What is wrong with a two tier health system?
- Thread starter AMKiller
- Start date
You're right on the ball this morning, Walter.
Your credibility is borderline.
This is ridiculous and alarm bells should be going off. Canadians have become complacent when it comes to our healthcare system.
'It's insane': Ont. patient told she'd have to wait 4.5 years to see neurologist | CTV News
'It's insane': Ont. patient told she'd have to wait 4.5 years to see neurologist | CTV News
Yep and no! It's very sad when something like that occurs when the condition is no fault of the patient. It's my contention if people quit smoking and drinking to excess, reduced the junk food consumed and exercised daily, there'd be lots of resources for the condition you've quoted. About 10 years ago or so, my family doctor told me if every healthy person walked for 45 minutes a day, the healthcare costs would eventually be reduced to half.
"Immigrants cost $23B a year: Fraser Institute report"
How does an immigrant with a college education cost me as much as raising a Canadian baby up to college level ?
I can bring in an immigrant and have him working right away and tax him to death - whereas it would cost various levels of giovernments hundreds of thousands to raise a single child.
I can bring in foreign students and get them to pay 5 times more than a Canadian for the same education.
Canadian born students are loss leaders.
How does an immigrant with a college education cost me as much as raising a Canadian baby up to college level ?
I can bring in an immigrant and have him working right away and tax him to death - whereas it would cost various levels of giovernments hundreds of thousands to raise a single child.
I can bring in foreign students and get them to pay 5 times more than a Canadian for the same education.
Canadian born students are loss leaders.
That explains why we have become a DNA graveyard
Free market consepts like taking care of yourself are not appreciated nor appropriate in this country please be silent or we will have you silenced
Anyone who is man enough isn't too concerned about it!
'NUK' will probably sign you up!
Our immigration system can't. All-too many of our immigrants make very little money, and given our progressive income tax exempts the bottom 30% from all income tax, and the next 20% from almost all income tax, anyone who doesn't have a pretty good job is a non-contributer. And the new figure is $35 billion a year, btw. So that college education will probably lead you to becoming a lifelong taxpayer. But someone with a low paid job will only be a lifelong consumer of government services like health care, never contributing anything to the pot.
the figure is whatever they want the figure to be.
An immigrant costs me a lot less than a native born Canadian. But the Fraser Institute won't tell you that. As A Canadian tax payer I would like to see more immigrants and fewer french/english teat sucking babies
Immigrants from third world countries are a big cost to Canadians, only those immigrants from western countries are costing the same as Canadians.
Immigrants from third world countries also lower the productivity rate of Canada
All that matters little because no one can afford to have children and 10 million boomers are nearing the last stretch.
Nah, not in his case.......................... Now if you were to say I discriminate against stupidity you might be on to something!
MORE MONEY FOR THE CURRENT SYSTEM????? HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!
Its easy to save money on health care- JUST DENY IT to people who have been taxed into the ground and can no longer access public care due to extreme Hog greed!
LIE-berals and Hogs have already sucked up ALL the money and now they want to economize by letting ordinary Cdns DIE AT HOME from treatable conditions that could be cured if only HOGS would let them into a hospital!
Here is an article explaining why health care is unaffordable due to LIE-beral vote buying and Hog greed:
Cdn Liberals and their supporters will continue to be referred to as LIE-berals until such time as they give up TRYING to Re-Write history to suit themselves. Their latest agit-prop bullshit involves telling us it was Mike Harris who ruined Ontari-owe health care-SUCH A LIE-beral thing to say!
Firstly it was NDP premier Bob (BooB) Rae and his mad scheme to make us all rich by borrowing money-just as our current prime minister-the Brainless Boy is doing! Rae ended up forcing civil service union Hogs to take unpaid days off in order to keep us from sliding totally into bankruptcy-and he laid off a pile of medical staff-whole floors of hospitals empty of patients, of nurses, of doctors, of beds-NOTHING but dusty rooms waiting for a change of govt while Ontari-owe debt DOUBLED!
And then Harris took over and became so popular that LIE-beral prime minister Jean Chretien PUNISHED Ontari-owe by GUTTING federal transfer payments. Just imagine the RAGE of LIE-berals that a Conservative premier was proving to be the most popular in Ontari-owe history! So federal payments dropped from fifty seven percent of health care costs to SEVENTEEN PERCENT-a massive gutting of health care funds-due in part to LIE-beral jealousy and in part to federal LIE-berals having hit their own debt wall! And its so much easier to make somebody else control their spending than it is to control your own so LIE-beral Chretien SHIT On Ontari-owe for LIE-beral fun and profit! And LIE-berals want to blame Harris for their actions-and this is why we call them LIE-berals!
And we have some numbers here related to Ontari-owe LIE-beral spending on health care and it’s a damning report on LIE-beral priorities! Sun reporter Christina Blizzard tells us “Wynne's government is bad for your health”! I have reproduced her column here and added some remarks of my own in brackets). Blizzard says:
First posted: Saturday, October 31, 2015 07:28 PM EDT | Updated: Saturday, October 31, 2015 10:06 PM EDT
The millions of dollars in “negotiating fees” the Liberal government paid to the teacher unions highlights the cosy relationship between the two.
Ever since they came to power in 2003, the Liberals have had such a symbiotic relationship with the teacher unions that it has at times appeared unhealthy. Number-crunch a little closer and you’ll find the relationship is actually bad for your health.
As you read these numbers, keep in mind how much money the government sloshed over to the unions to “negotiate,” and how much the teacher unions have ploughed into Liberal election coffers — through direct donations to campaigns and via the so-called Working Families, a coalition that comes together at election time to fund costly ads targeting the leader of the Progressive Conservative Party.
Look at the numbers and it becomes clear the Liberal government is putting the health and lives of Ontarians at stake in order to feed the voracious appetite of the teacher unions.
Why do teacher unions have such political clout? Well, they have the right to strike and they’re willing to exercise it. The Elementary Teachers’ Federation of Ontario (ETFO) especially holds a very large hammer over the heads of parents: If elementary teachers hit the bricks, parents have to stay home from work or find babysitting.
Here’s the scam: Education funding is soaring, but student enrolment is declining. Meanwhile, an aging population is putting pressure on our health-care system.
(I point out that numbers of school age kids are shrinking while numbers of health care seekers are rising! And people are living longer and their health needs are becoming more complex and time consuming to deal with a typical patient requires more time and attention than in the past-and LIE-berals are not taking that into account either!)
Unlike teachers, Doctors and nurses are loathe to take strike action. Most of them will tell you they feel a moral obligation to do their best for their patients.
(Yeah its so much easier to have sympathy for some old folk bleeding on a bed than it is to have sympathy for the snot nosed little kids in your class! And LIE-berals shamelessly exploit this!)
Since their election in 2003, the Liberals have increased the education budget by 240%.
At the same time, they increased the health and long-term care budget by approximately 170%.
(So the service that is used steadily LESS gets the lions share of money while the service that is under huge pressure gets crumbs! And how bad is it in an old folks home? In his first election campaign LIE-beral McGinty stood in front of a bunch of old folks and told them he would make sure they got at least one proper bath per week....instead of whatever slaps with a damp sponge they were currently getting! No wonder things like Shingles are spreading so rapidly among old folks! In my own case I needed an emergency ultra sound and the nearest clinic was outside an old folks home-I got examined and 40 minutes later I was in doctors office with results and both of us were looking at the oozing itchy red rash that was springing up on my leg from the dirty ultra sound table-left there by some sick old person badly in need of that bath that McGinty promised but never delivered on!)
In other words, the education budget has increased by 1.4 times more than the health and long-term care budget.
From 2003-04 to 2012-13, student enrolment declined almost 5%. It’s also worth recalling that Ontario discontinued Grade 13 in 2002/2003. So enrolment should have dropped significantly at that point, but they later brought in full-day kindergarten. Teacher salaries have increased 30% over that period.
Meanwhile, Ontario also graduates more than 4,000 more teachers a year than there are teaching positions available — notwithstanding Dalton’s McGuinty’s efforts to create more teaching jobs by introducing full-day babysitting.
The number of teachers is still rising while the number of nurses and doctors is going down.
Wynne’s government will eliminate 50 medical residency positions over two years, yet 800,000 Ontarians don’t have a family doctor and we’re tied for last in the country when it comes to the number of doctors per capita.
Next time a teacher union tells you the provincial government isn’t adequately funding schools, you have the numbers to prove them wrong.
The province’s accumulated debt, meanwhile, has doubled to around $300 billion. Taxes have soared.
And you wonder why the province is selling off Hydro One? The money won’t go to infrastructure.
It’s a quick-fix life-preserver to save us from drowning in red ink.
Actually immigrants are not a big health care cost- since the ideal ones are young and healthy and ready to go to work!
Rather, it is the class of newcomers allowed in by LIE-berals under the "Family Reunification" program which basically lets in any goof who can prove/or FAKE a connection to somebody else who is already here! The Family Reunification class are all those people who lack education, lack language skills, and often even lack basic levels of sanity- although LIE-berals are backing away from that a little due to the number of crazy people being shot on the streets by cops who are being DENIED useful resources by LIE-berals- who all hate cops!
IN short- LIE-berals are stacking the decks with people who simply cannot function in our modern society and who will need to be treated as dependent children for much of their lives- requiring all manner of COSTLY govt aid from health care to affordable housing!
LIE-berals have un-done an array of Conservative immigration rules- to our very great cost! Here is a response I got some time back-and some comments of my own:
Dictator Harper's Citizenship Act 'anti-Canadian'- new court challenge
Legal advocacy groups launch constitutional challenge Thursday, arguing Bill C-24 creates discriminatory 'two-tier citizenship regime.'
Two legal advocacy groups are launching a constitutional challenge to the Conservative government's new Citizenship Act in federal court, calling it "anti-immigrant, anti-Canadian, anti-democratic, and unconstitutional."
Both the B.C. Civil Liberties Association and the Canadian Association of Refugee Lawyers are filing a judicial review application and a statement of claim Thursday arguing that Bill C-24, the Strengthening Canadian Citizenship Act, creates a "two-tier citizenship regime" that discriminates between dual nationals -- born here or abroad -- and naturalized citizens.
The legal challenge focuses on some key provisions in the act which add an intent to reside in Canada provision before being granted Canadian citizenship, expand the grounds upon which a person can have his or her citizenship revoked and amend the procedures that lead to that revocation.
"This citizenship-stripping law is unjust, legally unsound and violates the core values of equality enshrined in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms," says Toronto lawyer Lorne Waldman, one of the litigators handling the case and a member of the executive of the Canadian Association of Refugee Lawyers.
"With this law the federal government shows a flagrant disregard for these values, and for the basic rights of all Canadians. We are asking the court to strike the law down."
•The suit claims the law violates Section 15 of the Charter, which guarantees equality rights, by discriminating against some Canadians and giving them limited rights because they, their parents or their ancestors were born elsewhere.
•The suit claims the law violates due process rights, guaranteed under Section 7 of the Charter, because the act leaves citizenship revocation decisions in the hands of Ottawa officials rather than a court of law.
•The suit alleges that Sections 6 of the Charter is also violated leaving citizens without the right to enter and leave Canada freely because of the intent to reside clause; Section 11 is also breached because under the act citizens can be punished twice for a crime; and Section 12 is violated because the bill subjects people to cruel and unusual punishment.
Nah, not in his case.......................... Now if you were to say I discriminate against stupidity you might be on to something!
Ya well you’re evil for believing in free market ideology
Think of all the stupid people that are going to suffer from their own stupidity. You hartless bastard. Nature is the only thing that should be that cruel
We the communist ideologues will tale care of all the stupid people. We are morally superior
So any study which disagrees with Hoid is Void? Uh huhhh.
And there we see the typical progressive hatred and loathing directed at their own countrymen. It really makes me wonder why you people don't just leave. Surely you'd be more happy and content in Egypt or Moscow?
Given most of the bills of this country are paid by a small percentage of its residents, that goes without saying.
Anyone with more than half a brain, however, would suggest that if we're going to bring more people here we should be bringing in tax contributors not more bodies that need to be carried by those tax contributors.
Well multiple tier health care looks good on the surface...
What? You think civil service Hogs grabbing up all the money AND all the health care looks anything other than poisonous?
Here is an article illustrating the LIE-beral threat to your health. With some comments of my own in brackets):
Doctors quit 'toxic' OMA, tired of being Liberal tools. Dr. Kulvinder Gill and Dr. Mark D'Souza, Special to the Toronto Sun. First posted: Tuesday, July 04, 2017 07:21 AM EDT | Updated: Tuesday, July 04, 2017 07:30 AM EDT
Related Stories:
Pediatrician shakes up Ontario's health care scene
Controversy dogs OMA vote
Meaningful change needed at OMA
It's good that doctors are speaking out: OMA president
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. A few years ago, we both became involved in medical politics to advocate for quality care for our patients in the face of growing healthcare cuts.
(LIE-beral style health care is a threat to your health- they CUT 7.5 percent out of health budget- so they could give MORE to teachers- in spite of student enrollment going down and number of health care users INCREASING! Then LIE-berals got into a dog fight with doctors because doctors rejected a contract offer that would have seen them WAIT FIVE YEARS before getting back to the deal they had before the 7.5 percent LIE-beral cut! And LIE-berals think doctors are pig headed and unreasonable! If grossly spoiled- but always loyal to LIE-berals- teachers had been offered such a deal the screams would have been deafening!)
It dawned on many physicians that poor representation by the Ontario Medical Association (OMA) enabled the provincial government’s systematic dismantling of our healthcare system.
In March of this year, we were both elected as chairs of the two largest OMA districts, representing nearly 20,000 physicians in District 5 (GTA, Dufferin, Muskoka, Simcoe) and District 11 (Toronto).
We had hoped to make the OMA into a member-driven organization that was transparent and accountable to frontline physicians. Instead, the OMA’s increasingly toxic environment has driven us to submit our resignations today.
The OMA is a 137-year-old bureaucracy with an administrative staff of over 300.
It is accountable to no one and is a tool for the Ontario Liberal government, which ensures the organization’s survival through mandatory, legislated membership dues of nearly $70 million annually.
(LIE-beral thoughts on managing unions are highly TOXIC! For instance, federal LIE-berals have issued legal changes that will DO AWAY with secret ballots for union certification! No more privately held opinions- you must expose yourself to potential retaliation for the good of unions- if you disagree with the majority! So much for democracy in union halls or in Canada generally- thanks to LIE-berals!)
In recent months, the OMA was essentially passive in its resistance to three government bills that adversely impact patient care – 41, 84, and 87 – while we have been vocal advocates, trying to be the voice of our members who truly feel oppressed.
Bill 41 has led to the loss of patient privacy, wasteful expansion of healthcare bureaucracy at the expense of frontline care, and provincial medical standards being determined by government bureaucrats, instead of medical experts. Bill 84 has led to the loss of physicians’ conscience rights and Bill 87 to the loss of physicians’ rights to privacy, presumption of innocence, natural justice and due process, through regulatory college changes.
(AS but one example of bureaucrats deciding on medical treatment INSTEAD of doctors- one has only to read of the treatment denied to an Ontari-owe man after portions of his legs were amputated due to Diabetes. The guy was expecting to have enough of his legs saved that he would be able to go back to work and thus to be able to continue his life-paying his bills and being independent! The choice- by bureaucrats- removal of treatment IN SPITE of doctors orders- would have thrown him into a relapse and would have eventually mandated MORE amputation- and more costs- so that he would then be unable to work as a mechanic again and would then require him to access Ontari-owe disability pension- for the rest of his life- in order to survive!)
There is enormous pressure within the OMA to toe the party line. Those who speak out, particularly when citing their elected titles, are targeted by OMA leadership and staff who maintain a “don’t rock the boat” mentality.
Until this year, individual OMA chairs controlled communications to their respective districts, yet our messages that often expressed opinions counter to OMA central were blocked.
(LIE-berals are managing the message- they do NOT want us to hear about people suffering from anti-biotic diseases picked up in poorly cleaned hospitals; do not want us to know how many people languish in hallways due to lack of bed; do not want us to know how often there are adverse drug reactions; do not want us to know how many people are sent home to quickly due to bureaucrats managing patient `flow` and bed access- people who relapse and must return to hospital for more extended recuperation and lost time and greater cost! Just because it is OUR tax money- does not give us any right to tell greedy LIE-berals how to spend it!)
Meanwhile a message from a loyal OMA official bypassed our authority and was distributed to our constituents with full use of their elected title. The OMA has since encouraged a formal communications policy that would apply only to us.
(LIE-berals speak often of free speech and democracy- but their basic assumptions and total arrogance are such that they assume you will either love them or like them- with no room for total rejection of their position on a subject! LIE-berals are so arrogant that an outright rejection of their position is simply “impossible”!)
Despite our elected legitimacy, we would essentially be muzzled. The OMA continues to make up rules as it goes along.
(Rather like how LIE-berals make up fiscal guidelines that are more about hiding their messes than about responsible accounting practice! Such as the hiding of four billion dollars in new Hydro debt by devious accounting methods! Such as selling off a part of our Hydro system to LIE-beral pals and then closing the books because LIE-berals THINK we are not entitled to know what they do with OUR money!)
Our efforts for organizational reform and independent thinking have been met with attempts at bullying and intimidation against us and other physicians from OMA leadership and staff.
A board member, and others within the OMA, submitted formal complaints against more than 40 doctors to the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario, the regulatory body of doctors, for investigation.
These complaints may take years to process, and threaten the ability of dissenting doctors to practice medicine. Why pretend to be for freedom of speech while simultaneously fostering an atmosphere of intimidation and fear?
(LIE-berals do play hardball when it comes to ANY dissenting voice! They are apparently so afraid of public opinion that they are preparing to DAMAGE our democracy and compromise our free speech by using their Islamophobia bigotry as a club to silence ALL critics of LIE-beral policy related to national security, their mad spending messes and insane immigration issues! Human Rights Kanagraoo courts may soon be used to silence people hostile to LIE-beral foolishness- just as OMA manipulates and silences dissenting voices among doctors!)
Despite our hope for organizational renewal, we believe institutional inertia has prevented meaningful change within the OMA. The OMA is like a chameleon, changing its colours. Double standards are applied liberally.
Even some new members of the OMA board and executive are either part of the perpetuation of bullying tactics, or have turned a blind eye to them.
The OMA continues to exist to serve itself first.
(There is NOTHING NEW in this- ALL LIE-beral political boards exist first and foremost to extend LIE-beral influence- regardless of its purpose or value!
We feel we can no longer meaningfully advocate for physicians and patients within an organization so committed to suppressing dissent.
Hence our resignations.
(LIE-berals recognize and reward their LOYAL friends! Its why LIE-berals have increased the education budget 50 percent more rapidly than the health care budget- in spite of the fact that school enrollments are dropping while the number of patients seeking health care expands rapidly as our population ages!)
Daring to voice different opinions from the OMA makes you a square peg in a round hole. Until that changes, the OMA will be unable to win the respect and unity of Ontario’s physicians.
We will continue to advocate for our colleagues and patients through our grassroots efforts.
We implore the OMA to take a hard look in the mirror, and call for a fully independent, forensic review of the organization.
- Gill is the former chair of District 5 of the OMA. D'Souza is the former chair of District 11
(OH good luck with that! A full forensic review of OMA or the health care budget will ONLY OCCUR AFTER LIE-berals are removed from office!)