Venzuela leads the world against USA

Nascar_James

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Jun 6, 2005
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#juan said:
I said no CIA bullshit! Can you possibly deny that the CIA overthrew the democratically elected governments of Chile, and Nicaragua? Fairy tales are on another board.

Since when is Robert P. Jackson, Director from the Office for the Promotion of Human Rights and Democracy associated with the CIA? Am I missing something here???

Perhaps the Office for the Promotion of Human rights and Democracy have recently in a far-far-fetched move, merged with the CIA? heh heh heh ... that's a good one ....
 

Reverend Blair

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Apr 3, 2004
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RE: Venzuela leads the wo

It can't get any more discredited than that, Nascar Nero. Your government is deeply involved in trying to push Chavez out of power. Leave Faux Gnus their lies and propaganda, they don't need your help and it seriously brings your own credibility into question.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
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Maybe he can't use a link....

AFL-CIO in Venezuela: Déjà Vu All Over Again

by Kim Scipes
April 2004

Massive mobilizations, strikes, street conflict, hysterical mass media, social and economic disruption: Chile in 1972-73 Venezuela in 2002-04.

The AFL-CIO is once again on the scene, this time in Venezuela, just as it was in Chile in 1973. Once again, its operations in that country are being funded by the U.S. government. This time, the money is being laundered through the quasi-governmental National Endowment for Democracy, hidden from AFL-CIO members and the American public.

Once again, it is being used to support the efforts of reactionary labor and business leaders, helping to destabilize a democratically-elected government that has made major efforts to alleviate poverty, carried out significant land reform in both urban and rural areas, and striven to change political institutions that have long worked to marginalize those at the lowest rungs in society. And also like Allende's Chile, Venezuela's government under president Hugo Chavez has opposed a number of actions by the U.S. Government, this time by the Bush Administration.

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez is a former mid-level Army officer, proud of his indigenous roots and with an avid interest in addressing the exclusion of those on the lowest rungs of society. When he helped lead a coup against the government in February 1992, the effort was unsuccessful. Defeated and captured, Chavez was imprisoned but later pardoned.

Following his release from prison, he helped create a movement with an electoral component, and was elected President in December 1998, with 56 percent of the vote. His closest competitor received 39 percent. According to Professor Steve Ellner, one of the most knowledgeable observers of the situation of Venezuelan workers, an important part of Chavez' popularity with the poor stems from his belief that "the plight of the poor took priority over the protection of private property."

Chavez and his efforts are contradictory: although he advocates including the poor in the political process, he has done so in a top-down manner. His movement is ideologically unfocused and internally contradictory. It has not focused on building organizations to empower the poor. It has appealed to the poor to mobilize to support his government's efforts.

In many ways and over a number of years, the poor have responded, most notably by overturning the April 2002 coup attempt, led by reactionary labor leaders, top business leaders, and the business federation that had deposed Chavez and tried to exile him by force. (This is similar to what recently happened to President Aristide in Haiti.) A split within the military-Chavez commands tremendous respect in the ranks with the military-foiled his kidnapping and kept high-level officers from suppressing the mass mobilization. Chavez was returned unharmed to the Presidential Palace when millions of people surged against the putschists.

But social conflict has continued ever since. Most notable was the 63-day strike led by senior management in Venezuela's oil industry between late 2002 and early 2003. This strike, with accompanying sabotage, caused a shattering 27 percent drop in the Gross Domestic Product in the first trimester of 2003, resulting in great social and economic turmoil, and depriving the government of massive amounts of money that it had been using to fund social programs.

The war against the government has continued ever since, with the AFL-CIO's American Center for International Labor Solidarity (ACILS) deeply involved.
 

Karlin

Council Member
Jun 27, 2004
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Our Nascar fan isn't making any points to support Chavez... while the evidence piles up of illegal AmericanCorporateElite tampering in the other-wise fair and honest proceedings of political reforms in Venezueala.

The one hit Nas has is the Amnesty reports of abuses by police forces in Venezuela.
From Amnesty international in 2004:
the response of the Guardia Nacional and other branches of the security forces frequently involved excessive use of force, apparently contributing to spiralling violence rather than preventing or controlling it.

At least 14 people died in the context of the disturbances in circumstances that have yet to be clarified. Several of those who were detained were severely ill-treated or tortured by members of the security forces, violating the fundamental rights of detained persons and the right to physical and mental integrity.
http://www.canadiancontent.net/en/j...library/Index/ENGAMR530052004?open&of=ENG-VEN

But to blame that on Chavez, or use it to say his whole platform is evil and must be stopped is unsupported:
- Police forces are notoriously corruptable, and even just a constable could be paid by USA [cia] people to commit abuses to make someone look bad. [And no, you can't use that idea to excuse what happens at Guantanamo]
- Chavez doesn't/didn't have control of his military and police forces. Heck, some of them were on the other side of the attempted coup to oust Chavez.

-----

So long live the hero of the people.

As for Nas, I think the evidence has overwhelmed his position and the glaring truth must be very hard to take. Losing confidence in someone you trusted is not easy to go thru.
I went thru that myself, but here on the other side, when you finally see the depth of depravity that BushCo uses, you will feel better knowing you see it rather than are still supporting it.
 

GL Schmitt

Electoral Member
Mar 12, 2005
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It seems nobody has sufficient leverage to pull Nascar_James head from out of his posterior orifice when it comes to seeing the truth about Hugo Chavez. Jimbo is in the thrall of a kind of neocon navel-gazing undreamt of by Siddharta Gautama.

I am, however, still awaiting some response to my post of October 1st. Especially now, as Chavez has just taken his first step down the path toward trashing the American petrodollar advantage.

GL Schmitt said:
Nascar_James said:
No one's going to take anything coming out of Chavez's mouth seriously. ...
Au contraire, mon Capitain!

I do.

And if Chavez can lead other OPEC nations away from using American currency, that will lead to the fall of the PetroDollar, and the rise (probably) of the PetroEuro.

It is the PetroDollar which has assured America’s affluence while running a trade deficit.

Trying to sell petroleum for Euros, not gassing Kurds or stockpiling non-existent weapons of mass destruction was, after all, Saddam’s true fatal sin.
 

Nascar_James

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GL Schmitt said:
It seems nobody has sufficient leverage to pull Nascar_James head from out of his posterior orifice when it comes to seeing the truth about Hugo Chavez. Jimbo is in the thrall of a kind of neocon navel-gazing undreamt of by Siddharta Gautama.

I am, however, still awaiting some response to my post of October 1st. Especially now, as Chavez has just taken his first step down the path toward trashing the American petrodollar advantage.

GL Schmitt said:
Nascar_James said:
No one's going to take anything coming out of Chavez's mouth seriously. ...
Au contraire, mon Capitain!

I do.

And if Chavez can lead other OPEC nations away from using American currency, that will lead to the fall of the PetroDollar, and the rise (probably) of the PetroEuro.

It is the PetroDollar which has assured America’s affluence while running a trade deficit.

Trying to sell petroleum for Euros, not gassing Kurds or stockpiling non-existent weapons of mass destruction was, after all, Saddam’s true fatal sin.

Looks like the US dollar is at a 3 month high against the euro.

The dollar stuck close to its strongest level in more than 16 months against the yen and hovered near three-month highs against the euro today as investors traded on expectations of higher U.S. interest rates.

Here's a link to Reuters ...

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticleSearch.aspx?storyID=172964+04-Oct-2005+RTRS
 

mrmom2

Senate Member
Mar 8, 2005
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Reuters the news agency that says US soldiers are targeting their journalists in Iraq.Funny how your using them to make your point :wink:
 

Nascar_James

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In addition to Amnesty International, the Inter-American Human Rights Commission also expressed concern at Chavez's Human Rights Violations. It is so commonspread, that everyone's uncle knows about it. If they don't, they've been hiding underneath a rock the past several years.

Last year, many Venezuelan citizens were killed or arrested under Chavez in clashes sparked by Chavez's authorities decision to reject a petition seeking a recall vote against Chavez.

It appears the leftist-leaning Chavez has become increasingly autocratic.

Venezuelan citizens submitted more than 3 million signatures the prior year demanding a recall election. About 2.4 million signatures are required for a vote. Why did Chanvez not have a recall election as required by law instead of arresting and/or killing his own citizens?

Read the full details (p.s. cbs news is a left leaning news source)...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/08/06/world/main634466.shtml
 

Ocean Breeze

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Jun 5, 2005
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NJ.
One Nation Under God Indivisible"

sorry for a wee (momentary ) diversion..........but you CANNOT possibly mean the US in that sig :? ........ can you???
 

#juan

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Aug 30, 2005
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Venezuelan Elections Offer Hope of Real Reform

By Mark Weisbrot


The electoral victory of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez on Sunday, greeted with celebration by the country's poor majority, may have implications beyond Venezuela's borders.

Chavez' "revolution from above" is in many ways a logical response to the last 20 years of Latin American attempts at social change. In countries such as El Salvador and Guatemala in the 1980s, activists organized grassroots movements of peasants, laborers, and religious "base communities." They were slaughtered mercilessly by death squads and allied militaries that had nearly unlimited support from Washington.

So it is not surprising that Chavez would begin with an effort to consolidate power. But his popularity among the citizenry runs deep.

This can be seen by their continued loyalty in the face of adversity. The Venezuelan economy shrank by 7.2% last year-- a severe contraction by any standard-- yet the voters have stood by him in a referendum, a Constituent Assembly, the ratification of a new Constitution, and now the approval of a new six-year term. For comparison, just look what happened to George Bush, Sr. when he had the misfortune to run for re-election on the heels of a relatively mild recession here, or Jimmy Carter in the recession of 1980.

So why are so many Venezuelans so willing to give Chavez a fresh mandate to cure the country's ills? Probably because they believe that he is honest and trying to do what is best for them. He has cleaned up corruption in the judiciary and tackled prison reform, and created new constitutional rights for the country's indigenous people. He has begun to mobilize the armed forces to help with the provision of social services. His overall economic program is less clear, but at least he is talking about alternatives to the policies that have caused a steady decline in per capita income over the last two decades.

For now, Chavez reminds us, the Venezuelan revolution has been carried out "without a single drop of blood." Recently an Army captain formed a "patriotic junta" dedicated to removing the President, and admitted to Newsweek that his group had discussed killing the president as an option. In the United States this would carry a serious, possibly lifelong prison term-- but Captain Garcia Morales was merely dismissed.

Such efforts to avoid violent confrontation and repression have won Chavez no friends in the US foreign policy establishment. They seem to have more sympathy with the government of Colombia, where peasants, labor leaders, and even human rights workers are routinely murdered with impunity.

In some ways we are witnessing a replay of Central America in the 1980s, with Colombia as El Salvador, and America pouring in billions of dollars to escalate a war against an insurgency it can never defeat. Venezuela is playing the role of Nicaragua-- a popular, left-of-center, nationalist government struggling to survive and fulfill its promises to the poor.

The dominoes are bigger this time around, and Washington knows it. Its "savage neoliberalism," --as Chavez describes trickle-down economics-- has failed not only the poor, but also the average household in Latin America for two decades now. Since 1980, income per person has hardly grown at all in the entire continent.

In most countries, political change has been held in check by despair and cynicism. So if the Chavez government can provide hope with an alternative that improves people's lives, there's no telling what might happen.

The United States has a long and sordid history of destabilizing democratically elected governments that it doesn't like in Latin America and the Caribbean. The Clinton Administration has been relatively quiet about Chavez so far, apparently hoping that capital flight and internal opposition from the wealthy and a hostile news media will suffice to bring an end to his experiment. And indeed, over the last year, investors have taken an amount equal to about nine percent of the country's income out of the
country.

Nonetheless we may soon see more pro-active strategies from Washington to undermine Venezuela's new deal. In the 1980s, our government spent billions to ruin Nicaragua's economy, through war and embargo. It never recovered: ten years after the ouster of the Sandinistas, Nicaragua is the second poorest country in the hemisphere.

The Venezuelans have six times as many people and the largest oil reserves outside the Middle East, so they have at least a fighting chance. Perhaps it is time for the millions of Americans who tried to stop our government from destroying Nicaragua to begin thinking about how to make sure that history does not repeat itself.
 

Nascar_James

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Ocean Breeze said:
NJ.
One Nation Under God Indivisible"

sorry for a wee (momentary ) diversion..........but you CANNOT possibly mean the US in that sig :? ........ can you???

Of course Ocean, why not? It is part of the US Pledge of Allegiance.

Here's the pledge ...

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America , and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
 

Andygal

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May 13, 2005
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The only allegiance the neo-cons have is to money.

And power. But then money and power are pretty much the same thing in this corperate ruled world of ours.

The neocons couldn't care less about the masses, they will talk nice to get their support then happily screw them over in favour of the rich fat cats. Cause they don't give a damn about anybody but themselves.
 

Ocean Breeze

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Jun 5, 2005
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Nascar_James said:
Ocean Breeze said:
NJ.
One Nation Under God Indivisible"

sorry for a wee (momentary ) diversion..........but you CANNOT possibly mean the US in that sig :? ........ can you???

Of course Ocean, why not? It is part of the US Pledge of Allegiance.

Here's the pledge ...

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America , and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

NJ......sorry, but I have to chuckle at your expense. ......Even your pledge is one big lie. :wink:

should probably say: with liberty and justice to the wealthy. Everyone else for him/herself. :wink:

.............and for the life of me......I cannot understand why ordinarily normal people would want to "pledge allegience" to a piece of cloth. and do it with such fervor and passion. .....


but each to his own... :wink:
 

Ocean Breeze

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GL Schmitt said:
Ocean Breeze said:
. . . why ordinarily normal people would want to "pledge allegience" to a piece of cloth. . . .
Surely you know how intense some gays get over fabrics, Ocean. :wink:
:lol: :lol: :wink: Nice comeback... :wink:

( but I am finding out.... :wink:
 

no1important

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Jan 9, 2003
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RE: Venzuela leads the wo

Chavez moves against US preachers

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has said he is about to expel a US missionary group, New Tribes Mission.

The leftist leader said the missionaries were "imperialists" and he felt "ashamed" at their presence in indigenous areas of Venezuela.

He accused the Florida-based group of making unauthorised flights and setting up luxurious camps amid poverty.

Caracas has suggested that American evangelicals are part of a broader conspiracy in Washington to topple a president whose regional influence is growing thanks to massive oil revenues, the BBC's Simon Watts writes.

Click above link for the whole article.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
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RE: Venzuela leads the wo

The NTM site says, among other things, that
NTM's missionaries are planting tribal churches to reach people who have never had a single opportunity to hear the Good News. Our vision is for every tribe to have the opportunity to hear and respond to the Gospel.

Yeah, missionaries. "Do as we say or we'll let you starve."