What's up with Immigration in the US?

[Toro]

Re: RE: What's up with Immigr

I asked a question and got shit on instead of an answer, why is it necessary to export American production offshore and who does it serve.

Its not necessary.

Its cheaper.

If American companies have a cost disadvantage, then they will get wiped out.

Protecting mature domestic industries drains wealth out of an economy. This is pretty much a universal truism amongst economists who aren't on the payroll of manufacturing associations.

 

[darkbeaver]

RE: What's up with Immigr

Thank you Toro that's very civilized of you, so it's not necessary and it's cheaper. I understand about the economics and the truism but what I don't understand is how an economy that does not provide for it's citizens is considered good, I think that many economists would rather not have to consider citizens but only consider money. If all the goods are manufactured in other countrys how is that good for America and Americans and what do they do to earn a living.

 

[Toro]

Re: RE: What's up with Immigr

Thank you Toro that's very civilized of you, so it's not necessary and it's cheaper. I understand about the economics and the truism but what I don't understand is how an economy that does not provide for it's citizens is considered good, I think that many economists would rather not have to consider citizens but only consider money. If all the goods are manufactured in other countrys how is that good for America and Americans and what do they do to earn a living.

Economics is all about a concept called utility Beav.

In economics, utility is a measure of the happiness or satisfaction gained consuming good and services.

Now, of course when they're talking about "happiness" or "satisfaction", they aren't talking about the happiness or satisfaction of trees or concrete buildings. They are talking about people's happiness and satisfaction.

In the simplest terms, if I am poor and only have $200 to spend, I can get more food and clothes - ie. utility - for $200 to feed my child if I don't have to pay higher for goods that are protected by trade barriers.

Trade barriers benefit a few at the expense of everyone else.

 

[darkbeaver]

DB, I already apologized, I can't do anything beyond that, other than ignore your posts, which I will try my damnest to do from now on.

Don't worry about it I was not entirely crushed by the incident nor did I consider it beyond protocol, and I'm sure my sleep will return to normal after a few days. Feel free to slag me anytime you want, you have endured much from me,I am certainly not the pick of the litter.

PS: It's damnedest not damnest.

 

[jimmoyer]

Sanch, again, a good post.

You have it right now. The Wall is not an alternative
to AMNESTY.

We got to do both.

There should be some amnesty, but not blanket
amnesty.

And there should be a Wall, so they can enter legally
without fear, without living in the shadow.

And, we need to invest in Mexico in a way that
helps all those who take the risk to invest, and to
do it in a way that does share more of the opportunity
and wealth.


1. The Wall.
2. Welcome Them.
3. Make Mexico the King of Manufacture the right way.

 

[darkbeaver]

Re: RE: What's up with Immigr

Thank you Toro that's very civilized of you, so it's not necessary and it's cheaper. I understand about the economics and the truism but what I don't understand is how an economy that does not provide for it's citizens is considered good, I think that many economists would rather not have to consider citizens but only consider money. If all the goods are manufactured in other countrys how is that good for America and Americans and what do they do to earn a living.

Economics is all about a concept called utility Beav.

In economics, utility is a measure of the happiness or satisfaction gained consuming good and services.

Now, of course when they're talking about "happiness" or "satisfaction", they aren't talking about the happiness or satisfaction of trees or concrete buildings. They are talking about people's happiness and satisfaction.

In the simplest terms, if I am poor and only have $200 to spend, I can get more food and clothes - ie. utility - for $200 to feed my child if I don't have to pay higher for goods that are protected by trade barriers.

Trade barriers benefit a few at the expense of everyone else.

Cool,but where do you get the $200.00 bucks? And how do you work necessity into the equation or is that part of utility?

 

[Toro]

RE: What's up with Immigr

Necessity is the most essential utility.

 

[darkbeaver]

RE: What's up with Immigr

So if you need you'll bleed.

 

[darkbeaver]

RE: What's up with Immigr

So if you need you'll bleed. I'll just assume that the $200.00 bucks don't come from China as well.

 

[jimmoyer]

If man created the world in his own image of what
perfection means there is no doubt that the Laws
of Nature would still remind us that it exists and
defeat our best and most worthy plans.

There may be a reason a flower blooms and then dies.

And we will rail against this, thinking it unnecessary.

Why not bloom and never die?

Why hardships ?

Can we not eradicate hardship ?

What waste and pain is this ?

 

[unclepercy]

Jimmoyer

Screw the naysayers, when confronted with hard data, they begin to nitpick. Between 1993 and 2003 the economies of the three NAFTA members increased by United States:38%, Canada:30%, Mexico:30%.

We are the largest free trading bloc in the world with over 400 million people and rising, why not add more to them? The biggest issue when NAFTA was created was the argument that businesses would move South of the border, instead, they moved across the Pacific. I have heard about CAFTA recently but I don't think that transpired, we should expand NAFTA further South. Latin American people are very hard working individuals, they can amke a bright future for themselves.

Mexico should do something and solicit American manufacturing from China to Mexico, I hae no clue what, but they should get the ball rolling. North and South America has a future is we play our cards right. That's the way I see it.

Hey, buddy, I usually agree with you, but you are looking through a telescope - and only at economic issues. I am addressing the social dilemma that I see around me. Whites and blacks who need social aid are getting very angry, deep inside, when they see the Mexicans suckling at the national teat, leaving it dry for us, the elderly, the handicapped, the veterans, etc. We earned it. They did not.

There is a tremendous culture clash between Mexicans and Americans. Not so with Canadians and Americans. Aren't you even aware of it? The first barrier is the language. But there are many more - the patriarchal family system is stronger in Mexican families. Bull to all your hardworking crap - you aren't giving the whole picture.

Discuss the spiritual differences in our beliefs. Mexicans believe in ghosts - seriously. I'm not kidding.

Discuss the high school dropout rate of Mexicans vs. middle class American students - in the same area.

Discuss the crime rate, the average life expectancy, the medical care, the developmental stages of childhood, Mexican vs. American (I mean European), also 500 other things I could sit here all night and think of that have little to do with economics.

Come on - everything is not about the almighty dollar. Especially ghosts. I'm against the Mexicans. They destroyed my Mother's house. They screwed me on the rent. And they dealt drugs out of my Mother's bedroom. Now black women are living in her house. I'm not racist - I am speaking from experience. Are you speaking from real-life experience?

Uncle

 

[jimmoyer]

Good post Uncle Percy.

You're no racist.

We gotta get on with THE WALL.

Then we can all be more civil.

And guide this whole thing.

We're doing nobody any favors for either society
if we don't control the border.

In addition, the crime is very real, in addition to
the more rosy view of the tough working Mexican
in other states away from the border.

And yet there's a sheriff in Ohio who is suing the federal
government for assistance in dealing with not only the crime,
but also for help in social services and schools and is why
the local government joined the Sheriff in the suit.


Good post Percy.

It needs to be said.

In fact, we are not the only Western nation dealing
with large immigration problems.

Look around.

Mexico has an army on its southern border having
problems with Central America and South America illegally
enterring.

And you all know the French and German story.

 

[quinton]

I'm just glad they're not coming to Canada.

We have enough environmental problems sustaining demands of the 33 million affluent people we already have.

 

[cortezzz]

Jim - I am closer to this problem than anyone. Half a million Mexicans protested in the streets of my city. They have taken over our state, the one our ancestors built -- mostly Europeans and blacks.

No one has addressed the tantamount problem - there are TOO MANY OF THEM. TOO MANY. They breed like rabbits. Being the good Catholics they are, they start putting make-up on their daughters at ages 8-9. I see them sitting in the malls, like merchandise. Mexicans have too many kids to take care of them properly. Few get through high school, much less college.

The girls are used to raise the young children and then married off at 14-15. Then they start the baby machine again. I'd go for a wall, but I'd also go for BIRTH CONTROL.

The other undiscussed problem that most people are afraid to address is this: We don't want them here. They are not wanted.
Do you get it? It's time to deport the illegals, and then put a cap on immigration from Mexico - no more Mexicans. Zip. Period. Full up - go home. <psst - I can see in their eyes that they know they are unwanted>

How about putting a block on money being sent to Mexico from the US? No American dollars flowing down to Mexico-way. That money should be respent in the US where it was made.

If nothing else, your wall idea would be symbolic. I like it.

Uncle

its an added plus that the mexicans irritate people like you
i dont think they give a taco what you think of them
the plan is to breed
while your type does anything but
more mexicans
haveing more wonderfull mexican babies
and eventually thru amnesties and naturalization
more votes
repeat for 50 years

when will the states have made it ===when both democratic and republican candidates for the presidency are of hispanic background
give it time -- be patient

in the long run what they think of you will be more important than what you think of them

no babies
no future

que viva mexico

 

[I think not]

Hey, buddy, I usually agree with you, but you are looking through a telescope - and only at economic issues. I am addressing the social dilemma that I see around me. Whites and blacks who need social aid are getting very angry, deep inside, when they see the Mexicans suckling at the national teat, leaving it dry for us, the elderly, the handicapped, the veterans, etc. We earned it. They did not.

Actually it's pretty funny, but you beat me to the punch. I was about to make a post in regards to states having jurisdiction on how to deal with illegal immigrants. Reason being, in my opinion, whether or not illegal immigrants are accepted depends heavily on where they are located. I say this because states generally have different attitudes towards immigration. It would require and act of Congress but I think it would be worth it.

There is a tremendous culture clash between Mexicans and Americans. Not so with Canadians and Americans. Aren't you even aware of it? The first barrier is the language. But there are many more - the patriarchal family system is stronger in Mexican families. Bull to all your hardworking crap - you aren't giving the whole picture.

I am aware there is a culture clash between Mexicans and regional areas of the US, where Mexicans have almost literally have taken over certain states. Those that border Mexico in particular, which is why I believe states should be granted certain powers to deal with immigrants.

Discuss the spiritual differences in our beliefs. Mexicans believe in ghosts - seriously. I'm not kidding.

Discuss the high school dropout rate of Mexicans vs. middle class American students - in the same area.

Discuss the crime rate, the average life expectancy, the medical care, the developmental stages of childhood, Mexican vs. American (I mean European), also 500 other things I could sit here all night and think of that have little to do with economics.

Come on - everything is not about the almighty dollar. Especially ghosts. I'm against the Mexicans. They destroyed my Mother's house. They screwed me on the rent. And they dealt drugs out of my Mother's bedroom. Now black women are living in her house. I'm not racist - I am speaking from experience. Are you speaking from real-life experience?

Uncle

When discussing economics I was referring to the overall continent and its future. It's about competition. Congress does not appear to be interested in taking strong action to control illegal immigration, and I too am somewhat ambivalent about the issue. I believe it would do great harm to the economy if the labor force were suddenly reduced by the 10 million or so illegal immigrants presently working in US. Ambivalence is a condition best cured by federalism. Let the states decide.

 

[jimmoyer]

Cortezzz if you're taught to deny such things because
they certainly don't sound right and yet if you saw
it yourself, you'd be under the tyranny of political
correctness.

Again, your cartoons.

There's a lot of Latinos on the border who feel
just like Percy. Check out some of the Latino ranchers
and all those hispanic names that own property
down there. There's a lot more complexity than
just another Cortezzz substituting his cartoons for
the perceived cartoons of Percy.

 

[cortezzz]

i am expressing my feelings on the issue
not those of others

i have taken note of what you say
but you missed it jim

the clue to my being clued in is
the 2 latino candidates one for the one for the left one ---for the right-- that was the vision i had

your incessant repetition of --- cartoon view
its more complex-- is tiresome
as of course one can only discuss a small aspect of the issue at a time

whoa---missed again jim

come on and mess with texas

 

[darkbeaver]

RE: What's up with Immigr

President Bush believes in ghosts and so do most of the christians who voted for him.

 

[jimmoyer]

Percy and ITN and Sanch and Finder are the only ones actually digging a little deeper on this one.

I'll agree with you Cortezzz, the Cartoon Network
is a little tiresome.

Try to switch to another channel.

You have the remote.

 

[unclepercy]

Re: RE: What's up with Immigration in the US?

I'm just glad they're not coming to Canada.

We have enough environmental problems sustaining demands of the 33 million affluent people we already have.

Excuse me, Quinton, but you may have missed my earlier post.
Canadians are paying the airfare of Mexicans to come to Quebec to pick cucumbers. Most never go home. So, you are inviting the problem into your own country. Be forewarned.

Uncle