All you have to go by in trying to figure out the answer to that question are books to be read and tales to be told. All of which is hearsay which, in a court of law is considered to be inadmissible. Unless you have a time machine, and can travel back to those times and see for yourself, you cannot know. And neither can I.
Who was this man Jesus Christ?
- Thread starter Count_Lothian
- Start date
Ideas are easier to track than people. Christ is an idea, a philosophy and a title given to an enlightened being. Seems that this Jesus dude was given the title posumously, 300 years after he was (if he existed at all) buried.
lIGHTEN UP ON SAUL cLIFFY, He WAS A STUNNED man by the power, he is not the only one
Jesus is many things to many people. To the Jews Jesus is a misguided Rabbi who suffered from a messiah complex and wanted them to believe he was their messiah. They rejected him and asked that he be put to death for blasphemy. The Christians believe Jesus's death was necessary to fulfill a prophesy. He was the human sacrifice for our sins and whoever believed that would have eternal life. The disciples never quite understood Jesus and doubted most of what he said. And when Peter called Jesus the Christ, Jesus ordered his disciples not to tell anyone. So how were the people to know? Who was going to tell the people what Jesus was?
And then there are those who think Jesus was just a man, a Rabbi who tried to fix a broken religion. He was rejected and crucified.
What did Jesus think he was? Jesus believed he was chosen to bring the Kingdom of God to replace the old order and he saw himself as the King of this Kingdom.
But it all took a bad turn when he was instead rejected by the Jews, tried, convicted and put to death for blasphemy. In desperation he cried to God.
Matthew 27:46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" (which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?").
Rather than see this as a mistake/misunderstanding Christians believe his death was God's human sacrifice, Jesus was the sacrificial lamb. He promise to return and reunite the dead with their souls in a final resurrection so all who believed will have eternal life and the rest will perish. This event is scheduled to happen at his second coming.
And then there are those who think Jesus was just a man, a Rabbi who tried to fix a broken religion. He was rejected and crucified.
What did Jesus think he was? Jesus believed he was chosen to bring the Kingdom of God to replace the old order and he saw himself as the King of this Kingdom.
But it all took a bad turn when he was instead rejected by the Jews, tried, convicted and put to death for blasphemy. In desperation he cried to God.
Matthew 27:46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" (which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?").
Rather than see this as a mistake/misunderstanding Christians believe his death was God's human sacrifice, Jesus was the sacrificial lamb. He promise to return and reunite the dead with their souls in a final resurrection so all who believed will have eternal life and the rest will perish. This event is scheduled to happen at his second coming.
THAT's what it means? I always thought it was the Prayer to Quarterback Manning, and the translation was "Eli, Eli, I'm open! Throw me the ball!"
Not to be confused with the Other Quarterback Manning, whose name rhymes with "Satan." Coincidence? I think not!
Get a red letter bible. It highlights the words actually spoken by Jesus. There are a lot of things said about Jesus and many claims made about Jesus appearing to the apostles after his resurrection. Both John and Paul claim Jesus appeared to them in a vision and revealed himself to them. But personal psychological experience such as hearing voices and seeing apparitions cannot be corroborated. They could be delusions or hallucinations suffered by the claimants.
Reading the words actually spoken by Jesus allows a better understanding of the man and what he was suffering from. The medical term 'messiah complex' is one such description of what was causing Jesus's delusions and why his messianic ambition cost him his life.
But does the Bible also help to understand the people who have turned a human tragedy into a religion and the crucifixion of Jesus for blaspheming into a human sacrifice for the atonement of the worlds sins. How did a local event like the crucifixion of Jesus who was tried, convicted and put to death for blasphemy implicate the whole world in his death?
Ironically it was the Jews that created the environment for the Jesus story. They gave us Adam and Eve, Abraham, Moses, Noah and the great flood. But lost the story of Jesus to the Hellenic Jews who created the early Christian creed that made Jesus a God and not a victim of religious bigotry.
So now we have the choice of a personal God in Jesus. The messianic ambition of Jesus continues to live on and even his return expected in his second coming. It is paradoxically the Gentile converts to Christianity that suffer from such nostalgia whereas the Jews have long buried the past incident of mistaken identity. Their unnecessary crucifixion of Jesus, a man suffering from delusions that might have easily been recognizable today, but religious zealotry concluded otherwise.
It was the Romans that mocked Jesus with the title king of the Jews and crucified him. It was the Romans who later under their Emperor Constantine resurrected Christianity and Jesus and made it the state religion. Was it not said. Render unto Cesar what is Cesar's and render unto God what is Gods.
Mark 12:17 Then Jesus said to them, "Give back to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's." And they were amazed at him.
Remember it was Jesus that said not to preach to the Gentiles. But the Romans would have none of that and gave the world the human sacrifice they demanded to atone for their sins. So now we have both a barbaric form of torture to punish criminals the crucifixion and a human sacrifice for sinners all combined in one. It is a rather unsophisticated union of two contradictory narratives, but it has caught the fancy of a quarter of the worlds Christian population. Finally there is a religion even Gentiles and pagans can accept and not be Jewish at the same time. How great is that!!!!
Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: "Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans.
His name in Hebrew would have been: Jeshua bar Joseph. Jesus the son of Joseph.
He was, according to all Christian belief's a human male in every sense of that word. He got hungry; he got tired, he got angry; he got sad; he felt joy; he loved others; he appreciated the love of his mother and father; he worked as a carpenter so he undoubtedly had callouses on his hands; and he was likely attracted to the opposite sex.
BUT, he was also God. He was both true man and true God.
You can believe or not. Personally, I believe.
He was, according to all Christian belief's a human male in every sense of that word. He got hungry; he got tired, he got angry; he got sad; he felt joy; he loved others; he appreciated the love of his mother and father; he worked as a carpenter so he undoubtedly had callouses on his hands; and he was likely attracted to the opposite sex.
BUT, he was also God. He was both true man and true God.
You can believe or not. Personally, I believe.
There isn't a single verse in the bible where Jesus calls Joseph his father. Here is why!!!
Why did he believe his Father was God?
Joseph told Jesus he was not his real father and it is quite unlikely anyone stepped forward and claimed to be Jesus's real father because adultery was punishable by death. So what was a disturbed young Jesus to do? He searched the scriptures for answers. There is evidence of his early obsession with scriptures. At the age of 12 he was already well versed in the Bible and called the temple his Father's house. And henceforth he called God his Father even before his parents.
Luke 2:46 After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions.
47 Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers.
48 When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him, "Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you."
49 "Why were you searching for me?" he asked. "Didn't you know I had to be in my Father's house?"
Superman had much the same experience growing up. The form is thousands of years old, same as every other sun king.
Was Jesus Lord, liar and a Lunatic and not The trinity God, Son and Spirit?
Another trinity is supported in the same scriptures, according to C.S. Lewis.
The fact that there are so many references by Jesus to his various titles and as a 30 year old man was unmarried, did not hold a job and every sentence that came out of his mouth praised God. Jesus performed miracles, raised the dead and healed people. Jesus was found guilty of blasphemy and asked to be crucified. Can theses attributes of Jesus suggest an alternate triune of personalities a more morbid trinity of sorts suggesting Jesus was Lord, Liar and Lunatic, all three in One. Sorry, textual criticism.
Scripture proving Jesus was Lord, a liar and/or a lunatic.
Deuteronomy 18: 20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death."
1. To be put to death one had to be a false prophet. Jesus was put to death for claiming to be something he was not. That is falsehood or lying.
2. Knowing it is already commanded by God to Moses not to suffer false prophets, they must be put to death. Jesus was threatened with stoning for blaspheming several times, he even had to slip away and hide from the mob. But he did not stop calling himself their messiah and Christ. He knew the scriptures as well as the Jews and yet he defied them to follow through which they finally did and asked that he be put to death. Only a lunatic would ignore repeated warnings and take the chance he took. He was crucified as a result of his lunacy.
3. There are many many verses where he is called Lord.
So we have the trilemma, Lord, Liar and a Lunatic.
Please understand even though I am applying critical thinking and textual criticism. What is revealed to me by reading God's word in the Bible is what makes such discussions possible.
Another trinity is supported in the same scriptures, according to C.S. Lewis.
The fact that there are so many references by Jesus to his various titles and as a 30 year old man was unmarried, did not hold a job and every sentence that came out of his mouth praised God. Jesus performed miracles, raised the dead and healed people. Jesus was found guilty of blasphemy and asked to be crucified. Can theses attributes of Jesus suggest an alternate triune of personalities a more morbid trinity of sorts suggesting Jesus was Lord, Liar and Lunatic, all three in One. Sorry, textual criticism.
Scripture proving Jesus was Lord, a liar and/or a lunatic.
Deuteronomy 18: 20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death."
1. To be put to death one had to be a false prophet. Jesus was put to death for claiming to be something he was not. That is falsehood or lying.
2. Knowing it is already commanded by God to Moses not to suffer false prophets, they must be put to death. Jesus was threatened with stoning for blaspheming several times, he even had to slip away and hide from the mob. But he did not stop calling himself their messiah and Christ. He knew the scriptures as well as the Jews and yet he defied them to follow through which they finally did and asked that he be put to death. Only a lunatic would ignore repeated warnings and take the chance he took. He was crucified as a result of his lunacy.
3. There are many many verses where he is called Lord.
So we have the trilemma, Lord, Liar and a Lunatic.
Please understand even though I am applying critical thinking and textual criticism. What is revealed to me by reading God's word in the Bible is what makes such discussions possible.
'Christ'is the English version of the greek word meaning 'king'.
Jesus was a jewish rabbi and he was never king of anything nor would he have ever made such a claim.
Why did Jesus find it so difficult to convince the people of his time that he was a messiah? Let us examine some of the methods he used to shed light on why he failed in his mission, Which was to save the lost people of Israel.
Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. " -
Jesus tried to convince the people John tbe Baptist was the Elijah, The Elijah that was to come before the Lord. But John denied he was Elijah.
John 1:21 "Then who are you? " they inquired. "Are you Elijah? " He said, "I am not. " "Are you the Prophet? " He answered, "No. "
John the Baptiat was expecting a messiah that would deliver the people from their sins and Roman occupation. But instead Jesus went around playing doctor which cause John to doubt Jesus was the promised deliverer.
Matthew 11:3 to ask Him, "Are You the One who was to come, Or should we look for someone else? . . .
Jesus tried to convince the people through miracles that he was the messiah. But the people ignored his trickery and threatened to stone him for blasphemy.
John 10:33 "We are not stoning You for any good work, " said the Jews, "but for blasphemy, Because You, Who are a man, Declare Yourself to be God. "
Jesus then tried other gimmicks to convince the people. He tried to destroy the traditional family. That didn't work.
Matthew 10:34 "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, But a sword. 35 For I have come to turn ""a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother, A daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law"
36 a man"s enemies will be the members of his own household. "[c]
He promised them they would be saved if they ate his flesh and drank his blood. The people walked away in disgust.
John 6: 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, And I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, And I in them.
66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.
Jesus's family and the people who knew him were convinced he was a demon possessed madman.
Mark 3:21 When His family heard about this, They went out to take custody of Him, Saying, "He is out of His mind. "
John 10:20 Many of them said, "He is demon-possessed and insane. Why would you listen to Him? . . .
Jesus seeing he was losing the people decided to lay low for a while. He told his disciple to keep his identity a secret.
Matthew 16:20 Then He admonished the disciples not to tell anyone that He was the Christ.
So what made Jesus come out of the closet and go against he better instincts and self preservation. His drinking and alcoholism finally got to him. After some heavy drinking at Passover festival Jesus went out to pray. He prayed to God to take away the cup he was drinking from. His alcoholism was now apparent. He even stumbled and fell on his face in his drunken stupor.
Matthew 26:39 Going a little farther, He fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, If it is possible, May this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, But as you will. "
The next day Jesus was arrested and tried, Convicted and crucified. On the cross Jesus lamented. For someone with a messiah complex it had to be disappointing.
Matthew 27:46 About the ninth hour, Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, Lema sabachthani? " which means, "My God, My God, Why have you forsaken Me? "
Even the Pope declared Jesus's life was a failure and the cross a failure of God.
Pope Francis said during his whirlwind U. S. Tour. "And if at times OUR EFFORTS AND WORKS SEEM TO FAIL AND PRODUCE NO FRUIT, We need to REMEMBER that WE ARE FOLLOWERS OF JESUS we are followers of Jesus. . . And His LIFE, Humanly speaking, ENDED IN FAILURE, THE FAILURE OF THE CROSS. "
When you don"t understand something, When desperation hits you then look at the cross. THAT IS THE GREAT FAILURE OF GOD, THAT IS THE DESTRUCTION OF GOD, AND IT'S A CHALLENGE TO OUR FAITH.
Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. " -
Jesus tried to convince the people John tbe Baptist was the Elijah, The Elijah that was to come before the Lord. But John denied he was Elijah.
John 1:21 "Then who are you? " they inquired. "Are you Elijah? " He said, "I am not. " "Are you the Prophet? " He answered, "No. "
John the Baptiat was expecting a messiah that would deliver the people from their sins and Roman occupation. But instead Jesus went around playing doctor which cause John to doubt Jesus was the promised deliverer.
Matthew 11:3 to ask Him, "Are You the One who was to come, Or should we look for someone else? . . .
Jesus tried to convince the people through miracles that he was the messiah. But the people ignored his trickery and threatened to stone him for blasphemy.
John 10:33 "We are not stoning You for any good work, " said the Jews, "but for blasphemy, Because You, Who are a man, Declare Yourself to be God. "
Jesus then tried other gimmicks to convince the people. He tried to destroy the traditional family. That didn't work.
Matthew 10:34 "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, But a sword. 35 For I have come to turn ""a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother, A daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law"
36 a man"s enemies will be the members of his own household. "[c]
He promised them they would be saved if they ate his flesh and drank his blood. The people walked away in disgust.
John 6: 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, And I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, And I in them.
66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.
Jesus's family and the people who knew him were convinced he was a demon possessed madman.
Mark 3:21 When His family heard about this, They went out to take custody of Him, Saying, "He is out of His mind. "
John 10:20 Many of them said, "He is demon-possessed and insane. Why would you listen to Him? . . .
Jesus seeing he was losing the people decided to lay low for a while. He told his disciple to keep his identity a secret.
Matthew 16:20 Then He admonished the disciples not to tell anyone that He was the Christ.
So what made Jesus come out of the closet and go against he better instincts and self preservation. His drinking and alcoholism finally got to him. After some heavy drinking at Passover festival Jesus went out to pray. He prayed to God to take away the cup he was drinking from. His alcoholism was now apparent. He even stumbled and fell on his face in his drunken stupor.
Matthew 26:39 Going a little farther, He fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, If it is possible, May this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, But as you will. "
The next day Jesus was arrested and tried, Convicted and crucified. On the cross Jesus lamented. For someone with a messiah complex it had to be disappointing.
Matthew 27:46 About the ninth hour, Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, Lema sabachthani? " which means, "My God, My God, Why have you forsaken Me? "
Even the Pope declared Jesus's life was a failure and the cross a failure of God.
Pope Francis said during his whirlwind U. S. Tour. "And if at times OUR EFFORTS AND WORKS SEEM TO FAIL AND PRODUCE NO FRUIT, We need to REMEMBER that WE ARE FOLLOWERS OF JESUS we are followers of Jesus. . . And His LIFE, Humanly speaking, ENDED IN FAILURE, THE FAILURE OF THE CROSS. "
When you don"t understand something, When desperation hits you then look at the cross. THAT IS THE GREAT FAILURE OF GOD, THAT IS THE DESTRUCTION OF GOD, AND IT'S A CHALLENGE TO OUR FAITH.