm off for the night. I'll try and come by tomarrow to continue the discussion (or see where it went while I was gone). Thanks for the mental exercise.

 

[Nikki]

He doesn't have to be there but he can assist with the expenses. An education that will cost over $100k!

Have you got kids? Pretty cheap to raise aren't they?

I belive I said I don't want kids. Secondly I put myself through post secondary not my parents. And third yeah school costs alot why should the man have to carry that responsibility if he doesn't want it!? Just because you say "Oh well I am having this kid and keeping it so now you are F***ed for the rest of your life" doesn't make it right!

 

[LittleRunningGag]

I suppose you want to lactate as well. Go ahead, put together a Libertarian platform on it.

And if I wanted to I could. That, I think, is the point.

 

[Nikki]

I suppose you want to lactate as well. Go ahead, put together a Libertarian platform on it.

Oh god, thanks alot! Now I am going to have to listen to him for the rest of the night put together a libertarian platform on the matter. :grin:

On a side note.. why do we have this smiley face... :thefinger: but I can't say F***

 

[Nikki]

I have no doubt that as a general inquiry question, every doctor would say no way. On a case by case assessment, I bet they say yes when appropriate.

I doubt a 42 year old would give that as a reason ... it's easy to understand why 42 year olds don't want children.

a normal 42 year old wouldn't give that reason but not everyone is normal are they?

Doctors hardley ever say yes! My dad had to go through so much **** when he was 26 years old to get one and he had 2 kids already!!!!

But generally you have to have a really good reason for it and for a 22 year old to say "well I don't want kids" isn't going to cut it with most trusting physicians. Not only that if you were a guy would you be willing to go to just anyone to get that procedure done?? I am betting not...and if you are... well you're crazy.

 

[Kreskin]

I belive I said I don't want kids. Secondly I put myself through post secondary not my parents. And third yeah school costs alot why should the man have to carry that responsibility if he doesn't want it!? Just because you say "Oh well I am having this kid and keeping it so now you are F***ed for the rest of your life" doesn't make it right!

So she should just be F'd for the rest of her life, as well as the kid. Or she should have the abortion or ship it off to another family? Get real.

 

[Kreskin]

Oh god, thanks alot! Now I am going to have to listen to him for the rest of the night put together a libertarian platform on the matter. :grin:

On a side note.. why do we have this smiley face... :thefinger: but I can't say F***

I had a feeling you argue from the position of never having a child. Explains alot.