US Approaching Insolvency, Fix To Be 'Painful': Fisher

darkbeaver

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Jan 26, 2006
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With regards to the bailouts, you're right. Disgusting. Nauseating.

Those bailouts and perks and power sharing have continued unabated since 1913. It is long past the time that the American treasury be put back to work and the Federal Reservist arrested and hanged after a short but sort of fair trial. Barring that America will go down the imperial waste disposal shute. History repeats itself with perfect regularity. I really do wish you good luck down there because if America does not wake up and fight the enemy in its midst the rest of us will fall one by one until nothing and no one moves breaths or eats without the permission of private bankers.
 

petros

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Nov 21, 2008
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Those bailouts and perks and power sharing have continued unabated since 1913. It is long past the time that the American treasury be put back to work and the Federal Reservist arrested and hanged after a short but sort of fair trial. Barring that America will go down the imperial waste disposal shute. History repeats itself with perfect regularity. I really do wish you good luck down there because if America does not wake up and fight the enemy in its midst the rest of us will fall one by one until nothing and no one moves breaths or eats without the permission of private bankers.
Congress can save their asses by doing the following while pissing off and loosening the grips of the Fed.

Issue a $50 silver coin and $100 gold coin and ditch the paper ones.
 

chrisrich

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Mar 23, 2011
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I really think that the US is just going to hyper-inflate until the dollar collapses. Then the oligarchs can pay back their debts with worthless currency and leave other nations holding the bag for their reckless spending. There doesn't seem to be any desire in Washington to make cuts of any kind. Welcome to the casino economy.
 

captain morgan

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Of course the only possibility of salvage of America is not mentioned. The single biggest recipient of pork are the private banking and financial institutions. Either the planet rids themselves of these parasitic criminals or only the criminals will survive.


But, then who would kick-into the tax kitty to support the 40% pf the population that pay no taxes at all?
 

EagleSmack

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I really think that the US is just going to hyper-inflate until the dollar collapses. Then the oligarchs can pay back their debts with worthless currency and leave other nations holding the bag for their reckless spending. There doesn't seem to be any desire in Washington to make cuts of any kind. Welcome to the casino economy.

Oh Heavens! Not the Oligarchs!
 

coldstream

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Oct 19, 2005
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There are two options, raise taxes or cut spending.

There is a much better option. In fact it is the only option. And that is to monetarize its national debt. And use this facility to provide future financing until it can reimpose some equilibrium in tax and spending by reinvigorating its REAL productive economy.

But this will only work if it reestablishes a true national system of political economy. That will require -

- permanent tariffs;

- a national plan to reestablish an integrated and protected manufacturing base through domestic investment, public and private;

- reestablishment of progressive tax policies, away from regressive, demand destroying, sales taxes;

- sovereign control of currency and credit by nationalizing the Federal Reserve, as a politically responsible organ in producing currency and credit policies in the national interest.

The latter one is critical, in establishing a Bank of the United States, and preventing it from acting as quisling for Wall Street and Global trading interests, run by stooges and fools like Alan Greenspan.

In a collapsing economy there is no way the government will be able to cut spending fast enough to compensate for dwindling tax revenue.
 
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Machjo

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There are two options, raise taxes or cut spending.

Correction, three options, the third being the first two options combined. Tax and axe as they call it. And that will likely come to Canada too soon enough, albeit not to the same extreme as in the US where it will be particularly painful. But Canada will need some tax and axe too.

Their dollar keeps losing value because they are broke. Same as your credit rating when all your credit cards are maxxed out and you are still spending like a drunken sailor on shore leave. No business can survive with deficit spending for long as the auto industry has shown us and governments are no different. The real problem is that politicians are more interested in stroking their egos and getting re elected than doing what is right.

Governments are different in that even if they do go bankrupt, unlike companies, they continue to exist or are replaced with a different one. But there are definitely differences between a government and a company.
 

EagleSmack

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Correction, three options, the third being the first two options combined. Tax and axe as they call it. And that will likely come to Canada too soon enough, albeit not to the same extreme as in the US where it will be particularly painful. But Canada will need some tax and axe too.



Governments are different in that even if they do go bankrupt, unlike companies, they continue to exist or are replaced with a different one. But there are definitely differences between a government and a company.

Two thumbs up. Sound analysis.
 

Machjo

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I really think that the US is just going to hyper-inflate until the dollar collapses. Then the oligarchs can pay back their debts with worthless currency and leave other nations holding the bag for their reckless spending. There doesn't seem to be any desire in Washington to make cuts of any kind. Welcome to the casino economy.

They could do that so as to unload some of the debt onto the lenders, but don't think the US won't suffer too. In fact, from the standpoint of long-term trust, the US is likely to suffer even more if it does that. In the end, probably the best policy would be a responsible tax and axe policy.
 

PoliticalNick

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Mar 8, 2011
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America has been bankrupt since 1931 when they could no longer legitimately produce silver certificates introduced the Fiat Currency system it still has today. Take a look at every bill in your wallet, it is called a 'bank note', a note is a financial instrument related to debt. It has been living on borrowed money form the Central Bank which contrary to popular belief is not owned by America. Every piece of paper money has a debt obligation attached to it that is greater than the value of the note itself. If you were able to gather every american dollar together in one place and return it to the central bank you would not have enough to pay of what is owed to them and you never will.

Let the country go bankrupt and then make a stand against those who would try to take away what is yours.
 

darkbeaver

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But, then who would kick-into the tax kitty to support the 40% pf the population that pay no taxes at all?

Lets do a little math. There is no one in the western world but bankers who pay no tax, gas, booze and cigarettes are all taxed. No millionaire in America would live without the very best tax consultants available, the wealthy pay little or nothing, that is the value of being rich. If you think the wealthy pay for the rest you must be either wealthy or on the ladder. Jesus christ! imagine the wealthy elite paying fair taxes, what part of wonderland do you live in? If you are heard to suggest such a thing at the club you will be gagged and bum rushed out the door into the muck.
THE WEALTHY PAYING TAXES I I I need something to drink RIGHT NOW. twenty three per cent of the former tax payers in the states have no damn jobs now anyway. Where did you ever get the idea that the rich pay taxes? I need drugs right now.
 

Machjo

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There is a much better option. In fact it is the only option. And that is to monetarize its national debt. And use this facility to provide future financing until it can reimpose some equilibrium in tax and spending by reinvigorating its REAL productive economy.

But this will only work if it reestablishes a true national system of political economy. That will require -

- permanent tariffs;

Tariffs do create jobs, but not of the productive variety. And remember the primary purpose of creating employment is to create productive employment, not make-work jobs. Tariffs create the make-work variety of job by forcing companies to become less efficient by having to limit themselves to domestic markets even when foreign markets might be more beneficial for them. This decreased economic deficiency is also likely to promote more inflation, which of course is bound to hurt the most vulnerable segments of society the most.

- a national plan to reestablish an integrated and protected manufacturing base through domestic investment, public and private;

I can neither agree nor disagree with this statement since I like the principle, but you means to do it you leave too open. Some means might be beneficial, others harmful. So, how precisely would you intend to achieve this?

- reestablishment of progressive tax policies, away from regressive, demand destroying, sales taxes;

- sovereign control of currency and credit by nationalizing the Federal Reserve, as a politically responsible organ in producing currency and credit policies in the national interest.

Well, it would seem to make sense that any fiat currency production ought to be under the control of a government, not the private sector. However, seeing how the US' economy is so integrated with that of other countries, certainly sharing a currency with one or more countries could prove mutually beneficial.

The latter one is critical, in establishing a Bank of the United States, and preventing it from acting as quisling for Wall Street and Global trading interests, run by stooges and fools like Alan Greenspan.

In principle I can agree to this last point.

I'd add too that education is an important element too. Provide quality education opportunities for the young and the unemployed and underemployed so as to increase their economic productivity.

In a collapsing economy there is no way the government will be able to cut spending fast enough to compensate for dwindling tax revenue.

It will likely have no reduce spending and raise taxes together.
 

BaalsTears

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Jan 25, 2011
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Where do you start axing?

Cut the Defense budget and food stamps. Obamacare must die. Medicare and Social Security should be means tested. Get rid of foreign aid. We can get rid of Air Force One and replace it with a bus. The fedgov bureaucracy should be slashed, eg. the Education Dept., the Energy Dept., etc. Ask Canadians for foreign aid. Sell the national parks. Convert the national hwy. system into a toll road. Convert govt. employees and retirees from defined benefit pension plans to defined contribution pension plans. Adopt the Canadian dollar as legal tender. Sell the national monuments.
 

petros

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Correction, three options, the third being the first two options combined. Tax and axe as they call it. And that will likely come to Canada too soon enough, albeit not to the same extreme as in the US where it will be particularly painful. But Canada will need some tax and axe too.



Governments are different in that even if they do go bankrupt, unlike companies, they continue to exist or are replaced with a different one. But there are definitely differences between a government and a company.
USofA is a corporation the government is the board of directors who are supposed to run it for the benefit of the people.

Why have elections just hired and fire at will?
 

PoliticalNick

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Mar 8, 2011
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Tax & axe is not a bad iea in theory but there are inherent problems, namely they tax the wrong people and axe the wrong programs.

The biggest economic growth in US history was when there was a 90% tax on the wealthy and social welfare programs were fully funded.

Unfortunately the people in power who write the policies are so beholden to the wealthy and corporations they will axe programs that promote social stability for all and tax the working class into bankruptcy all to benefit the already rich and coprorate sector.
 

BaalsTears

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Jan 25, 2011
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Increasing taxes isn't possible politically because there is no longer any trust in America. If conservatives permit taxes to be raised the American left will simply piss the money away by giving it to their cronies in the UAW, public sector unions, activist groups, General Electric, Duke Energy, etc. The American left can't be trusted on any subject. They can only be treated as one treats a foreign enemy.
 

PoliticalNick

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Mar 8, 2011
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Increasing taxes isn't possible politically because there is no longer any trust in America. If conservatives permit taxes to be raised the American left will simply piss the money away by giving it to their cronies in the UAW, public sector unions, activist groups, General Electric, Duke Energy, etc. The American left can't be trusted on any subject. They can only be treated as one treats a foreign enemy.

And the right will give it to the Rockerfellers and Warren Buffet and their pals so where does that leave you?