Trans Mountain ‘pipeline is going to get built’: Trudeau dismisses B.C.’s bitumen ban

[petros]

The first promise (not counting the "could be up to one billion dollars" revenue-sharing agreement - was Kinder Morgan Canada's $6.8-billion project will protect B.C. from potential environmental damage with world-leading spill prevention and response measures.

Trudeau's 3 person panel made its rounds and those who showed up left happy.

 

[Murphy]

Hoid thinks the world is full of unicorns and rainbows!

The plan is to experiment in BC. The federal government - the Liberals actually - have determined that the least environmental impact will happen if an accident happens in BC. That's why the pipeline is a go. Hey, you can't make this up! I got my information from the same source that Flossy/Hoid gets his info from. Obviously, I cannot be wrong or lying!

Common sense tells us that it's a good idea to keep potential failures away from here.

 

[OpposingDigit]

This is a huge problem ....

Canada signed up and agreed to the terms outlined within the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.

The UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples requires states to obtain free and informed consent prior to approving projects like natural resources extraction on Indigenous land or territories.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/romeo-saganash-un-declaration-indigenous-rights-1.4432858

Also ....

The Supreme Court of Canada (SCC) ruling, extending the scope of Indigenous rights to include the right to permanently control “land conferred by aboriginal title”, has the potential to transform the politics of resource extraction and development in Canada.
Governments and companies seeking to use land (say, for resource development and infrastructure) to which an Indigenous group has title will now require the consent of the Indigenous groups involved. Indeed, the court found that where Indigenous title exists, it is exclusive: in other words, the Indigenous groups in question have the exclusive authority (with some important exceptions) to determine who can use and benefit from the land – and the resources on that land.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...le-rights-in-unanimous-ruling/article19347252

 

[Twin_Moose]

This is a huge problem ....

Canada signed up and agreed to the terms outlined within the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.

The UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples requires states to obtain free and informed consent prior to approving projects like natural resources extraction on Indigenous land or territories.

And they did get the required permission from the First Canadians directly impacted from this project

This is a huge problem ....

Canada signed up and agreed to the terms outlined within the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.

The UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples requires states to obtain free and informed consent prior to approving projects like natural resources extraction on Indigenous land or territories.
NDP bill adopting UN Indigenous declaration begins debate with Liberal support - Politics - CBC News

Also ....

The Supreme Court of Canada (SCC) ruling, extending the scope of Indigenous rights to include the right to permanently control “land conferred by aboriginal title”, has the potential to transform the politics of resource extraction and development in Canada.
Governments and companies seeking to use land (say, for resource development and infrastructure) to which an Indigenous group has title will now require the consent of the Indigenous groups involved. Indeed, the court found that where Indigenous title exists, it is exclusive: in other words, the Indigenous groups in question have the exclusive authority (with some important exceptions) to determine who can use and benefit from the land – and the resources on that land.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...le-rights-in-unanimous-ruling/article19347252

And on your 2nd part yes it is recognized that is why construction always avoids crossing on directly owned First Nation lands, unless set up in partnership/cooperation with the affected First Nation

 

[petros]

This is a huge problem ....

Canada signed up and agreed to the terms outlined within the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.

The UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples requires states to obtain free and informed consent prior to approving projects like natural resources extraction on Indigenous land or territories.
NDP bill adopting UN Indigenous declaration begins debate with Liberal support - Politics - CBC News

Also ....

The Supreme Court of Canada (SCC) ruling, extending the scope of Indigenous rights to include the right to permanently control “land conferred by aboriginal title”, has the potential to transform the politics of resource extraction and development in Canada.
Governments and companies seeking to use land (say, for resource development and infrastructure) to which an Indigenous group has title will now require the consent of the Indigenous groups involved. Indeed, the court found that where Indigenous title exists, it is exclusive: in other words, the Indigenous groups in question have the exclusive authority (with some important exceptions) to determine who can use and benefit from the land – and the resources on that land.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...le-rights-in-unanimous-ruling/article19347252

Who did you vote for as your UN representative?

 

[OpposingDigit]

Hi! Twin Moose

I am not familiar with any agreement reached with First Nations.
I would really appreciate your giving me a link where I can learn about it.

 

[Twin_Moose]

Hi! Twin Moose

I am not familiar with any agreement reached with First Nations.
I would really appreciate your giving me a link where I can learn about it.

Why nine Island First Nations signed Trans Mountain deals

Trans Mountain expansion: The First Nations factor

There are 133 First Nations living along or near the Trans Mountain pipeline corridor in Alberta and B.C., 40 of which have granted their support for the project and signed benefits agreements.
“We have the vast majority of the right-of-way communities impacted by this project supporting it,” Kinder Morgan Canada president Ian Anderson recently told the Greater Vancouver Board of Trade. “We have far more support in aboriginal communities than we have opposition.”

All First Nations crossed by Trans Mountain pipeline route in support of project: Kinder Morgan

Since federal approval was granted in late November, twelve new Aboriginal communities have affirmed their support for the proposed Trans Mountain Pipeline expansion, says Kinder Morgan Canada.
There are now 51 Aboriginal communities that have signed mutual benefit agreements with the project valued at more than $400 million.
This includes all of the First Nations whose reserves the pipeline crosses and about 80 percent of communities within proximity to the pipeline right-of-way, the company says. The 51 agreements include 10 in Alberta and 41 in B.C.
Kinder Morgan Canada president Ian Anderson said in a statement that the company has "worked very hard to establish a relationship built on respect, trust and openness."

Google is your friend

 

[OpposingDigit]

Hi! Twin Moose

I am only meaning to have a discussion with you .... not an argument ....

If your numbers are correct, there are 133 signatures required and only 80 have done so.

Thus; It can hardly be claimed that consent has been agreed to by First Nations Peoples.

I could be wrong, because I am not a lawyer.

Don't all FN Peoples need to agree?

And ..... are you a twin? The reason I ask is because I am an identical twin.

 

[petros]

Hello...Avro...how...are...you?

 

[Twin_Moose]

I am only meaning to have a discussion with you .... not an argument ....

If your numbers are correct, there are 133 signatures required and only 80 have done so.

Thus; It can hardly be claimed that consent has been agreed to by First Nations Peoples.

I could be wrong, because I am not a lawyer.

I put the article kinda in order the last one explains your answer pretty much

All First Nations crossed by Trans Mountain pipeline route in support of project: Kinder Morgan

Since federal approval was granted in late November, twelve new Aboriginal communities have affirmed their support for the proposed Trans Mountain Pipeline expansion, says Kinder Morgan Canada.
There are now 51 Aboriginal communities that have signed mutual benefit agreements with the project valued at more than $400 million.
This includes all of the First Nations whose reserves the pipeline crosses and about 80 percent of communities within proximity to the pipeline right-of-way, the company says. The 51 agreements include 10 in Alberta and 41 in B.C.
Kinder Morgan Canada president Ian Anderson said in a statement that the company has "worked very hard to establish a relationship built on respect, trust and openness."

And from what I know in the provinces that signed treaties (all of which except B.C.) all Native reserves within an 80 km distance of the proposed construction must be consulted with, usually means a compensation/labour agreement being made. All landowners on the route must have a signed deal in place before the project can proceed, difficult land owners on a new route usually gets re-routed out. On previous easements the land can be expropriated to build the pipeline in the easement if it is for the best of all concerned.

Now in B.C. since no treaties exist all bands technically have the right to said land, but on the pipeline proposal an impact study is done and in it they recognize who has direct, indirect, trace, and no claim to said land. So they must strike a deal with direct, and indirect up to 80km, consult and respond to all other claims. I read in the articles that the burden of compensation and consultation have been met and possibly surpassed by Fed. Gov. standards

Twin Moose is a name of a creek not to far from where I live

 

[petros]

Twin Moose is a name of a creek not to far from where I live

Sounds like a CanAm motorcycle model.

 

[Twin_Moose]

Sounds like a CanAm motorcycle model.

Lol you probably crossed it if you drove North on the Little Swan road

 

[petros]

I know the area well. I've spent a few months around Rockford.

 

[Hoid]

This is a huge problem ....

Canada signed up and agreed to the terms outlined within the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.

The UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples requires states to obtain free and informed consent prior to approving projects like natural resources extraction on Indigenous land or territories.
NDP bill adopting UN Indigenous declaration begins debate with Liberal support - Politics - CBC News

Also ....

The Supreme Court of Canada (SCC) ruling, extending the scope of Indigenous rights to include the right to permanently control “land conferred by aboriginal title”, has the potential to transform the politics of resource extraction and development in Canada.
Governments and companies seeking to use land (say, for resource development and infrastructure) to which an Indigenous group has title will now require the consent of the Indigenous groups involved. Indeed, the court found that where Indigenous title exists, it is exclusive: in other words, the Indigenous groups in question have the exclusive authority (with some important exceptions) to determine who can use and benefit from the land – and the resources on that land.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...le-rights-in-unanimous-ruling/article19347252

indeed the theory that the federal and provincial governments are the only two who must approve this project is simply false.

 

[Murphy]

Sorry, but you're wrong again. As usual. Don't you get tired of constantly showing off your stupid?

Carry on, Flossy.

 

[Twin_Moose]

indeed the theory that the federal and provincial governments are the only two who must approve this project is simply false.

In the end yes they are for NEB projects and just Provincial on non NEB projects

 

[Hoid]

I put the article kinda in order the last one explains your answer pretty much

All First Nations crossed by Trans Mountain pipeline route in support of project: Kinder Morgan

Since federal approval was granted in late November, twelve new Aboriginal communities have affirmed their support for the proposed Trans Mountain Pipeline expansion, says Kinder Morgan Canada.
There are now 51 Aboriginal communities that have signed mutual benefit agreements with the project valued at more than $400 million.
This includes all of the First Nations whose reserves the pipeline crosses and about 80 percent of communities within proximity to the pipeline right-of-way, the company says. The 51 agreements include 10 in Alberta and 41 in B.C.
Kinder Morgan Canada president Ian Anderson said in a statement that the company has "worked very hard to establish a relationship built on respect, trust and openness."

And from what I know in the provinces that signed treaties (all of which except B.C.) all Native reserves within an 80 km distance of the proposed construction must be consulted with, usually means a compensation/labour agreement being made. All landowners on the route must have a signed deal in place before the project can proceed, difficult land owners on a new route usually gets re-routed out. On previous easements the land can be expropriated to build the pipeline in the easement if it is for the best of all concerned.

Now in B.C. since no treaties exist all bands technically have the right to said land, but on the pipeline proposal an impact study is done and in it they recognize who has direct, indirect, trace, and no claim to said land. So they must strike a deal with direct, and indirect up to 80km, consult and respond to all other claims. I read in the articles that the burden of compensation and consultation have been met and possibly surpassed by Fed. Gov. standards

Twin Moose is a name of a creek not to far from where I live

There are many nations that have pelagic rights.

Since it is the fishery at large that will be hurt anyone with an interest in that fishery needs to have some sort of input.

 

[Twin_Moose]

There are many nations that have pelagic rights.

Since it is the fishery at large that will be hurt anyone with an interest in that fishery needs to have some sort of input.

And they did during the consultation and approval process

 

[Hoid]

and since it is the fishery that will be hurt there has to be some sort of scientific evidence that there can even be an effective spill response and clean up.

these vague promises from known liars (Kinder Morgan and all governments involved including First Nations) is simply not good enough here.

You want to ship bitumen have the common ****ing sense to do the due diligence.

It would not surprise me in the least to find out that Kinder Morgan has done studies and already knows damn well it cannot be cleaned up.

And they did during the consultation and approval process

who did? all first nations?

 

[Murphy]

And you live there...