What would YOU want to hear at church?
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Cliffy, next time you're down here, in Vancouver or the Valley, let's meet for coffee. I'd like that. I believe your language would be more respectful, and we could have a more meaningful discussion.
Assuming nothing big enough wipes out life on Earth or smacks it out of orbit in pieces, water will disappear in about 1.5 billion years.
http://debate.org.uk/topics/history/bib-qur/bibmanu.htm
http://codexsinaiticus.org/en/
lol You believe all kinds of stuff, don't you? Well, here's another one to believe, I have debated all sorts of things about Christianity and the Bible with Catholic and Anglican priests, a rabbi, and loads of JWs and rebirthed people and not once have I shown any disrespect for those people, just some disdain for their gods and the nonsense they speak. But then I don't have much respect for other nonsense that people believe in either, like fake moon landings and doomsdays, for instance.
Nonsense is nonsense, why respect it?
Like I keep saying, as far as I am concerned people can believe whatever they like. I don't disrespect people until they give me reason not to. But that doesn't mean I have to respect what they believe in. Perhaps you are unable to distinguish the difference, I don't know.
You are right about one thing. I have been edgy lately. I'm thinking it is the meds I'm on. Don't like being disrespectful.
If this is an example of how you spend your time here I can see why you would dread an eternity of them.
New Jerusalem is considerably larger than this Jerusalem, say 200x. That means the circumference of the earth would be increased by the same proportion, the 25,000 miles becomes 5,000,000 miles. That is the 'courtyard for the city', new earth would also cover all the are we call the 'universe' and the 'worlds' mentioned below are part of where 'new' Nations will come from.
Heb:1:2:
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son,
whom he hath appointed heir of all things,
by whom also he made the worlds;
In a city that is 1500 miles square it could hold 27,878,400 people every sq mi if every person was given 10 sq ft. The city is 2,250,000 sq mi so a total of 62,726,400,000,000 people, just for the city, multiply that by 200 x and you get the number there if the courtyard is also filled up.
I pretty much came to the conclusion life was a waste of time for a great many people including myself and that had nothing to do with oppression from other people, more like plans failed to work out more often than they did, even then much more effort was needed 'than planned for'. You pride yourself for heading for the bush for 40 years yet you mock somebody who comes from spending 40 years in the bush if hearing a radio for the first time was at 3yrs old is considered to be 'the bush'. The only difference I see is you get better at fixing things yourself, or at least it used to be that way. Takings today's gagets into the bush means when they quit working they are extinct, not a big deal as the real bush doesn't really teach anything useful for when you aren't in the bush. (if you can text you aren't, lol)
Say I get to live another 20 years before old age catches me and I have the same faith up to a few days before I croak and then I 'see the light' would I feel cheated, no, finding the truth was the quest. Was Neb cheated in Daniel when God put him through several years of experiencing a complete and utter mental breakdown close to the time he died of old age. Do you think he felt cheated that God didn't do that many decades earlier so that he was a loyal follower that much earlier? The story should tell us He gathers each of us 'before it is too late'. Being pissed that you don't get the 'plan you prefer' isn't going to alter anything.
Really you can know what's inside without opening it and reading? lol Shouldn't you be picking out winning lotto tickets?
I didn't say He was (although He is) the only one to choose from, nor do i claim the Bible is unique in it's stories and Laws. That it appears as gibberish to you just means it is currently beyond your understanding rather than you understanding being above the words, know what I mean?
No evidence was presented, why make it the focus of the whole reply?
The 10 Commandments got carried over, the 1st Law, love God includes the same 4 Laws you detest.
That is the term used when explaining a new concept to somebody, if that is the only word they can comment on it means it was a waste of time.
Seriously this was too much for you to find on your own?
Ex:7:13:
And he hardened Pharaoh's heart,
that he hearkened not unto them;
as the LORD had said.
Ex:7:14:
And the LORD said unto Moses,
Pharaoh's heart is hardened,
he refuseth to let the people go.
Ex:7:22:
And the magicians of Egypt did so with their enchantments:
and Pharaoh's heart was hardened,
neither did he hearken unto them;
as the LORD had said.
How long did Moses resist God compared to Pharaoh?
Like I said, if that is the one word you understood out of all of them then it was a waste of time other than for determining why posts to you should be a shallow as possible.
Okay, lol. Don't die, that will show God who's boss.
Better than on emotions and bank accounts.
That is something that is between you and God, just quit thinking the relationship you have now is the best one there can ever be.
Did they kill each other for sport or over envy?
Well, yes you are, again that is between you and God.
Mr. Hanegraaff is answering the question that some of you had, "What was the origin of evil?"
What was the origin of evil? - YouTube
What was the origin of evil? - YouTube
Twice he cited 1 Thessalonians 5:21, "test all things," (the KJV says "prove all things"), yet his entire explanation is predicated on some heroically huge and untested--and untestable--assumptions being true. I'm not going to take a sloppy thinker like that seriously.
Ah, more assumptions. It's ok, MHz, I understand that we can't all be rational.
Sounds like a great idea for a fantasy/scifi book. Where's all the water coming from? Like I said, the quantity of fresh water is dwindling now as the population rises. We will run out long before the sun goes red giant unless the equation changes.
wow That's quite the assumption. Only someone who thinks they know all there is to know or else thinks there is nothing nothing but trees, bugs, and noisy creatures would think that. But there are many things to learn about in the bush that are quite valuable in anyone's life.
And assuming things exist when there's absolutely no evidence for them and then finding out it all really was nothing but an empty balloon would make you feel what?
You seem to keep assuming that I've never read anything. Sorry, you're wrong.
You didn't have to.
Baseless assumption again. Now there's a surprise.
....or else I have read it, came to my own interpretations, and mock what's in it because it's of little or no value to me, or that how you wrote it displayed a poor enough command of the language that I found it difficult to understand, or .....
Well fine. If you wish to continue your version of this fantasy, go right ahead, but don't expect that no-one will analyze the BS and call you on it.
I detest them? Since when? You might try the word "disdain" instead.
But I don't really care where they came from because it's irrelevant. My point was that any ultimate and perfect being would simply not have needed them. Like I said, you seem to have your own brand of "logic".
You and adopted seem to use the word profusely. It implies hypotheses. Without evidence, hypotheses are useless. So yes, your "ifs" are useless.
lmao Using quotes from the same book to provide proof is ludicrous. It's like using quotes from the people of Whoville or Horton himself as proof that Horton actually heard a Who.
I doubt the people of Whoville (among others) care.
Not shallow, just flippant. I don't take Dr.Seuss's stories seriously either.
Who says? You? I don't think there's a god to care so it shouldn't make any difference whether I die or not, except to me and mine.
That's frequent. Goads people into financially supporting organisations based on fantasy; IOW, using their emotions to prey upon them. It's a bit different here. Here, we have people like adopted using bombastic remarks to steer them into believing this nonsense.
Wrong. That's something between me and me. The likelihood of gods and goblins is pretty much nil.
I wouldn't know. Ask one.
Assumption again. Like I said, anyone can assume anything they wish. You sure do it frequently enough.
lol I've been saying this for years: according to the Bible, this god created everything including potential for evil and choice. That means that this god is ultimately responsible for everything that follows. This god, being omniscient, should have seen this coming and should not be shocked, pissed off, etc. that it happened. Immensely illogical.
Like Dexter posted, "He knowingly creates us flawed, tells us it's our own fault and holds us responsible for the consequences, condemns us if we fail to correct ourselves, and arranges to have a man horribly murdered as a scapegoat for what's wrong with us."
IOW, if I build something and it doesn't work properly, it's not the thing I built at fault, it's me.
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Hi Spade,
Thank you for sharing. I find a general principal that when people violate God's commanded order, bad things happen, and I think you're providing another example of that here. Some of the quotes from those people revealed their distinctly un-biblical views. For example, racial equality, "which to them was abhorrent" is of course a basic principle of the Kingdom of Christ.
Again, this is a testimony for the goodness of Christ and a warning against deviating from Him.
In our "civilized" and educated society, we are all tolerant of abortion -- a situation in some ways comparable to the historical mistreatment of blacks because "they aren't really people." Does this at all concern you as well, or will you stay politically-correct? Perhaps 80 years from now, somebody will document the role so-and-so played in the rise and fall of abortion. Again, we'll see that this wasn't in line with Christ, whether some people calling themselves "Christians" were involved or not.
This was partly interesting to me, because (though I don't know my history well) my church, and corresponding sister church still in South Africa, formed out of opposition to the church mentioned in the document you shared.
Here's a thought - who says it wasn't Ra, or Osiris, or perhaps even Set that commanded Moses to take his people from Egypt? Considering Moses supposedly saw a burning Bush, most likely Ra - being a Sun God - commanded it. After all, Moses didn't know squat about the Hebrew God, but he knew the Egyptian Gods...
Maybe the Egyptian Gods didn't want the Hebrews as slaves anymore.
Y'know... just sayin'. Cause you weren't there, I wasn't there, no one was there and the "truth" could be far from it considering the whole journey was written by Hebews who of course would want to see their freedom given to them by their version of God.
Beside the fact that there is no historical record of the Jews ever having been slaves in Egypt, your theory holds a whole lot more water than the OT version. After supposedly having been raised by the Pharaoh as a son would have meant Moses would have been a high priest of the ancient Egyptian mystery schools. And as such would have been able to match the high priest's magic spell for spell accounting for the staff turning into a snake. Moot point though, since there is also no record of Moses having existed either. And if the Jews had been slaves in Egypt, they probably would have been illiterate so doubtful they had scribes. Most of the OT was written while in captivity in Babylon after many centuries of a strictly oral tradition of myths and legends many of which were borrowed from the Sumerians, Egyptians and Babylonians.
And which, being stories, are embellished over time, just like everything else in the OT.
Right. Christ is nowhere reported as speaking out against the institution of slavery, despite many opportunities to do so, and it's clear that the New Testament writers were not opposed to it either, it's a routine aspect of life at the time and just taken for granted. The Old Testament even includes details about how to treat slaves, some of them pretty cruel, like it's okay to beat them for certain transgressions, just not to death. What are we to make of that? Anybody who takes their ethics wholly from Christian scripture is going to be a pretty nasty person, and probably in jail.
A disciple is not above the teacher, nor a slave above the master (Matt. 10:24)
Who then is the faithful and wise slave, whom his master has put in charge of his household, to give the other slaves their allowance of food at the proper time? Blessed is that slave whom his master will find at work when he arrives. (Matt. 24:45-46)
Now how much credence do we give to the rest of "biblical tolerance"??
On slavery in the old testament and new testament: "Why did God permit slavery?" (from Piper)
Also, this from R.C. Sproul:
Slavery was an intimate part of the social order back then, and any perceived threat to the practice was seen as a threat to society. Throughout the New Testament we find the apostles willing to live at peace with this order for the sake of the gospel insofar as doing so did not compromise the gospel (for example, 1 Peter 2:18). For slaves this meant honoring their masters, as honor is owed to those God has placed in authority (Rom. 13:1–7; 1 Peter 2:13–14). Paul was not concerned with overturning slavery itself, and it should be noted that slavery in the ancient Roman Empire was closer to the modern-day employer-employee relationship, not the slavery of other eras based on kidnapping and racism, which Scripture abhors (Ex. 21:16; Gal. 3:28). In any case, to dishonor our supervisors today, as with a slave’s dishonoring of his master in the first century, falsely depicts Christianity, “as if God, whom we worship, incited us to rebellion, and as if the gospel rendered obstinate and disobedient those who ought to be subject to others” (John Calvin).Though the apostle did not argue against slavery, his teaching in 1 Timothy 6:2a was unheard of in his day. In ancient Rome, slaves obviously had a lower social status. Yet Paul says a slave’s work benefits his master, making him equal to him in the good he can do. Passages like this eventually led certain men in the West to fight for the abolition of slavery, and the gospel’s absence in other parts of the world may help explain why some nations still practice slavery today.
Maybe the most amazing thing about slavery is that the Bible teaches that it is a metaphor of the Christian's relationship to Christ -- that Christ is his master. And what freedom comes with being a slave of the most good and perfect master!
But Moses was there, and wrote it all down plainly for us, but you reject what he says. If somebody rose from the dead to explain this to you, you'd reject him as well, because you don't want to believe it.