Venzuela leads the world against USA

[Nascar_James]

Re: RE: Venzuela leads the world against USA

Hmm..... This expulsion is an interesting predicament. One that can widen this cold conflict, I can't wait and see the actual response by the U.S.

I can. An eye for an eye. Deport all Venezuelan nationals who are not yet US citizens back to their country.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Venzuela leads the wo

That would you lose you a lot of allies in Venezuela, James. Those who support Chavez are not the relatively wealthy Venezuelans who spend time in the US. Those who do spend time in the US tend to be the rich Venezuelans that the US government tries to use to fix elections and execute coups against Chavez.

 

[Nascar_James]

There are still many non wealthy Venezuelan immigrants who move to the US every year for a better life, Rev. They would be in a bad spot if the US would ever retaliate (assuming Chavez does expel the missionaries). Chavez would have only himself to blame for the consequences surrounding his fellow countrymen.

In 1996, the last year for which data was published on this topic, the United States admitted 3,468 Venezuelan immigrants. I surely doubt they were all wealthy.

Considering it takes 5 years to obtain US citizenship once one arrives as a landed immigrant, we are looking at very roughly a possible 15,000 Venezuelan nationals who are legally living in the US that could be deported back to their home country.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Venzuela leads the wo

I don't think you understand how serious the poverty is in Venezuela, James. Poor people there don't have the money to move to the US because they can't afford the process. The people who support Chavez who are in the US are mostly there as illegal immigrants and subject to deportation if they are found anyway.

 

[Nascar_James]

The airfare to travel from Venezuela to the US is typically higher than the fees required by INS for the immigration paperwork.

I did a search on a flight from Caracus to Dallas and came out with a figure of $900 to $1000 US. I don't recall the US immigration fees to be that high. There were several forms, but the total was under $1000 US.

For this reason, I don't think there are too many Venezuelan illegals here. It would cost them more for airfare to come here illegally than the INS fees for the immigration process.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Venzuela leads the wo

They don't fly, James. They don't have the money for that either. They walk, they hitchhike, they catch rides on boats.

 

[PoisonPete2]

I have found a general lack of regard for history or cultural diversity in Venezuala. That Chavez is recognizing the value of indiginous Peoples and is now seeking to protect their rich heritage through land reform is very laudible. If, in doing so, he bans the exploitation of these People by religious Colonialists, more praise to him. Too bad Newfoundland didn't do that for their indiginous people.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Venzuela leads the wo

Newfoundland, like the rest of North America, found that the short-term profits of abusing their indigenous people was far more lucrative than treating them fairly. We are now paying for that.

 

[Karlin]

Thats interesting about the evangelicals.
imperialistic ones at that.
I guess it has been that way for ever, Black Robe, etc.

did any indigenous people ever manage to turn religious people around? No - they don't try, it is of no use to them to make anyone believe what they believe. They are more secure in themselves I guess!

Poor nervous christians... MMoore's Columbine cartoon about Pilgrims summed that up good eh>?Scared, shooting guns at whatever moves, insecure. It is in their training, the religion does that to them.

 

[Jo Canadian]

Re: RE: Venzuela leads the wo

Newfoundland, like the rest of North America, found that the short-term profits of abusing their indigenous people was far more lucrative than treating them fairly. We are now paying for that.

:x Exactly. Haven't the Beothuk been extinct for almost a century or two???

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Thats interesting about the evangelicals.
imperialistic ones at that.
I guess it has been that way for ever, Black Robe, etc.

did any indigenous people ever manage to turn religious people around? No - they don't try, it is of no use to them to make anyone believe what they believe. They are more secure in themselves I guess!

Poor nervous christians... MMoore's Columbine cartoon about Pilgrims summed that up good eh>?Scared, shooting guns at whatever moves, insecure. It is in their training, the religion does that to them.

Me thinks Karlin.......that you have nailed the basic substance of religiosity. .....conditioned FEAR......and personal insecurity. And it is those elements that make them cling to outdated ideas and concepts with such fervor. The more anyone questions them...(ideas) the more tightly they cling to them....(defend them). Yet not any of their concepts /idea CAN be realistically defended. The assumption is that one must buy into their idea of "faith"....."belief" vs REASON. Scientists don't defend their theories as ardently as religous types defend their beliefs.... yet scientists usually have more factual data to support their theories. Such passionate defending is quite irrational.

Fascinating hold this has on the human mind.....and humans actually volunteer to join such groups. Mind you ......America might have some military might..... but it is apparent that the population......as a poeple they are insecure. What would confirm this , is their continuous chest thumping about their country, their flag, THEIR ......(take your pick). Secure people/nations don't brag.........and don't 'need" to.

 

[unclepercy]

Thats interesting about the evangelicals.
imperialistic ones at that.
I guess it has been that way for ever, Black Robe, etc.

did any indigenous people ever manage to turn religious people around? No - they don't try, it is of no use to them to make anyone believe what they believe. They are more secure in themselves I guess!

Poor nervous christians... MMoore's Columbine cartoon about Pilgrims summed that up good eh>?Scared, shooting guns at whatever moves, insecure. It is in their training, the religion does that to them.

Fascinating hold this has on the human mind.....and humans actually volunteer to join such groups. Mind you ......America might have some military might..... but it is apparent that the population......as a poeple they are insecure. What would confirm this , is their continuous chest thumping about their country, their flag, THEIR ......(take your pick). Secure people/nations don't brag.........and don't 'need" to.

From the other point of view: One who is secure needn't bother to continually point out the shortcomings of another.

Uncle

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Thats interesting about the evangelicals.
imperialistic ones at that.
I guess it has been that way for ever, Black Robe, etc.

did any indigenous people ever manage to turn religious people around? No - they don't try, it is of no use to them to make anyone believe what they believe. They are more secure in themselves I guess!

Poor nervous christians... MMoore's Columbine cartoon about Pilgrims summed that up good eh>?Scared, shooting guns at whatever moves, insecure. It is in their training, the religion does that to them.

Fascinating hold this has on the human mind.....and humans actually volunteer to join such groups. Mind you ......America might have some military might..... but it is apparent that the population......as a poeple they are insecure. What would confirm this , is their continuous chest thumping about their country, their flag, THEIR ......(take your pick). Secure people/nations don't brag.........and don't 'need" to.

From the other point of view: One who is secure needn't bother to continually point out the shortcomings of another.

Uncle

..... :wink: ........fair enough........with the EXCEPTION of a public debate/discussion /crtitique forum... :wink:

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Venzuela leads the wo

It's also worth noting that those short-comings threaten the safety of the rest of the planet.

 

[unclepercy]

Re: RE: Venzuela leads the wo

It's also worth noting that those short-comings threaten the safety of the rest of the planet.

But how does pointing and badmouthing help? It doesn't. Is that all you have to offer when the safety of the planet is at stake (your conclusion)?

Uncle

 

[#juan]

Telling the truth is not badmouthing Uncle.

The U.S. have their nose in too many places these days. They had no business in Iraq, and they have no bisiness in Venezuala. The world would be better off if the U.S. found ways to conserve their own energy reserves instead of bullying other countries for theirs.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Telling the truth is not badmouthing Uncle.

The U.S. have their nose in too many places these days. They had no business in Iraq, and they have no bisiness in Venezuala. The world would be better off if the U.S. found ways to conserve their own energy reserves instead of bullying other countries for theirs.

absolutely. :thumbleft: Bullying is one thing........but actually killing people of another nation and setting up a puppet regime (Facsimile US) to grab the resources is another.

sorry the fingerpointing , badmouthing "arguement" don't wash. The US is the author of it's own "finger pointing" etc. IF it started to behave like the civilized nation it "claims" to be..... there might be less rage at the US(R) and population now. If the US is a parriah now..........it created that all by itself. Accountability for ones actions is not just some rhetoric.... for talking heads.

 

[unclepercy]

Telling the truth is not badmouthing Uncle.

The U.S. have their nose in too many places these days. They had no business in Iraq, and they have no bisiness in Venezuala. The world would be better off if the U.S. found ways to conserve their own energy reserves instead of bullying other countries for theirs.

absolutely. :thumbleft: Bullying is one thing........but actually killing people of another nation and setting up a puppet regime (Facsimile US) to grab the resources is another.

sorry the fingerpointing , badmouthing "arguement" don't wash. The US is the author of it's own "finger pointing" etc. IF it started to behave like the civilized nation it "claims" to be..... there might be less rage at the US(R) and population now. If the US is a parriah now..........it created that all by itself. Accountability for ones actions is not just some rhetoric.... for talking heads.

I am not trying to wash anything. I am telling you that it is not helpful to use selective discrimination against an entire country.
And, if you are going to point fingers, it's the index finger. How about pointing it at the new cervical cancer vaccine that was developed in the US? Last week.

It's time someone acknowledged at least SOME of the good things that the US has done instead of getting hung up on one arena that you disagree about.

Uncle

 

[no1important]

RE: Venzuela leads the wo

I would like to stick my middle finger in "w's" face before he is hauled off to war crimes court. That man destroyed a once great country. America has a lot of rebuilding and fence mending to make once that vile person leaves office. I don't see how any supports him and the 50%+ who voted for him are just as guilty. But I think some who voted for him are regretting doing it though, now.

 

[Nascar_James]

Re: RE: Venzuela leads the wo

But I think some who voted for him are regretting doing it though, now.

Nope. If President Bush was permitted to run for a third term, I would surely vote for him again. I, like other folks in the US agree with many of his policies.