US in deep trouble for killing 60 children!!

einmensch

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Mar 1, 2008
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Quote from Zoro--There is a reason that combatants are treated as criminals and executed if they are caught outside of uniforms.
But they don't have any uniforms. So the game is no prisoners?? But is there not a Bay not far from the Bay of Pigs where there are a few in Orange??

 

Praxius

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Dec 18, 2007
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You know, you have quite the flawed logic in this..... along with lack of proper details.

So you easily roll in? Now what? Now you in point blank range of their soldiers when they come in at the same time as the civilians. If you return fire, you STILL mangle civilians. Those lines of civilians you see INCLUDE taliban. The Taliban aren't stupid. They go where the shields go. If you stick around while the civilians come back, they come back too, and shoot you.

Show me a situation where this has occured. When the civilians come back in, you don't think our troops don't search and question people coming back in to make sure they're not loaded up with weapons for an attack within the area in which they now control?

In every situation I have followed and read, villages and towns remained secured, until we spread ourselves too thin and leave....... then the villages and townspeople report and complain that the Taliban rolled right back in and they need help..... then the US comes in and bombs the hell out of them..... great help.

This is why our troops have been bitching and moaning for additional troops in the areas we are patrolling, because this continually happens time and time again.

They aren't retarded, and while they are willing to die to kill you, they aren't willing to die just for target practice.

They will die to hold a key position, just as we would..... that's how it goes.

Well then you haven't solved anything. They go with the civilians, if you stay there, they return with the civilians and kill you as you are now in range of them, and you still can't return fire. If you leave and move on, they just come back with everyone else.

Shows what you truly know.

There is a reason that combatants are treated as criminals and executed if they are caught outside of uniforms.

Yeah yeah.... I heard this all before a few hundred years ago by the British Empire.

Some people like to deal with an issue rather than push it back and forth pointlessly while you suck up landmines.

Yeah, deal with an issue, by blowing the hell out of the people you're there to protect, thereby angering more of the people you're trying to protect, who then decide to take up arms against you, countering everything you're trying to do, due to your own dumb ass actions...... great way to deal with an issue all right.

Well, in the magic land of make believe special forces troopers are all super elite and have no problem pulling this off day in day out.

Just as in Make Believe, you could pull off killing 2-4 Million people....

If the military were infallible, then you wouldn't have missiles that go off target and hit civilians.

Oh yeah, paint all the NATO forces and countries with the actions of the idiotic US's Military...... maybe they shouldn't be using missiles in the first damn place when civilians are in close proximity? Wow... what a concept.

Special ops forces have their own blunders, wrongful killings, etc that get their own condemnation AND they risk your own mens lives to a far greater degree.

Whoopie doo. 1 Option among a few others I could give you... however I'll only play a hypothetical for so far and so long.

Very true, so you stand by and let someone be murdered. Except thats never been the way humans operate.

Generalizing Humans again are we?

If I go to the police and say "Im going to murder 2 people, and your gonna let me otherwise I'll murder 4", they don't sit back and let you murder 2 people.

If you're an diot and goto the police and say that, you're not going to have a chance to do either, because it is their job to protect the public, that was a direct threat to the public, you're right there in front of them.... they're gonna take you down.

Nice plan Napoleon

Because then everyone would do it, and no one would be safe. People have to make stands.

Nice flawed logic.

But the ends ALWAYS justify the means. Everything in our day to day life is run by that belief.

Maybe by you, not by myself.... and you sure as hell do not speak for me.

When we go through something as simple as punishing a criminal, we cause that person to have a worse quality of life because it results in a better quality of life for everyone else.

No, making them have a worse quality of life doesn't result in better quality of life for anybody else.... everybody else's lives will remain the same as before. They are punished for their crimes, and with any luck, learn from their actions and better themselves..... that's how it's ment to work.... not as a revenge tool to make us feel better about ourselves.

We send an officer to arrest him, knowing he might attack and kill the officer, because if we don't, things will only get worse.

Hell even self-defence is the ends justifying the means, you kill someone because if you don't you die.

Human civilization is built upon the ends justifying the means.

Only for a select twisted few.
 
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dancing-loon

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Oct 8, 2007
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No tears in west for 60 Afghan children

The August 22 massacre of civilians is the worst single incident in the past seven years. At the rate civilians are killed in Afghanistan, with little or no condemnations from Nato countries which form the core of the ISAF, one wonders whether the Afghans are lesser mortals.

Imagine what would happen if a terrorist kills 95 US citizens or citizens of any of the Nato countries. Such a massacre would have dominated the headlines for weeks, if not months. Giving a melodramatic touch, the western media would also carry photographs of the dead children, interviews with their neighbours, friends and teachers and statements of grieving parents and political leaders. But 60 Afghan children who died in the US attack had none of it. No speaker addressing the ongoing Democratic Party convention, where anti-Iraq-war-and-pro-Afghan-war Barack Obama is being officially anointed as the candidate of the party, dared to mention the Afghan civilian massacre, though they talked about US troops serving in Afghanistan and Iraq.

It is not only the US troops who kill civilians in Afghanistan. The British, the Canadians and others in the ISAF also kill civilians with impunity and later say "sorry" and promise compensation after investigations. Very little happens after these empty words.

Besides the August 22 incident, the Americans are responsible for a series of other incidents in which civilians were killed. The major incidents involving US troops this year are:
June 10: At least 30 were killed in the village of Ebrahim Kariz, Mata Khan district of Paktika Province when US forces launched an air and ground attack on the village allegedly targeting a "militant hideout." Residents said that among the dead were dozens of civilians.
July 4: Twenty-three civilians were killed in US air strikes in the district of Waygal in the province of Nouristan.
July 6: Forty-seven civilians attending a wedding (including the bride) were killed in US air strikes in Nangarhar province.
July 14: Officials in Nuristan province said almost 30 defenseless civilians were killed during an ISAF air strike in Want-Waigal district.
July 15: US Forces admit to killing eight civilians in the Bakwa district of Farah province.
July 20: Nine civilians were killed in a US air strike in the Ana Darreh district of Farah province.
August 7: US troops say they "inadvertently" killed four women and a child in an exchange of fire in an area of central Ghazni province. (Source Wikipedia)

Coming back to the August 22 incident, it is still a mystery how the civilians came to be targeted. The people had gathered in the village of Azizabad in Herat province to attend the traditional 40th day almsgiving after the death of a village leader. The villagers say there was no Taleban activity in the area.

But the US military had a different version, which contained several contradictions. Firstly, the US admission of 30 killed goes against the UN figure of more than 90 and the initial figure of 76 released by the Afghan government. Secondly, government officials in Herat say there was no Afghan troop involvement in the killing. But the Americans say the US air support was called in by Afghan troops who were ambushed by a group of Taleban militants led by a man named Mullah Siddiq.

Afghansitan's Islamic Affairs Minister Nematullah Shahrani told AFP that the US military had claimed the Taleban were there. "They must prove it. So far, it is not clear for us why the coalition conducted the air strikes," he said.

Naturally, the people were angry. They held days of protests shouting slogans against the United States and their puppet president Hamid Karzai, whose writ does not extend beyond Kabul. Even those writs he issues require the US rubber stamp.

Karzai issued what has now become a customary condemnation. He blamed the ISAF and said those killed had been "martyred".

The word "martyring" has a powerful meaning in Islam. A shaheed or martyred person never dies and his soul departs in a state of purity. Karzai used the word shaheed to mitigate the people's anger and bring the situation under control. He also sacked two Afghan generals. They had played no part in the massacre. But someone's head had to roll. So Karzai picked on two Afghan generals, because he could not act against the haughty and mighty American troops.

But little does Karzai realize that he is also responsible for the wanton killing of innocent civilians, for he and the Americans are one and the same.

The massacre also points to desperation on the part of the ISAF, which has faced serious setbacks in recent months.

In their desperation, the foreign troops apparently do not mind killing even 100 civilians if it yields one Taleban militant.

But such a policy only drives the people towards the Taleban, who still enjoy the support of the Afghan people, especially among the Pashtoons who make up nearly 50 percent of the Afghan population and who are poorly represented in the government of Karzai, who is himself a Pashtoon.

It seems the Afghan war is far from being won. The Taleban's power is expanding, not only in Afghanistan, but also in neighbouring Pakistan.

http://www.dailymirror.lk/DM_BLOG/Se...px?ARTID=24676
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Do we still know why we are there?
 

lone wolf

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Do we still know why we are there?

Yeah ... so my grandkids can say "Merry Christmas" in their own country without some offended party threatening their right to do so....

There are religious crazies vying for control there. Whether it's an Allied bomb or a Taliban landmine, Afghan citizens are being killed. I believe the Allies probablt feel those deaths more than the control freak extremists do ... or Tallywhackers wouldn't hide among citizens.
 
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unclepercy

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Jun 4, 2005
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Sixty children? This is not the first time the U. S. has killed children with air strikes. In Viet Nam three million people were killed by air strikes. It is said that half were children. The U.S. held accountable? By whom?

Well, 30% of the population of Vietnam moved to the good old USA. How do you explain that? Japan is so mad at us for bombing Hiroshima that most signs in CA are in English and Japanese. What is that about? A huge Japanese population? Russia had the pants scared off of us in the 1950's. Hilarious now. They are moving here like lemmings.

No one stays mad too long. How many Canadians have moved to the USA? Since no war, bombs or anything remotely horrible has happened to you - perpetrated by the US - how do you explain that? Lucy, you have a lot of 'splaining to do.

Uncle
 
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dancing-loon

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Yeah ... so my grandkids can say "Merry Christmas" in their own country without some offended party threatening their right to do so....

There are religious crazies vying for control there. Whether it's an Allied bomb or a Taliban landmine, Afghan citizens are being killed. I believe the Allies probablt feel those deaths more than the control freak extremists do ... or Tallywhackers wouldn't hide among citizens.
Aha!!! Your God tells you to go over there and kill'm off, even their children!:roll::roll: Poor Wolf, that loneliness is effecting your brain waves!:p:lol:;-):roll:8O
 

wallyj

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May 7, 2006
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If the Taliban were allowed to hide among civilians without any retribution they will use that tactic to survive and grow stronger. The stronger they are,the more CANADIAN soldiers die. The afghans are not stupid,they realize that harbouring a Taliban may cause them their life.They will have to realize that they have to take care of the problem themselves. Until they do,we will stay to help.
 

Risus

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May 24, 2006
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Yeah ... so my grandkids can say "Merry Christmas" in their own country without some offended party threatening their right to do so....

.
You can do that in our country without even shooting a shot over there. Come on, get real!
 

lone wolf

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You can do that in our country without even shooting a shot over there. Come on, get real!

Yeah? Tell that to my four-year-old grand daughter who was corrected for saying Merry Christmas at school.... It's not politially correct because it offends the Johnny-come-latelies in Toronto
 

lone wolf

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Aha!!! Your God tells you to go over there and kill'm off, even their children!:roll::roll: Poor Wolf, that loneliness is effecting your brain waves!:p:lol:;-):roll:8O

My God tells me SFA ... and now you are getting offensive. You're a lot for listening to those loonies who believe God is on their side aren't you? Do you want Georgie boy too? Why don't you go over there and tell them to keep the wives and kiddies out of the war zone? Lonliness? I think that's the thing affecting you
 
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normbc9

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Nov 23, 2006
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Listen and follow this issue carefully. The US now has it's own investigators at the scene and they have a different story. In my military days I saw this happen. The government on whose soil this occurred will be invited to participate too and hopefully they will. But the final released report will no doubt completely change the whole story about what happened. Why? Because they have a long history of this practice. There are three versions of what happened. 1) from those there when it happened. 2) from those who came in later and made their own decisions about what happened. 3) the reports from the "Special Investigation Team" saying what they are told to say what happened. This isn't over yet. The word magicians haven't arrived yet to adjust the spin.
 

dancing-loon

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Listen and follow this issue carefully. The US now has it's own investigators at the scene and they have a different story. In my military days I saw this happen. The government on whose soil this occurred will be invited to participate too and hopefully they will. But the final released report will no doubt completely change the whole story about what happened. Why? Because they have a long history of this practice. There are three versions of what happened. 1) from those there when it happened. 2) from those who came in later and made their own decisions about what happened. 3) the reports from the "Special Investigation Team" saying what they are told to say what happened. This isn't over yet. The word magicians haven't arrived yet to adjust the spin.
Hi, Norm;
thanks for telling us your own firsthand experience. Those investigations are highly susceptible to fog and manipulation! Their version will be interesting...yawn!!
To this day I suspect that friendly fire, killing four Canadian soldiers, was not an accident!
 

dancing-loon

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My God tells me SFA ... and now you are getting offensive. You're a lot for listening to those loonies who believe God is on their side aren't you? Do you want Georgie boy too? Why don't you go over there and tell them to keep the wives and kiddies out of the war zone? Lonliness? I think that's the thing affecting you
:lol: Alright... what does SFA stand for?
I didn't feel offensive, dear Wolf, just a little irritated by your post.... so, I took the Christ line and shot back. Can you not see the irony/hypocrisy/contradiction in your own post? Well, I could. If you are worried your grandchildren won't be able to celebrate Christmas because of the Taliban coming over here, and that's why we have to go over there and fight them, then you totally forget Christ's message to his followers... love one another. I meant to point out what's wrong with too many so called Christians.... they ignore Christ's teachings. Are you one of them? If so, then you are a bad example to your grandchildren!
I think this is a bad case of misunderstanding on your part. :roll:;-)
 

lone wolf

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:lol: Alright... what does SFA stand for?
I didn't feel offensive, dear Wolf, just a little irritated by your post.... so, I took the Christ line and shot back. Can you not see the irony/hypocrisy/contradiction in your own post? Well, I could. If you are worried your grandchildren won't be able to celebrate Christmas because of the Taliban coming over here, and that's why we have to go over there and fight them, then you totally forget Christ's message to his followers... love one another. I meant to point out what's wrong with too many so called Christians.... they ignore Christ's teachings. Are you one of them? If so, then you are a bad example to your grandchildren!
I think this is a bad case of misunderstanding on your part. :roll:;-)

Loon ... are you on drugs? I see a lot of complete and annoying silliness in your posts of late. Screw the Christian stuff and please do stop reading your garbage into my posts.

You might want to consider fanatic Islam's message too. Kill the infidels. Do some research. There's really no need for you to look so uninteligent.

Thank you
 

dancing-loon

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Loon ... are you on drugs? I see a lot of complete and annoying silliness in your posts of late. Screw the Christian stuff and please do stop reading your garbage into my posts.

You might want to consider fanatic Islam's message too. Kill the infidels. Do some research. There's really no need for you to look so uninteligent.

Thank you
I am who I am.... take it or leave it, short-tempered Wolf!:lol:!!!!
 

lone wolf

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I am who I am.... take it or leave it, short-tempered Wolf!:lol:!!!!

Then I prefer to leave it.

I have done the patience thing and tried to explain, to the best of my ability, in the hopes you might understand and not be so bitter toward people who are going to return home feeling terrible about things they have seen and deeds they have done. It seems, from you and your "baby killer" mentality, they can expect no empathy. It may have gone completely over your head that I am against the war ... but I also realize the fanatic part of Islam will carry their war to these shores if it isn't keeping them busy over there. Sorry the world doesn't work your way.
 
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Zzarchov

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Prax I don't even know where to begin in your last post with the logic flaws.

Perhaps I am just bad at explaining them, or understanding middle steps in your logic I just don't see.

But there is massive self contradiction in there.
 

Praxius

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Prax I don't even know where to begin in your last post with the logic flaws.

Perhaps I am just bad at explaining them, or understanding middle steps in your logic I just don't see.

But there is massive self contradiction in there.

Not really, it's probably to do with middle steps I figured that would have explained themselves without needing explination.... which would be my doing.

When we look back at the histories of people in the past, we look at what they did, not what they hoped to do. I imagine Bush didn't expect things to go exactly as they did, and probably had other ends he wished to reach..... however his means didn't get him to his ends, thereby no justification is present at all.

He stayed the course no matter what the costs, or what the means, because he thought that would get him to his ends..... they didn't and that's the gamble when you live your life with the mentality that the Ends justify the Means...... they only justify if you actually reach your end goal, and that end goal must be better then the entire method of reaching that end goal, or there's no justification at all.

To me, it's a mentality that you have a goal you want to reach, but with no logical method of reaching it.... trying to hit the finish line before you even start the race..... screw ups happen a lot that way..... and before you know it... the means mean squat and the ends are not what everybody expected, and everybody loses one way or another.

The Ends Justify the Means is a selfish mentality that allows those in power to escape any liability for their actions.... and just because you stole a bank robber's car and thus he got caught, doesn't remove the fact that you stole a car and shouldn't be punished for your crimes.
 

Praxius

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If the Taliban were allowed to hide among civilians without any retribution they will use that tactic to survive and grow stronger. The stronger they are,the more CANADIAN soldiers die. The afghans are not stupid,they realize that harbouring a Taliban may cause them their life.They will have to realize that they have to take care of the problem themselves. Until they do,we will stay to help.

Jesus, you make it sound like the Taliban give them a choice in the matter.

"Hey you, we're going to take over your home and setup a MG for left flank."

"Well the wife and I were about to sit down and have dinner."

"Mmmmm... smells good, can we have some?"

"Well, no, see we don't have much to go around, now if you would excuse us, we're about to watch Big Brother afterwards."

"Oh, ok then.... sorry we bothered you, have a wonderful night and paise Allah."

Come on, stop being so foolish.
 

Praxius

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Yeah? Tell that to my four-year-old grand daughter who was corrected for saying Merry Christmas at school.... It's not politially correct because it offends the Johnny-come-latelies in Toronto

I guess you should move to Nova Scotia then..... last I checked, you're allowed to say whatever you want anywhere you want, so long as it's within good intention.

Oh, and I didn't know there was a time limit for when people can become citizens of our country and still have valid input..... so you were here first, so your voice should have more influence then someone who just came here a year ago?

That's pretty arrogant. You're sure as hell ain't anymore special then any other citizen in this country, no matter how many years you have under your belt compared to the next, or the colour of your skin.