U.S. Embassador; "Canada has no claim to Arctic Waters&

[Canucklehead]

RE: U.S. Embassador; "Can

Whether Cons or Libs get this done is irrelevant, noone wants to sink the $$ necessary into the military. Either we pay up and get it done or accept the fact that we are at the mercy of other nations when push comes to shove.

Apologies for overstating the issue there Colpy but all I meant was that we need to let others know in no uncertain terms that we are there and will protect our territory. Do I expect it to happen? ROFL hell no. We couldn't even manage to work out Hans Island, let alone major shipping lanes and other island territory.

 

[muffin girl]

RE: U.S. Embassador; "Can

Once Frank McKenna takes over the government will fal and McKenna will be our new PM.

 

[Canucklehead]

RE: U.S. Embassador; "Can

I disagree with you there Colpy, if the money were sunk into this type of venture with the stated intention of territorial defensive capability then the NDP may actually come around. They are a bit idealistic but Jack isn't completely outta touch. As for the Libs, I reserve judgement until they get a new leader.

 

[Curiosity]

Re: U.S. Embassador; "Canada has no claim to Arctic Wat

What claim is everyone talking about exactly?

I have always believed after a certain distance from land, all waters are international.

I would be pleased to read the ownership documents that Canada is going to protect .... Do they have a name so we can look them up and see where Canada stands on its need to patrol sovreign waters?

A few months ago, I thought Canada had an agreement with the U.S. in exchange for defense missions patrolling the waters in the north would also be included by the U.S. military thus relieving Canada of having to amass a water craft fleet to maintain their defense position.... but then there were articles about subs in Canadian waters... U.S. subs.... and I thought that was part of the patrolling / defense agreement. I remember seeing articles in the news about Canada being upset with foreign subs patrolling their waters.... but that is what the agreement was for .... confusion reigns as usual.

I hope someone can explain what has changed now ... has a new agreement been signed or ???

Has this agreement vanished into the night?

 

[#juan]

Re: U.S. Embassador; "Canada has no claim to Arctic Wat

As far as I know W.C.

there was never such an agreement. An agreement like that would have motivated cat calls from coast to coast to coast.

 

[Colpy]

Re: U.S. Embassador; "Canada has no claim to Arctic Wat

As far as I know W.C.

there was never such an agreement. An agreement like that would have motivated cat calls from coast to coast to coast.

Actually, Canada and the US have a number of mutual defense treaties dating from World War II, and the Arctic is included.

The problem is not that American military vessels are in those waters, it is that we were not informed, and our permission was not asked when they entered those waters.

In other words, they did not recognize our claim.

Our claim is that, because of our ownership of the islands in the Arctic, these waters are internal waterways.

IMHO

 

[Curiosity]

Re: U.S. Embassador; "Canada has no claim to Arctic Wat

Blind from hunting stuff ...

Found one article from December last year...

Globe and Mail Update and Canadian Press
December 22, 2005

WINNIPEG -— Stephen Harper said today a Conservative government would spend $5.3-billion over five years to boost Canada's military presence in the Arctic, including enhanced underwater and aerial surveillance.

The Liberals shot back by saying the plan was too expensive and questioned the need to address any threats in the North.

"The single most important duty of the federal government is to protect and defend our national sovereignty," Harper said at a morning campaign stop in Winnipeg.

"You don't defend national sovereignty with flags, cheap election rhetoric, and advertising campaigns," he said, according to a text of his speech posted on the Conservative party Web site. "You need forces on the ground, ships in the sea, and proper surveillance. And that will be the Conservative approach."

The Tories would establish a national sensor system for northern waters and build three heavy icebreakers capable of carrying troops, Mr. Harper added.

Liberal Defence Minister Bill Graham scoffed the plan as an expensive response to a non-existent military threat in the North.

Mr. Graham said he does not believe the Americans are secretly sending their nuclear-powered submarines through Canadian waters in the Arctic.

As military allies, Canada and the U.S. have a protocol in place by which the Americans notify Ottawa when their subs want to transit Canadian waters, Mr. Graham said in an interview with The Globe's Jeff Sallot. "They would have told us."

Mr. Harper also promised to create a combined military-civilian deepwater docking facility in the Iqaluit region.

At least 500 sailors would operate the icebreakers and the docking station. Mr. Harper estimated the total cost of the icebreakers and the docking facility at $2-billion over eight or nine years.

Mr. Harper's announcement in Winnipeg came after recent reports that at least one U.S. military submarine patrolled the Arctic and likely passed through Canadian waters.

Liberal Leader Paul Martin said it looked like the Conservatives made up their Arctic defence policy only Wednesday in response to speculative news reports that an American submarine secretly traversed the Canadian Northwest Passage.

Mr. Harper is "playing catch up" with existing Liberal government policy that demands prior notification from foreign navies that send ships into Canadian waters, Mr. Martin said Thursday afternoon.

"Guess what? That's the status quo. We've got that agreement with the United States and the other countries. Nobody comes into Canada's waters without notification."
Edit: This is the agreement I am talking about.....

Speaking with reporters in Gatineau, Que., Mr. Martin said the Conservatives haven't done a proper job of costing out their Artic proposal. The underwater listening devices proposed by Mr. Harper are "incredibly expensive."

Mr. Harper pledged today to do more than talk.

"As prime minister, I will make it clear to foreign governments — including the United States — that naval vessels traveling in Canadian territorial waters will require the consent of the government of Canada," said Mr. Harper.

"Only a new Conservative government can provide real action on sovereignty, not just words," he said, according to the prepared text.

Mr. Graham said the Conservatives seem to have cooked up an Arctic defence policy "that will cost $6-billion or $7-billion for a military threat that doesn't exist."

He said the Liberal government recognizes a potential challenge to Canada's sovereignty claims in the North, but said this is different than a military threats.

Besides, the Liberal government has already taken steps to protect northern sovereignty with satellite surveillance, he said.

The Liberal government announced intentions to improve air patrols in the north earlier this year.

The Conservative plan, according to the party website, includes these elements:

-- Station three new armed naval heavy icebreakers, to be made in Canada, in the area of Iqaluit, which will include 500 regular force personnel for crews and support and will be capable of carrying troops.

-- Build a new military/civilian deep-water docking facility in the Iqaluit area.

-- Establish a new Arctic National Sensor System for northern waters, which will include underwater surveillance technologies such as listening posts to monitor foreign submarines and ships.

-- Build a new Arctic army training centre in the area of Cambridge Bay on the Northwest Passage, staffed by an estimated 100 regular force personnel.

-- Station new fixed-wing search-and-rescue aircraft in Yellowknife.

-- Provide eastern and western Arctic air surveillance by stationing new long-range uninhabited aerial vehicle (UAV) squadrons at CFB Goose Bay and CFB Comox to provide continuous Arctic and ocean surveillance and patrol.

-- Revitalize the Canadian Rangers by recruiting up to 500 additional Rangers and increasing their level of training, activity, and equipment.

-- Provide an army emergency response capability for the Arctic through the new airborne battalion and airlift capacity stationed at CFB Trenton.

 

[Curiosity]

Re: U.S. Embassador; "Canada has no claim to Arctic Wat

Thanks Colpy

Had me questioning what little is left of my sanity - I thought I had dreamed up the agreement article I read...I know it's still around...just can't find it.

So.... the land masses where there is "internal water" is not international water right?

The open water after a certain distance from shore off landmass becomes international water right? Whew....

All this started in December when U.S. subs were patrolling and people were complaining about Sovreignty being violated....but were calmed down by the claim there was a protocol involved of information and notication between the two countries. Part of the DOD or one of those agencies which I forget immediately.

 

[#juan]

Re: U.S. Embassador; "Canada has no claim to Arctic Wat

"Guess what? That's the status quo. We've got that agreement with the United States and the other countries. Nobody comes into Canada's waters without notification."

We have no agreement, if the U.S. doesn't recognise our claim to these waters. The embassador has stated quite clearly that they do not. This is a little different than us letting them patrol our waters for us.

 

[Curiosity]

Re: U.S. Embassador; "Canada has no claim to Arctic Wat

Gee Juan

If you say so.

 

[MMMike]

Re: U.S. Embassador; "Canada has no claim to Arctic Wat

Harper brushes off U.S. criticism of Arctic plan
Last Updated Thu, 26 Jan 2006 08:09:54 EST
CBC News
Prime minister-designate Stephen Harper took aim at the American ambassador's criticism of the Conservatives' Arctic sovereignty plan on Thursday, in the party leader's first news conference since winning a minority government.

"The United States defends its sovereignty and the Canadian government will defend our sovereignty," Harper told reporters in Ottawa. "It is the Canadian people we get our mandate from, not the ambassador of the United States."


Prime minister-designate Stephen Harper, Thursday.
A day earlier, David Wilkins, the U.S. ambassador to Canada, said his government opposes Harper's proposed plan to deploy military icebreakers in the Arctic to detect interlopers and assert Canadian sovereignty over those waters.

"There's no reason to create a problem that doesn't exist," Wilkins said as he took part in a forum at the University of Western Ontario in London.

"We don't recognize Canada's claims to those waters... Most other countries do not recognize their claim."

cbc

 

[#juan]

Re: U.S. Embassador; "Canada has no claim to Arctic Wat

That is at least encouraging MMMike. I'm sure the whole country will be watching.

 

[Jay]

RE: U.S. Embassador; "Canada has no claim to Arctic Wat

""The United States defends its sovereignty and the Canadian government will defend our sovereignty," Harper told reporters in Ottawa. "It is the Canadian people we get our mandate from, not the ambassador of the United States." "


Here, here!


Mr. Harper is going to be a great PM....I'm looking forward to the future and a conservative majority under his leadership next time around.

 

[Kellen]

Re: RE: U.S. Embassador; "Canada has no claim to Arctic

""The United States defends its sovereignty and the Canadian government will defend our sovereignty," Harper told reporters in Ottawa. "It is the Canadian people we get our mandate from, not the ambassador of the United States." "


Here, here!


Mr. Harper is going to be a great PM....I'm looking forward to the future and a conservative majority under his leadership next time around.

Heh, I don't know about that, but if Harper really does go through with this I know I will have a lot more respect for him.

 

[The Gunslinger]

RE: U.S. Embassador; "Canada has no claim to Arctic Wat

One of the whole reasons behind this is that the northwest passage is the quickest route between Europe and Asia. If the northwest passage is open it'll get used used even more than the Panama canal. I hope Harper stays the course and keeps going forward with this.

 

[#juan]

Re: U.S. Embassador; "Canada has no claim to Arctic Wat

Embassador Wilkins said:

"There's no reason to create a problem that doesn't exist," Wilkins said as he took part in a forum at the University of Western Ontario in London.

"We don't recognize Canada's claims to those waters... Most other countries do not recognize their claim."

It is funny that those who say we have no claim to those waters seem to forget that thousands of Canadian Inuit live in the area and depend on those waters for their livelihood. Imagine what an impact a super tanker would have if it lost it's cargo of crude. It has already happened to the Exxon Valdez in Alaska. I truly hope Harper does what he said he would do.

Another thing. Why would Canadian icebreakers create a problem? I suspect there is a lot more submarine traffic than we know about.

 

[Curiosity]

Re: U.S. Embassador; "Canada has no claim to Arctic Wat

http://server09.densan.ca/archivenews/060126/npt/060126am.htm

Well gee here's some cooperation between the two nations which doesn't require getting into a twizzle. Can you believe it - Canada and the U.S. working together. Yay NORAD....an historical agreement and a successful one as well. Sorry about that to those who want continued conflict between the two. It isn't gonna happen - not in any sane man's world.

PUBLICATION: National Post
DATE: 2006.01.26
EDITION: All but Toronto
SECTION: Canada
PAGE: A7
BYLINE: Melissa Leong
SOURCE: National Post
ILLUSTRATION: Black & White Photo: Captain J.H. Kirbyson / Canadianfighter jets will help patrol the airspace when the Super Bowl takes place in Detroit on Feb. 5. The game is being guarded by the joint U.S.-Canadian North American Aerospace Defence Command (NORAD).
WORD COUNT: 444

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Canadian jets muster to protect Super Bowl: Part of norad duties: Terrorist attacks simulated for training exercise

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

While Windsor, Ont., residents slept early this morning, U.S. and Canadian fighter jets were scheduled to be roaring overhead, running exercises simulating a terrorist attack on next month's Super Bowl XL.

The exercise, launched by the joint U.S.-Canadian North American Aerospace Defence Command, involved about a dozen aircraft and was held in the Windsor-Detroit area in preparation for the football game, which will be held on Feb. 5 at Detroit's Ford Field.

A CH-146 Griffon helicopter out of Kingston, Ont., simulated low-altitude scenarios while a C-21 Learjet acted as a "target" -- perhaps a hijacked plane -- violating airspace.

"This is air space that is restricted. People can't fly in there. If they do, then they might find themselves escorted out," Major Darren Steele, a spokesman for NORAD, said yesterday.

"If there is an aircraft or a blip that's not on our file flight plan, they can send the aircraft to intercept and identify it."

Fighter jets out of Bagotville, Que., Cessna aircrafts, H-65 helicopters, air refuelling tankers and an E-3 Airborne Early Warning and Control System aircraft for command and control support were also scheduled to take to the skies today.

"[We] run through some scenarios. A lot of this stuff helps us iron out any communication bugs," the Winnipeg native said from NORAD headquarters in Colorado.

Maj. Steele declined to go into further detail about the exercises for security reasons. "[Potential attackers] could think: 'If they're guarding against this, we'll do something else,' " he said.

"The scenarios are designed to exercise all of our aspects of co-ordination and communication. In the scenarios, you try to make it much harder than what we're probably going to face in real life."

He said yesterday that he hoped the early-morning training missions would not disturb any slumbering residents, explaining that they were scheduled for a time that would be least disruptive to commercial traffic.

Several agencies will be co-ordinating security measures during the Super Bowl including the RCMP, Transport Canada, Nav Canada and the FBI. Aircraft will patrol the airspace the day of the event.

"With all the different agencies working, folks can go watch the game and not worry ... because there's going to be a lot of people working very hard to make sure the event is safe," Maj. Steele said.

He said NORAD runs many security exercises annually.

"NORAD flies a number of missions [for] things like the Super Bowl, the G8 Summit in Canada, and down in the States, when they have the State of the Union address, and when we have dignarities flying around the country."

The exercises started after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. Authorities said NORAD fighters have scrambled or diverted from air patrols over the United States and Canada more than 2,000 times to respond to possible air threats since the air attacks on New York and Washington. Both Canada and the United States share the bill for all exercises.

God speed brave warriors - have a great day yourselves and enjoy the game!

 

[unclepercy]

Re: U.S. Embassador; "Canada has no claim to Arctic Wat

http://server09.densan.ca/archivenews/060126/npt/060126am.htm

Well gee here's some cooperation between the two nations which doesn't require getting into a twizzle. Can you believe it - Canada and the U.S. working together. Yay NORAD....an historical agreement and a successful one as well. Sorry about that to those who want continued conflict between the two. It isn't gonna happen - not in any sane man's world.

PUBLICATION: National Post
DATE: 2006.01.26
EDITION: All but Toronto
SECTION: Canada
PAGE: A7
BYLINE: Melissa Leong
SOURCE: National Post
ILLUSTRATION: Black & White Photo: Captain J.H. Kirbyson / Canadianfighter jets will help patrol the airspace when the Super Bowl takes place in Detroit on Feb. 5. The game is being guarded by the joint U.S.-Canadian North American Aerospace Defence Command (NORAD).
WORD COUNT: 444

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Canadian jets muster to protect Super Bowl: Part of norad duties: Terrorist attacks simulated for training exercise

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

While Windsor, Ont., residents slept early this morning, U.S. and Canadian fighter jets were scheduled to be roaring overhead, running exercises simulating a terrorist attack on next month's Super Bowl XL.

The exercise, launched by the joint U.S.-Canadian North American Aerospace Defence Command, involved about a dozen aircraft and was held in the Windsor-Detroit area in preparation for the football game, which will be held on Feb. 5 at Detroit's Ford Field.

A CH-146 Griffon helicopter out of Kingston, Ont., simulated low-altitude scenarios while a C-21 Learjet acted as a "target" -- perhaps a hijacked plane -- violating airspace.

"This is air space that is restricted. People can't fly in there. If they do, then they might find themselves escorted out," Major Darren Steele, a spokesman for NORAD, said yesterday.

"If there is an aircraft or a blip that's not on our file flight plan, they can send the aircraft to intercept and identify it."

Fighter jets out of Bagotville, Que., Cessna aircrafts, H-65 helicopters, air refuelling tankers and an E-3 Airborne Early Warning and Control System aircraft for command and control support were also scheduled to take to the skies today.

"[We] run through some scenarios. A lot of this stuff helps us iron out any communication bugs," the Winnipeg native said from NORAD headquarters in Colorado.

Maj. Steele declined to go into further detail about the exercises for security reasons. "[Potential attackers] could think: 'If they're guarding against this, we'll do something else,' " he said.

"The scenarios are designed to exercise all of our aspects of co-ordination and communication. In the scenarios, you try to make it much harder than what we're probably going to face in real life."

He said yesterday that he hoped the early-morning training missions would not disturb any slumbering residents, explaining that they were scheduled for a time that would be least disruptive to commercial traffic.

Several agencies will be co-ordinating security measures during the Super Bowl including the RCMP, Transport Canada, Nav Canada and the FBI. Aircraft will patrol the airspace the day of the event.

"With all the different agencies working, folks can go watch the game and not worry ... because there's going to be a lot of people working very hard to make sure the event is safe," Maj. Steele said.

He said NORAD runs many security exercises annually.

"NORAD flies a number of missions [for] things like the Super Bowl, the G8 Summit in Canada, and down in the States, when they have the State of the Union address, and when we have dignarities flying around the country."

The exercises started after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. Authorities said NORAD fighters have scrambled or diverted from air patrols over the United States and Canada more than 2,000 times to respond to possible air threats since the air attacks on New York and Washington. Both Canada and the United States share the bill for all exercises.

God speed brave warriors - have a great day yourselves and enjoy the game!

Thank you for bringing a note of common sense to all of this. Canada is a civilized, well-ordered nation, and there is no reason for the US to even think, "Let's whoop 'em." That's so silly.
What are you protecting in the Artic, Santa Claus? Remember, we have a vested interest in the Artic, named Alaska.

It is in both of our best interests to stay friendly and to work together to protect our continent. Mexico hasn't done much to help. So, it's you and us - that's it. Appreciate the cooperation.

Uncle

 

[Hank C]

Re: U.S. Embassador; "Canada has no claim to Arctic Wat

http://start.shaw.ca/start/enCA/News/NationalNewsArticle.htm?&src=n012639A.xml

Harper tells U.S. to butt out when it comes to Canada's Arctic
OTTAWA (CP) - Stephen Harper used his first news conference as prime minister-designate Thursday to warn the United States to mind its own business when it comes to Canada's Arctic.

The Conservative leader said he'll stick to his campaign promise to bolster Canada's military presence in the North and build big new military icebreakers. He was responding to comments Wednesday by U.S. Ambassador David Wilkins, who criticized the plans, claiming the Arctic passage as "neutral waters."

Harper said Canada will do what it wants in its territory.

"The United States defends its sovereignty; the Canadian government will defend our sovereignty," he said.

"It is the Canadian people that we get our mandate from, not the ambassador of the United States."

Harper has promised to mend strained relations with the U.S., while standing firm for Canadian interests.

Arctic sovereignty has been a sensitive subject for decades, with American submarines and even ships entering northern waters without asking permission.

It was reported last month that a U.S. submarine travelled secretly through Canadian Arctic waters in November on its way to the North Pole.


©The Canadian Press, 2006

 

[Martin Le Acadien]

Re: U.S. Embassador; "Canada has no claim to Arctic Wat

With comments like that from the U.S ambassador i wonder if a policy similar to that would be necessary to assert Canadian control.

Maybe not blow it to sky-high, but board vessels or fire warning shots.

I wonder why the US would make a fuss about Artic Soveriegnty, We have Alaska, and could probably get permission to cross the Canadian artic Areas if we asked REAL NICE. Why are those Washington types soooo difficult about stuff that has little bearing at present and is an if, if the NorthWest Passage was ever Navigable.

Sorry, Mum never taught the southern Colonials any manners.