U.S. border talks raise privacy concern

mentalfloss

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Jun 28, 2010
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Canada-U.S. border talks raise privacy concern

Privacy and information sharing are a concern for Canadians who wrote to the government about border talks with the U.S., according to a report released by Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird Monday. Canada and the U.S. are in negotiations over ways to integrate border security and ease trade access, though many of the details aren’t public yet.

Two reports released Monday summarize public consultations on the perimeter security talks. One is on implementing the agreement and the other on aligning regulations between the two countries.

Business and trade groups were concerned about streamlining and speeding up approval for goods and wanted to align screening procedures for travellers between the two countries, the perimeter agreement report says They also want expanded pre-clearance programs.

Individual Canadians were more concerned about maintaining privacy rights. The report says they voiced concerns about information sharing with the U.S. government.

The report notes the government got detailed submissions from the Canadian Civil Liberties Association and Canada's privacy commissioner, Jennifer Stoddart, on information sharing and integrated law enforcement with the U.S.

Baird says Canadian sovereignty cannot and will not be compromised in the talks. "These ideas and concerns have been front and centre in our thinking as we are pursuing talks with our American counterparts," he said. "If we want to ensure cross-border law enforcement activities and other programs, they have to respect the legal and the privacy rights of Canadians. That is incredibly important. I think it’s important to all of us across the political spectrum."

U.S. Secretary of Homeland Security Janet Napolitano met with Public Safety Minister Vic Toews earlier this month to discuss the agreement.

The talks focused in part on privacy issues and the role each country's privacy commissioners would play in making sure they share information in an appropriate way, Toews said at the time.

The meeting also looked at the next generation of joint operations, Napolitano said, pointing to the example of putting law enforcement officials on each other's ships. "Obviously these are areas that require a bit of fleshing out, but are evidence of our mutual intent that this border not be thickened, but that it be made more efficient," she said.

They also announced an upcoming meeting between Prime Minister Stephen Harper and U.S. President Barack Obama this fall. No specific date was announced.


Canada-U.S. border talks raise privacy concern
 

DaSleeper

Trolling Hypocrites
May 27, 2007
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You should be more concerned about the amount of information our own government has on u.

I sometimes wonder why they ask for so much information when you apply for your passport. When you can call Canada revenue at any time and with just your social insurance number in their computer, they can tell who you worked for and how much money and tax you paid in your livetime....or you call the provincial government and they have your medical history at their fingertips...
That questionaire you fill out is rather silly...

Passeport lettre au premier ministre - YouTube
 

IdRatherBeSkiing

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May 28, 2007
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I sometimes wonder why they ask for so much information when you apply for your passport. When you can call Canada revenue at any time and with just your social insurance number in their computer, they can tell who you worked for and how much money and tax you paid in your livetime....or you call the provincial government and they have your medical history at their fingertips...
That questionaire you fill out is rather silly...

In theory, the government cannot share this information even between departments. RC has this info and cannot give it to immigration (presumably without a warrant). I suspect it probably doesn't get shared that much only because of buracracy and laziness of civil servants more rather than ethical high grounds.
 

damngrumpy

Executive Branch Member
Mar 16, 2005
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The problem is when it comes to security everything goes out the window. I wouldn't mind if most
of it were genuine but the governments of the day perceive anyone or anything a threat if their
shadow looks wrong. That is why I am concerned in some cases because many time security
issues are acted upon for silly reasons or suspicions rather than matters of fact.
An open society is not supposed to work that way. On the other hand the only hope we have of
maintaining an open society is by using tight security to keep the radicals, crazies and other
undesirables from entering our country with intentions of doing the nation and its citizens harm.
The big question is where do we draw the line, and sometimes that line is blurred without Merritt.
 

The Old Medic

Council Member
May 16, 2010
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Canada receives, and utilizes, extensive information about all US Citizens entering into Canada. They can quickly check, by social security number, if a person has any criminal convictions (including DUI's), and bar them from entry. They can, and do, bar people that had minor misdemeanor convictions 30-40 years ago. A close friend was refused entry into Canada in 2009, because of a Driving Under the Influence Conviction in 1961! That was his ONLY offense, ever.

What is sauce for the Goose, is good for the Gander. If Canada is going to utilize such information, then the US is certainly entitled to utilize exactly the same kinds of information.

Of course in my case, I could be a serial murderer, have molested 10 million children and been convicted of running in tons of heroin, and Canada could not keep me out. You see, I am a DUAL Citizen, and Canada can not reject any of its own people. And, Canada could not put any restrictions on me either, since I have no convictions in Canada

The same would be true of a person with Dual Citizenship that wished to come to the USA. They could have a thousand convictions in Canada, for ANYTHING, and they could not be prevented from entry into the USA, nor could any sanction be imposed upon them, if they had no convictions in the USA.

That is just one of the many absurdities that this kind of "information sharing" leaves hanging.
 

Durry

House Member
May 18, 2010
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Canada border service does not do a good job of checking people coming into Canada.
Last year (?) a teenage couple, she was 14 I believe, got into Canada with guns. They were escaping their parents to be together and he was a hunter so he also brought his guns with him.. Some check.eh!!
Also there have been many US wanted men who seem to get into this country quite easily..
 

EagleSmack

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Feb 16, 2005
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Question... Americans can hunt in Canada and bring their own guns. I know because I have a friend that has hunted up there. He said at the border the Canadian border guard asked them if they had handguns. They didn't and she let them pass on.

Can Americans only take rifles into Canada and not handguns?
 

IdRatherBeSkiing

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May 28, 2007
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Question... Americans can hunt in Canada and bring their own guns. I know because I have a friend that has hunted up there. He said at the border the Canadian border guard asked them if they had handguns. They didn't and she let them pass on.

Can Americans only take rifles into Canada and not handguns?


BSF5044 - Importing a Firearm or Weapon Into Canada

If you have them legally I believe as long as you declare them, and follow Canadian pertenant laws, you are allowed. Thats what I get from this site anyways.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
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BSF5044 - Importing a Firearm or Weapon Into Canada

If you have them legally I believe as long as you declare them, and follow Canadian pertenant laws, you are allowed. Thats what I get from this site anyways.

So if they did have them and they were registered they would have been OK. She was just making sure. It was sort of a funny story. The Canadian Border Patrol asked them for the gun licenses when they told her they were hunting. Then she asked...

"Are you guys carrying handguns?"

"No Ma'am"

"Are you sure? I know you Americans like your handguns."

"No Ma'am we aren't carrying handguns."

lol
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
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Of course in my case, I could be a serial murderer, have molested 10 million children and been convicted of running in tons of heroin, and Canada could not keep me out. You see, I am a DUAL Citizen, and Canada can not reject any of its own people. And, Canada could not put any restrictions on me either, since I have no convictions in Canada
So you're one of those loser citizens of convenience types eh. Not that surprising.

Good thing we have an extradition treaty with the US.

That is just one of the many absurdities that this kind of "information sharing" leaves hanging.
The only absurdity is, anyone that actually believes what you just said was true.

Can Americans only take rifles into Canada and not handguns?
Yes, as Ski pointed out.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
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Question... Americans can hunt in Canada and bring their own guns. I know because I have a friend that has hunted up there. He said at the border the Canadian border guard asked them if they had handguns. They didn't and she let them pass on.

Can Americans only take rifles into Canada and not handguns?


Handguns? I have no idea, but I seriously doubt they're welcome up here. Ask Colpy.

As far as American hunters (& anglers) coming to Canada....yep! They're thick on the
ground here in Saskatchewan. I know Ted Nugent is up here hunting at least twice
each year. He's buddies with a radio personality in Saskatchewan, and does interviews
most times he comes up to hunt.

I found a LINK (Wildlife Federation - 11,000 American hunters visit Saskatchewan every year) that
claims that 11,000 Americans come to Saskatchewan annually just for the migratory
and game bird hunting alone.

Here's an example of just one outfitter's photo section, & this is within 1/2 of shopping
malls & McDonalds fast food, etc.... http://redmantrophybiggamehunts.com/gallery/ as
to some of the reasons Americans come north to Canada to hunt & fish.
 
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petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Question... Americans can hunt in Canada and bring their own guns. I know because I have a friend that has hunted up there. He said at the border the Canadian border guard asked them if they had handguns. They didn't and she let them pass on.

Can Americans only take rifles into Canada and not handguns?
Yes!


It is possible to enter Canada withordinary long guns without a license, provided that you have the propernon-resident paperwork and pay the appropriate fees.
It is possible for non-residents to get a Canadian firearms license and register any firearms you wish to bring into Canada, thus waiving the non-resident paperwork and fees.


ALL handguns are either prohibited orrestricted in Canada.
It is possible to enter Canada with restricted handguns, including to transport between Alaska and the Lower 48, provided that you have the proper license, registration certificate, and transport authorization paperwork.
It requires a lot of work and time (a minimum of several months for the first time) to obtain the license, registration, and paperwork approvals; but itis possible. People do it, myself included. Do not attempt to enter Canada with a restricted handgun unless you have these documents in your possession. They won't issue them at the border.

Many years ago, Canadian Customs would sometimes allow visitors with handguns to enter Canada with the handguns sealed in the case with Customs tape until the visitor exited Canada. This practice was never legal in Canada, and is now specifically prohibited by Canadian firearms law. Don't expect it. It's a quaint memory of the past now.

As always, direct information from the Canadian government is available from the Canadian Firearms Center (CFC) web page.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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Leaked cable lays out Canadian, U.S. border concerns

OTTAWA — We want it open. They want it secure.

That's the essential conclusion about Canadian and American perceptions of our shared border contained in a leaked diplomatic cable posted to the website WikiLeaks. "For Canada, the number one priority is the free flow of people and goods in both directions. For America, the top priority is security," reads the cable, signed by former U.S. ambassador David Wilkins.

"Canadians see the border as something to be kept as invisible as possible. Post 9/11, Americans see the border as a last line of defense, the final place to check people or things coming into the country."

Making both countries happy, the cable said, was not going to be easy, but some simple recommendations — such as better intelligence-sharing and putting more staff at border crossings — could appease both countries, the cable said. "The sense we got from the ground was that the security threat is real but manageable without resorting to draconian, disruptive procedures," the cable said.

Managing the border, the cable said, was the top issue for the embassy simply because of its important role in the relationship between Canada and the U.S. "It is a border at a crossroads, still in transition, moving away from the pre-9/11 optimism of open borders, with increasing volumes of just-in-time deliveries and communities connected by junior hockey and shopping, towards the concept outlined 5 years ago of a 'smart border,' " the cable said.

The three-part cable from December 2007 was the result of a yearlong study that involved diplomatic staff visiting every border crossing and speaking with those on the ground, in communities and at various border security agencies, according to the cable.

American officials at the U.S. Embassy in Ottawa recommended that the U.S. better manage its border infrastructure improvements, similar to the centralized management style in Canada. It was also incumbent on American officials to quickly share information about new security measures with the Canadian public.

The officials also recommended that the Canadian side needed to better share intelligence information so both sides could properly police the border. "We currently share threat information, but often do not share the kind of background that would allow the other side to develop a full threat picture," the cable said.

"Our law enforcement efforts on both sides of the border would benefit from a mechanism that would help us to get beyond the fallout from the (Maher) Arar affair and engage in a free and continuous exchange of information on the entire range of cross-border law enforcement and counter-terrorism issues."

Arar, a Canadian citizen who was born in Syria, was detained by the U.S. over alleged links to al-Qaida while returning to Canada in 2002. He was then deported to Syria, where he claims to have been tortured during his incarceration.

He was returned to Canada over a year later and cleared of all terrorism allegations by an inquiry in 2006.


Leaked cable lays out Canadian, U.S. border concerns
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
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SO if you are all that concerned about your privacy don't go to the US. We can fly right from Comox to Porta Viarta non stop so no worries.