What should Canada give up in new NAFTA

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
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That's one form of dumping. What we normally think of as 'dumping' usually refers to selling a subsidized product below market price. Yet if the Chinese government wants to take Chinese people's hard-earned money to subsidize the steel we Canadians consume, why would we complain about that. The country doing the dumping is actually the one that loses in the long run because it's selling at a loss.
Also, why do you care where the product is made? I'll just buy the best product for my purposes.
Because it is shit steel. Not even suitable for making paperweights. That's what set the Johnson st bridge back three years. Took three try's to get the made in China structural steel of the quality specified in the contract.
So I can see why the US users would be pissed off at getting what is supposed to be a quality product that turns out to be your average Made in China garbage.
 

spilledthebeer

Executive Branch Member
Jan 26, 2017
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Why are you ranting on twitter and what makes you think we care?


Oh dont worry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


All will be well after the 2019 election!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Either Our idiot Boy \Justin will be on the unemployment line or he will have a short lived MINORITY GOVT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


In either case- saner heads will be in the drivers seat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


That is the good news- that ALL LIE-beral policy is in DISGRACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The BAD NEWS is that even if we start strong in 2019- it will still take DECADES to UN-do the crap LIE-berals created!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Twin_Moose

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 17, 2017
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Opinion: What if Donald Trump has a point with Chrystia Freeland?

Well, well.
To absolutely no-one’s surprise, it turns out Donald Trump still doesn’t like Justin Trudeau. When asked about the Prime Minister yesterday at his performance art press conference, the U.S. President recounted how he had rejected a request from Trudeau to meet on the margins of the U.N. to talk NAFTA, a interpretation of events the PMO quickly dismissed as at odds with reality. For good measure, Trump also revived his threat to levy tariffs on the Canadian auto sector.
Why is Trump opting for war instead of some jaw-jaw with Trudeau?
Well, according to Trump, “[Trudeau’s] tariffs are too high, and he doesn’t seem to want to move, and I’ve told him ‘forget about it.'” The “it” in question being NAFTA and its narrowing window for resolution in 2018.
But it turns out Trump was only warming up. He also had some choice words for Chrystia Freeland, Canada’s definitely not chopped liver Foreign Minister, saying: “We’re very unhappy with the negotiations and the negotiation style of Canada—we don’t like their representative very much.”
Wait a minute, what? Is this the Chrystia Freeland who takes fashion suggestions from her children, invites G-7 foreign ministers to her house for waffles, and brings reporters popsicles while they were baking in the late summer Washington heat? Yep, one and the same.
But how could anyone not like such an accomplished politician, one who’s won many plaudits over the course of her professional and political life? Such, at least, was the response of much of the Canadian commentariat to Trump’s broadside, many of whom leapt to Freeland’s defense on Twitter.
Does Trump dislike Freeland because she’s a woman? Is it because of her outspokenness on Russia and Ukraine, and the fact that she’s under sanction by the Russian regime? Or is it that she’s just bloody good at her job and refusing to cede any ground in what is a tough negotiation?
It could be any or all of the above. But here’s a heretical thought: What if it’s none of the above? In other words, what if Trump has a point? What if Freeland hasn’t been helping Canada’s cause?
First, a clearing of the decks to ensure a fair hearing. I am not a fan of the current American president. I believe he is a stain on principled conservatism, an ignorant bully several stops short of the station he has achieved in life.
But that doesn’t make President Trump wrong on every point. Nor does pointing out Trump’s awfulness at every opportunity make it the correct course of action. Sometimes a little white lie, or a truth left unspoken, is the grease needed to get a result, especially when you need a positive outcome on a file as important as NAFTA.
So, how could Trump have gotten the wrong impression about Freeland? Let us count the ways. But first, a bit of backstory.
Things were relatively conflict-free on the NAFTA front—if not necessarily progressing well—until May of this year. Regular negotiation sessions were being held, and Trudeau’s government had its Senate, House and state ducks all in a row. Despite this work, negotiators still missed the window to get the deal redone under the president’s existing “fast-track” trade authority.
This miss was soon followed by the imposition of Trump’s spurious tariffs on Canada’s steel and aluminium, which then begat Canada’s pledge to impose retaliatory measures. Things were getting nasty.
The looming trade spat certainly soured the mood at the outset of Trudeau’s June G-7 in Charlevoix, before producing a full-on detonation from Trump after the Prime Minister had the temerity to repeat previously-made comments on Canada’s willingness to stand up for itself in the face of bullspit tariffs levied under the guise of “national security”.
When Trudeau was subsequently attacked in the press by Trump consiglieres Larry Kudlow and Pete Navarro, it was Freeland who leapt to Trudeau’s defence, saying: “Canada does not conduct its diplomacy through ad hominem attacks … and we refrain particularly from ad hominem attacks when it comes from a close ally.”
Four days later, however, Freeland put paid to that by popping up in Washington D.C.—Donald Trump’s backyard—to receive an award as “Diplomat of the Year”. And while there wasn’t any pure ad hominem on offer in Freeland’s acceptance speech, there was a fair share of pissing on Trump’s rug.
Some excerpts:

“And within the club of wealthy Western nations, we are seeing homegrown anti-democratic forces on the rise. Whether they are neo-Nazis, white supremacists, incels, nativists or radical anti-globalists, they seek to undermine our democracies from within.”
A reasonable person—to say nothing of an unreasonable one like Trump—could easily interpret this as a shot across Trump’s bow and a dig at his supporters. Indeed, most observers did, including many in the press. There is no way it was said without knowing who it would anger.
And it was only the beginning. Freeland pressed on:
“Authoritarian regimes are actively seeking to undermine us with sophisticated, well-financed propaganda and espionage programs,” Freeland said, later on adding: “it means resisting foreign efforts to hijack our democracies through cyber meddling and propaganda.”
Now anyone who follows Trump on the Twitter machine knows he gets a bit touchy when the subject of authoritarian regimes undermining Western democracies comes up, what with the conventional wisdom being that Russia helped to put him in the White House. And while Freeland’s words here are undoubtedly true in the general sense, they were also deliberately chosen, knowing full well the impact they’d have on the psyche of the occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
Was the Liberal government honestly expecting them to help grease the NAFTA wheel? Why not just egg on Robert Mueller while you’re at it?
But don’t some home truths simply need to be spoken? Isn’t democracy worth the risk? Besides, didn’t Stephen Harper once tell Vladimir Putin he needed to get the hell out of Ukraine?
Yes, Harper did. But Putin had invaded another country, not just angered his closest allies by imposing some whack tariffs. More to the point, Harper didn’t have critical skin in the game in the form of an essential economic trade agreement with Russia. Freeland and Trudeau do, which makes the next Freeland speech excerpt even more ill-advised:
“Angry populism thrives where the middle class is hollowed out, where people are losing ground and losing hope, even as those at the very top are doing better than ever. People feel their economic future is in jeopardy—when they believe their children have fewer opportunities than they themselves had in their youth, that is when people are vulnerable to the demagogue who scapegoats the outsider, the other, whether it is immigrants at home or trading partners abroad.”
It might all be true. But does any sentient being think the above section wasn’t written explicitly in reference to the United States and Trump? And even if it doesn’t, does anyone think Trump could be blamed for thinking it’s about him? He thinks everything is about him. We know this. Whatever the case, Freeland had to know her words would get back to Trump. And again, did she think they would help or hinder NAFTA?
Put differently, how do people think Robert Lighthizer coming to Ottawa and dumping all over Trudeau’s “progressive” trade agenda would be interpreted? No matter what your position is on the policy, there is such a thing as form. Politicians rarely go to each other’s backyards to set off flares. And if they do, they do it deliberately, knowing full well the impact those words will have.
Of course Freeland knew her speech in Washington would rankle, just as she knew her appearance on a panel titled “Taking on the Tyrant” a few weeks ago would grate. But she did it anyway.
And now here we are, with NAFTA in limbo and an angry U.S. President. And while Freeland might have strong domestic support and the support of the bien-pensants in her war of words with Trump, it’s Trump that has the future of NAFTA in his hands.
 

White_Unifier

Senate Member
Feb 21, 2017
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Because it is shit steel. Not even suitable for making paperweights. That's what set the Johnson st bridge back three years. Took three try's to get the made in China structural steel of the quality specified in the contract.
So I can see why the US users would be pissed off at getting what is supposed to be a quality product that turns out to be your average Made in China garbage.

So blame the buyer, not the government. The government can and should impose the same quality standards on imports as it does on domestic products.
 
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MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
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Red Deer AB
So blame the buyer, not the government. The government can and should impose the same quality standards on imports as it does on domestic products.
Rather than China not being able to make steel properly perhaps the contractors were ordering sub-standard steel and they got caught.
If it was China there should be lots of incidents world-wide, so far there doesn't seem to be.
 

Hoid

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 15, 2017
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So much for Trump's divide and conquer.

It only works on White nattys.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
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Regina, Saskatchewan
I've been looking to see how "HUGE" the trade
deficit is between the USA & Canada, & it's not
a 30 second Google answer. The two countries
in the same year can both claim they have trade
surplus's with the other. Take this for example (2016):


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada%E2%80%93United_States_trade_relations

The trade relationship of the United States with
Canada was the second largest in the world after
China and the United States. In 2016, the goods
and services trade between the two countries
totaled $627.8 billion. U.S. exports were $320.1
billion, while imports were $307.6 billion. The
United States had a $12.5 billion trade surplus
with Canada in 2016.

OK, so maybe the US had a surplus with Canada
in 2016, but as a percentage of the whole it's 2%.
2% maybe....

Canada has historically held a trade deficit with
the United States in every year since 1985 in net
trade of goods, excluding services. The trade
relationship between the two countries crosses
all industries and is vitally important to both
nations' success as each country is one of the
largest trade partners of the other.

Now from this site's claims of 2018 (which we
are still in it claims that Canada has a surplus
with the USA.

https://www.thebalance.com/trade-deficit-by-county-3306264

Canada, the United States, and Mexico are
partners in the world's largest trade agreement,
the North American Free Trade Agreement. The
trade deficit with Canada is $18 billion. That's
only 3 percent of the total Canadian trade of
$582 billion.

The United States exports $282 billion to Canada,
more than it does to any other country. It imports
$300 billion.

The trade deficit with Mexico is $71 billion. Exports
are $243 billion, mostly auto parts and petroleum
products. Imports amount to $314 billion, with cars,
trucks, and auto parts being the largest components.

Reading further, I've found claims by both countries
(Canada & the USA) in the SAME YEAR to have
trade surplus's which each other (I'm repeating this
for emphasis).It's sooo close that as a %'age of the
whole it's almost a wash.

2% one way or 3% the other.....and this justifies a 25%
tariff on Steel & a 10% tariff on Aluminum with Canada?

Trump threatening to punish the people of Canada with
ruination like some wannabe Tony Freak'n Soprano???
The Political Optics are ridiculous.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
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10,952
113
Regina, Saskatchewan



The trade across Ambassador Bridge, between
Windsor, Ontario and Detroit, Michigan, alone is
equal to all trade between the United States and
Japan.

I'm with a company that hauls imports from the USA
into Canada. Maybe 5% of the border crossings I set
up are at the above border crossing. Most are through
North Portal (SK) as the most direct line from the East
US to the Western Canadian Provinces, and maybe 10%
from the West US up into BC. We bring in ourselves
about 1000 RV's (Travel Trailers & 5th Wheel RV's)
every year....so maybe $20,000,000 worth of goods, &
we haul out 2-3 to the USA from Canada yearly (units
in such terrible shape that even factoring in shipping
costs it's potentially cheaper to repair them in the US
where the labour costs are much lower than Canada.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
28,982
10,952
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
Anyway, the Thread title is, "What Should
Canada Give Up In The New NAFTA?"
With trade so close that it's hard to even
measure who has a surplus or a deficit
between Canada and the USA, and this
being a Negotiation (vrs a Capitulation
like Mr.Trump seems to want), if Canada
is to give up anything, then what should
America give up in return in the nature of
balanced Negotiation?
 

pgs

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 29, 2008
28,501
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B.C.
Anyway, the Thread title is, "What Should
Canada Give Up In The New NAFTA?"
With trade so close that it's hard to even
measure who has a surplus or a deficit
between Canada and the USA, and this
being a Negotiation (vrs a Capitulation
like Mr.Trump seems to want), if Canada
is to give up anything, then what should
America give up in return in the nature of
balanced Negotiation?
Well I figure if you are trying to negotiate free trade with exceptions you really aren’t negotiating free trade .
 

spilledthebeer

Executive Branch Member
Jan 26, 2017
9,296
4
36
Yeah. Good reason to walk away from thw talks.


========================================================================================================


So MUCH LIE-beral blather!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





So very little truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Trump spoke of NATO SLACKERS before he was even elected!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


TRUMP NAMED Canada as a NATO slacker- one of the worst in the group!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Trump asked WHY Yankees should do ALL the heavy lifting for NATO security while Yankee allies contributed TOKEN efforts- and IT IS A VALID QUESTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Canada was invited MULTIPLE TIMES to join Yankees in developing the missile defense shield and SCORNED every invite- and now Our idiot Boy does not understand why Yankees expect us to defend ourselves - just like a REAL COUNTRY WOULD!!!!!!!!!!



And when North Korea threatened to shoot missiles at Yankee- that would travel OVER Cdn territory- Our idiot Boy was appalled to find that Trump sees NO REASON to defend Cdns!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The first federal LIE-beral budget produced AFTER TRUMP was elected- cut Cdn defense spending by fifty percent!!!!!!!!!!!


Our defense spending went from HALF of what we had promised- down to ONE QUARTER of what we had promised!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And Our idiot Boy wonders why we are seen as slackers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Trump told the world he wanted to END Muslim immigration to United States!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Our idiot Boy Justin BORROWED BILLIONS OF DOLLARS to fly 50,00 Muslims out of refugee camps run by terror group Hamas and bring them to Canada- WITHOUT ANY REAL SECURITY CHECKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Our idiot Boy sees NO CONNECTION between recent Muslim terror attacks in Canada and his immgiration policy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Trump has acted to dispose of tens of thousands of illegals living in United States- because the best of the steal Yankee jobs and the worst of them are involved in criminal activity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Our idiot Boy has welcomed those tens of thousands of illegals here without ANY security checks and with NO PLAN for how to feed, house, clothe or EMPLOY these people in any practical way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



In addition Our idiot Boy has welcomed tens of thousands of other illegals from as far away as Nigeria!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Has Our idiot Boy EVER HEARD of a "Nigerian Letter Scam"??????????????????????????


Yankees and Cdns are deeply concerned about crime rates and we all have SERIOUS CONCERNS about the LIE-beral commitment to fighting crime!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


For years LIE-berals told us crime rates were falling and that we did not need more cops!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


That LIE-beral LIE has bee exposed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Crime rates are "falling" simply because LIE-berals have stopped prosecuting them!!!!!!!!!!!!!


LIE-beral plea bargaining makes major crimes into minor crimes and makes minor crimes DISAPPEAR ENTIRELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


LIE-beral legal system is so sloppy that in summer 2017- LIE-beral hug a thug judges RELEASED SEVEN ACCUSED KILLERS with out the bother of a trial- because it would have taken too long and cot too much!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Yankees and Cdns are deeply disturbed by the LIE-beral $10.5 million dollar award to Muslim bomb maker Omar Khadr and we are disgusted by the LIE-=beral award of over $40 million dollars to 4 other Muslims who were detained during the round up of Muslim suspects after the 9/11 terror attack!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Our idiot Boy Justin says he wants Indigenous rights included in a NAFTA deal- and he is on record as wanting to deliberately SLANT our legal system in favour of drunken thieves like Coulton Boushie!!!!!!!!!!!



Both Cdns and Yankees wonder what other political and legal madness that LIE-berals are hiding behind a grossly self serving "privacy shroud" that LIE-berals routinely throw over any issue they think we might find offensive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


LIE-berals hide all manner of idiot choices behind privacy screens and then get indignant when cynical voters assume they are LIARS!


AS a nation- we are ENTITLED to be as careless and sloppy with our legal system but we ARE NOT ENTITLED to force idiot LIE-beral policy on our neighbours!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


We will continue to have legal, criminal, trade and national security issues until such time as Our idiot Boy and his loser LIE-berals hit the unemployment line!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!