Was Judas Jesus’ hero and most trusted disciple?

[petros]

God is logic that is why it is so hard do use logic to define God.

I've used every facet of logic to describe self-assembly and keep scratching my noggin in disbelief.

Trying to define the Divine is like trying to define a hole without describing it's surroundings.

No mater how hard you try, you'll always come full circle when trying to define consciousness.

 

[Cliffy]

It's everywhere! It's everywhere! There is nothing that isn't god. The Universe and everything in it is god. We are made up of god stuff, star dust.

CROSBY, STILLS, NASH Woodstock 1971 - YouTube

 

[petros]

You should volunteer at the Legion because that is a bingo.

Welcome back to the UNIVERSAL CHURCH!

You'll never escape your Jesuit Fransican roots.

 

[Cliffy]

You should volunteer at the Legion because that is a bingo.

Welcome back to the UNIVERSAL CHURCH!

You'll never escape your Jesuit Fransican roots.

Didga check out the nun in the video flashing the peace sign at Woodstock?

 

[petros]

Did you check out the Weyerhauser plywood they used to build the stage?

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Yes you have. You've raged quite verbosely about your relationship experiences and blame God that she was a bitch.
If you didn't have a soul, it wouldn't hurt.

I have not, and if that's what you think I was saying you haven't understood anything I've said about it. I've raged against the people who lied to me, who told me there is a god who cares, all this is part of the plan in this best of all possible worlds and everything will work out for the best. There isn't, it isn't, and it doesn't, that's delusional bull****, all of it. It hurts because it's a lie.

 

[petros]

B u l l s h i t !

And you still blame a God you say doesn't exist?

What plan?

God had a plan to turn your woman into a bitch?

How can something that doesn't exist have a plan?

It wouldn't hurt if it was b u l l s h i t.

You've painted yourself into a corner now.

 

[Blackleaf]

Judas was Jesus's brother.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

B u l l s h i t !

And you still blame a God you say doesn't exist?

What plan?

God had a plan to turn your woman into a bitch?

How can something that doesn't exist have a plan?

It wouldn't hurt if it was b u l l s h i t.

You've painted yourself into a corner now.

Try not to be any dumber than you can avoid. I blame the belief in god, not god, and that "turn your woman into a bitch" suggests you're confusing me with someone else, I have no memory of posting anything about that.

 

[French Patriot]

Jesus was just a rabbi who taught a new covenant with god. He wasn't deified until 300 years later. Christ is a title for an enlightened being, not a god. The Christ story is based on history but has been altered so much that it quakifies as a myth.

Altered for sure.

Caesar's Messiah Promo - YouTube

Regards
DL

He's almost certainly not a myth, the scholarly work I've seen makes a pretty compelling case that he was real, in the sense that there was a charismatic preacher in 1st century Palestine who said and did some of the things reported about him, but a lot of mythology has grown up around him since. Virgin births and miracles and resurrections are pretty common motifs in ancient religions, so if you're in competition with them your boy needs to have some of the same tales told about him.

Many are not familiar with that growth.

Controversial retired bishop John Spong on religion. full sh - YouTube

Regards
DL

 

[Cliffy]

The Jesus Myth - Timothy Freke - YouTube!

 

[French Patriot]

Judas was Jesus's brother.

Some read the twin material that way yes.

Usually those with more of an esoteric ecumenist leaning. Not the usual Christian.

Regards
DL

 

[Spade]

The argument about Judas as hinted at in the original post is not new. If Jesus's mission was not as a teacher but as a sacrificial lamb/scapegoat offered up for man's redemption, in a vein similar to animal sacrifices described in the Old Testament and extant among many early peoples in an attempt to propitiate their god(s), then Judas's role was central to man's redemption. He was a tool of the Divine to effect the mission and hence blameless.

 

[Nuggler]

Remarkable how the brainwashing stays with one.

BUT, the kindness I was shown at a very early age, and continuing, by leaders and members of the chuch also stays.

Not a bad path to follow, and the golden rule is not a bad rule to live by.

 

[Spade]

Cultural indoctrination...
Yes, the golden rule is the human way. Be good, Nuggler.
Think I'll shovel. Snow's here seven months now. The gods must be angry. Think I'll sacrifice two fowl ova - easy over. That should do it!

 

[French Patriot]

The argument about Judas as hinted at in the original post is not new. If Jesus's mission was not as a teacher but as a sacrificial lamb/scapegoat offered up for man's redemption, in a vein similar to animal sacrifices described in the Old Testament and extant among many early peoples in an attempt to propitiate their god(s), then Judas's role was central to man's redemption. He was a tool of the Divine to effect the mission and hence blameless.

I agree.

I see Jesus as more of the teacher - Rabbi and as that, as long as he is not tied through the Trinity to his genocidal son murdering father, I have no great problem with even as I see much of what he taught as unworkable rhetoric and much as anti-love which is counter to what a Rabbi should be teaching.

Jesus Christ: Madman or Something Worse? - YouTube

The main anti-love policies I see him advocating are his divorce on and his forgiveness one.
I prefer the Jewish way of handling forgiveness and although Moses' divorce law that supplanted God's is poor by our standards, it was still better than Jesus' or God's.

Regards
DL

Remarkable how the brainwashing stays with one.

BUT, the kindness I was shown at a very early age, and continuing, by leaders and members of the chuch also stays.

Not a bad path to follow, and the golden rule is not a bad rule to live by.

If you can, yes. But you cannot in an evolving world. You cannot help but do evil to others if you want to survive.

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in thefall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.

That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices thatcaused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free willis only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would wantto choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanationfor why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to beingeasily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbiddenfruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. HenceGod is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall,and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all sin by nature then, the sin nature is dominant. If not, we wouldhave at least some who would not sin.

Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am aGnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that evil is all human generated.Evil is our responsibility.

Much has been written to explainwhat I see as a natural part of evolution.

Consider.

First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. Theseare unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent todo evil even as victims are created.

Evil then is only human to human.

As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete orcooperate.

Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created.Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are eithercooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil at all times.

Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.

This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.

Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, we should all see thatwhat Christians see as something to blame, evil, we should see that what wehave, competition, deserves a huge thanks for being available to us.

There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is howthings are and should be. We all must do what some will think is evil as wecompete and create losers to this competition.

Theistic evolutionists have known this for some time.

Check the language in this hymn that says happy fault and necessary sin as it speaks of A & E.

O Necessary Sin of Adam (Does Christian Theology Need Adam & Eve?) - YouTube

Regards
DL

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Judas was just doing his job.

 

[Nuggler]

Judas was just doing his job.

Traitorous **** that he was..............BUT: thirty or whatever pieces of silver wasn't chump change back then.

I know of guys who'll do ya for a lot less.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Traitorous **** that he was..............BUT: thirty or whatever pieces of silver wasn't chump change back then.

I know of guys who'll do ya for a lot less.

I would.

 

[Nuggler]

I would.

Ow...........8O