W Five Nails Mulroney

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
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RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
I marched in the streets 2.5 decades ago to keep Mullpricky out of the trough (pig feeding device) and was called down to the lowest for not feeling the pride of community at electing a thief and a liar. It was too late then to save this country and it's later still, all that's left is the war at the end of capitalism.
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
6,770
137
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Hey CK, there are a number of things I don't like about Harper, but comparing him to Mugabe is WAYYYYYY over the top......and when compared to the opposition.....well, he da man.

Isn't that a little like comparing Hitler with Stalin? I mean who ever you choose it's not going to be the cream of the crop.
 

Cobalt_Kid

Council Member
Feb 3, 2007
1,760
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Hey CK, there are a number of things I don't like about Harper, but comparing him to Mugabe is WAYYYYYY over the top......and when compared to the opposition.....well, he da man.

I didn't compare Harper to Mugabe, that's where your mind automatically went...interesting.

What I'm saying is the trend in Canada and most other "democracies" is towards less and less accountability making the kind of excesses going on in Zimbabwe inevitable in a world with dwindling natural resources, large populations, an ultra-wealthy elite set on protecting their way of life and a rapidly changing global climate.

You say you were originally Reform, what the hell happened to changing the way Ottawa works to make it more accountable. From what I see of the governement in power now they have even less respect for the voters than any previous government. All they seem interesested in is boosting numbers high enough to get their majority government at which point we'll discover their true agenda after it's too late to stop it.

Harper man be your man, but he's not an answer to the real issues we're facing in the world today. I bet he's been bought and paid for by the oil lobby and despite what you claim that's probably where a lot of the conservative warchest comes from. Dion is being attacked indirectly by Big Oil through Harper. Elections Canada is investigating campaign donations to the conservatives in the last election right now.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
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Saint John, N.B.
I didn't compare Harper to Mugabe, that's where your mind automatically went...interesting.

I not quite sure what you mean............

What I'm saying is the trend in Canada and most other "democracies" is towards less and less accountability making the kind of excesses going on in Zimbabwe inevitable in a world with dwindling natural resources, large populations, an ultra-wealthy elite set on protecting their way of life and a rapidly changing global climate.

Well, I agree with the first phrase anyway, and I'm not so sure you are wrong about the second part..............however, I'm not sure ANY democratically elected gov't will deal in hard choices, or truely serve if it threatens their hold on power in the next election.......

You say you were originally Reform, what the hell happened to changing the way Ottawa works to make it more accountable. From what I see of the governement in power now they have even less respect for the voters than any previous government. All they seem interesested in is boosting numbers high enough to get their majority government at which point we'll discover their true agenda after it's too late to stop it.

Yeah, well, you'll also note my repeated carping about Harper driving us into the middle of the road, kicking and screaming......funny, when we were Reform, we were considered dangerous right-wing loonies for wanting to reform the system, now the complaint is we DON'T change the system, after we've changed to appeal to the voter.......MAKE UP MY MIND!!!!!

Harper man be your man, but he's not an answer to the real issues we're facing in the world today. I bet he's been bought and paid for by the oil lobby and despite what you claim that's probably where a lot of the conservative warchest comes from. Dion is being attacked indirectly by Big Oil through Harper. Elections Canada is investigating campaign donations to the conservatives in the last election right now.

Small donations investigated......as with every Party after every election. I donate to the Party, as do most other Conservative members, THAT is why we have the cash.........we put our money where our mouth is.......and, I must say, the CPC cash campaigners are a PAIN in the ass, they call incessantly looking for more money........the CPC may well be sympathetic to big oil, but they sure as hell ARE NOT bought and paid for, PERIOD

So there :) (necessary to get posted.)
 

Cobalt_Kid

Council Member
Feb 3, 2007
1,760
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Harper isn't taking us to the middle of the road, he's trashing the way our democracy functions in an attempt to remove any accountability the same way Cheney has in the US.

Killing democracy to save it makes no sense to me. I'm all for cleaning house and removing special interests from all sides so that voters do really get what they're promised during elections. I would have been more supporting of Harper if he hadn't immediately started playing the same political games of the past and at a level not seen before. He lost me when he reversed the vote of the people in Vancouver-Kingsway days after the election and appointed Emerson to cabinet just to gain a little more power. We don't need a PM that wants to rule us, we need a PM that wants to give our Parliment back to the people, not make our votes meaningless.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
848
113
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Saint John, N.B.
Harper isn't taking us to the middle of the road, he's trashing the way our democracy functions in an attempt to remove any accountability the same way Cheney has in the US.

I am not happy with much of the legislation the CPC supports.....such as the Anti-terror legislation, mandatory sentencing, nor anything else that muzzles people or that infringes on what are our basic rights to an open trial by jury, the right to remain silent, etc. You are very correct when you say you can't save democracy, or liberty, by destroying it.

Cheney is VP, and doesn't do ANYTHING except be Speaker of the Senate......as LBJ said, "The Vice-Presidency ain't worth a pitcher of warm piss." Gotta love that guy.

Killing democracy to save it makes no sense to me. I'm all for cleaning house and removing special interests from all sides so that voters do really get what they're promised during elections. I would have been more supporting of Harper if he hadn't immediately started playing the same political games of the past and at a level not seen before. He lost me when he reversed the vote of the people in Vancouver-Kingsway days after the election and appointed Emerson to cabinet just to gain a little more power. We don't need a PM that wants to rule us, we need a PM that wants to give our Parliment back to the people, not make our votes meaningless.

I understand what you are saying but, unfortunately, politics increasingly becomes a game of tactics and strategy, and if you want to win, you have to play......what's the solution? I wish I knew.

Every party at every time in our history has allowed people to cross the floor. Many, many years ago it required a by-election, which makes perfect sense to me......
 

Cobalt_Kid

Council Member
Feb 3, 2007
1,760
17
38
Politics are that way because we allow our politicians to make them that way. Harper could have taken the nation in a different direction, but he chose the path of least resistance and we're once again saddled with a government that doesn't want to be honest with us and is only really concerned with getting and holding power.

I'm not against MPs crossing the floor for serious political/ideological differences with their leader or party, but Emerson never even sat in the House after the election. If he wanted to be a conservative MP he should have ran as one, it was borderline election fraud. He and Harper sat down behind closed doors before the ink on the ballots was even dry and decided what was best for them and said to hell with the will of the voters.
 
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Durgan

Durgan
Oct 19, 2005
248
0
16
Brantford, ON
www.durgan.org
Haepwr is setting up a inquiry into the" Mulrooney Affair".

I must say truly this was not expected. I have disliked the mob from the West starting with Bible thumper Manning, then Day, then Harper.

Now I am beginning to take notice of this Harper fellow. Implementing the inquiry is the first event of the CPC that I truly applaud. If Harper opens the party up so that he is not the only spokesman, and quits preaching on morality issues I just might even vote for the CPC- not yet though. Harper's stance on Afghanistan still needs major modifications. Haiti has been forgotten. I could go on but will stop here.

A little off topic. Dion is babbling about poverty in Canada. Yet the Liberals has 13 years to address this issue, and there are still 300,000 children somewhat dependent upon food banks. Why?

Durgan.
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
6,770
137
63
Nov 10, 2007 04:30 AM
bruce campion-smith
tonda maccharles
tracey tyler

OTTAWA–After seeing his name appear in a court document, Prime Minister Stephen Harper has called for an independent review of the relationship between former prime minister Brian Mulroney and a German-Canadian businessman.

Karlheinz Schreiber is suing Mulroney for $300,000, money he says was paid in cash between August 1993 and December 1994 to the former prime minister.
Schreiber, who faces extradition to Germany as early as next week on tax evasion, fraud and bribery charges, alleges Mulroney failed to make good on promises to help with some business ventures.

None of the allegations has been proven in court.

In an affidavit filed in the Ontario Superior Court of Justice, Schreiber refers to a letter he sent Mulroney on July 20, 2006, at Mulroney's request. Schreiber claims Mulroney wanted the letter because he wanted to show it to Harper, to prove "he (Mulroney) and I were on good terms."

In a hastily called news conference, Harper yesterday said he was "surprised to learn that my own name was mentioned" in the court document, but stressed he is not calling for the review for that reason.

"We can't ignore the allegation," Harper said yesterday. "We always have to protect the office of the prime minister."

Harper suggested a review was necessary because of new allegations in the 12-page affidavit filed in court this week:

Schreiber's claim that Mulroney struck a business deal with him while still in office in the summer of 1993 that resulted in the $300,000 in cash payments later paid to the former prime minister.

Schreiber's claim that Mulroney's former aide, Fred Doucet, had asked Schreiber at some unspecified date to "transfer funds from GCI (a government lobbying firm) to Mr. Mulroney's lawyer in Geneva related to the Airbus deal."
Still, Harper had resisted calls from the opposition for an independent inquiry into the Mulroney/Schreiber relationship until yesterday, when he admitted that after the independent review by an impartial person, there could possibly be a public inquiry.

Harper said he might name a person to do the review as early as next week.
It appears Harper was particularly concerned by the fact Schreiber also publicly linked him personally to the affair.

In the July 20, 2006 letter Schreiber sent to Mulroney he said "over the past three months I have learned a lot about the monster that had dogged our footsteps since 1994. Without a doubt, this is the biggest political justice scandal in Canadian history." Schreiber said others are responsible for the scandal and he and Mulroney are the "innocent victims of this vendetta and you are still the prime target."

It was that letter than Schreiber alleges that Mulroney wanted to bring to the meeting with Harper at Harrington Lake in July, 2006.

Harper yesterday denied any July 2006 meeting ever occurred, but he said his family had welcomed Mulroney and his wife to Harrington Lake in August 2006.
"We did not talk about the relationship between Mr, Mulroney and Mr. Schreiber and Mr. Mulroney did not give me any letter," said Harper.
"This series of incidents, this affair has been the subject of all kinds of rumours and innuendo over the years. For that reason it's impossible, frankly, for the government to make an impartial judgment on how to proceed," Harper told reporters.

Harper said Schreiber's allegations, made under oath, for the first time directly touched on Mulroney's time in office as well as the validity of the $2.1 million settlement the government of Canada reached with Mulroney.
"I acknowledge the appointment of an independent and impartial third party to review the allegations. I will co-operate fully with the person appointed," Mulroney said in a written statement.

"Since the new allegation under oath does touch upon Mr. Mulroney's term in office, I think it gives rise to something we have to respond to," Harper said.
"I'm not sure how. I'm quite convinced that this government should not make that decision. That's why we've got to find somebody impartial to give us advice on how we should respond."

Harper said the review could lead to a full-fledged inquiry into the Airbus affair and even force Mulroney to repay the $2.1 million settlement he got from the federal government in an out-of-court libel settlement in 1997.
He cautioned it was "very, very premature" to prejudge the outcome but conceded he wants to know whether the new allegations "have any bearing on the settlement." Mulroney, prime minister from 1984 until 1993, successfully sued the federal government after the justice department named him in a letter alleging his involvement in a kickback scheme for Air Canada's purchase of Airbus jetliners in 1988.

A senior Harper official said later that former prime minister Jean Chrétien will be asked to make available his own government's cabinet discussions about the Airbus affair and the settlement, documents that are usually sealed for more than 20 years.

At his news conference yesterday, Harper urged Canadians to keep the allegations "in context."

"I don't have anything other than these allegations and the allegations do stem from, let's say, a nasty litigation between Mr. Mulroney and Mr. Schreiber."
Harper, who has used Mulroney as a mentor in the past, said he did not talk to the former prime minister in advance of his announcement yesterday.

Now, he has ordered his cabinet members to keep their distance as well.
"I think it will incumbent upon myself and members of the government not to have dealings with Mr. Mulroney until this issue is resolved," Harper said.
Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion suggested Harper's call for a review is little more than a delaying tactic.

"Now that Mr. Schreiber's affidavit has been made public – now that it names Prime Minister Harper himself as an alleged actor in some of the events in question – Mr. Harper seems desperate to look like he is taking action, while actually offering nothing but delay," Dion said yesterday.

The CBC and The Globe and Mail reported last week that Mulroney eventually paid income taxes on the $300,000 cash payments, but not in the years the money was received.

The second allegation is that Schreiber met with Mulroney, again at the former prime minister's request, around Feb. 2, 1998 at a hotel in Zurich, Switzerland.

This was more than a year after the Canadian government apologized to Mulroney for naming him in a letter to Swiss authorities seeking information in an Airbus corruption investigation.

Schreiber says Mulroney's former speechwriter, Paul Therrien, who also wrote speeches for Harper and is now chief of staff to one of Harper's cabinet ministers, escorted him up to Mulroney's room.

At the meeting, Schreiber claims he informed Mulroney about "the earlier request made by Mr. Fred Doucet to transfer funds from GCI to Mr. Mulroney's lawyer in Geneva related to the Airbus deal."

Schreiber does not specify when exactly Doucet made such a request – one that would have undoubtedly influenced the outcome of any negotiations with Mulroney in the Airbus settlement.

At the same meeting, Schreiber says he again explored with Mulroney what other business they could do, including Mulroney's support for a planned pasta business – services Schreiber says Mulroney never rendered.

Schreiber potentially faces removal from Canada as early as Thursday if his latest appeal at the Ontario Court of Appeal fails, but already, lawyer Edward Greenspan says his instructions are to seek leave to appeal to the Supreme Court of Canada if that occurs.

Greenspan would not comment on Harper's move.

"There's no question that Mr. Schreiber believes that politics are playing a very important part in the case. But as a lawyer I'm dealing with an extradition request from Germany for him to return to Germany to stand trial on a number of charges."