Tories To Waste Billons On New Fighter Jets

[#juan]

I think the Gliberals would love to get their goofy little mitts on these (besides 4 billion rolls of duct tape):

YouTube - Worlds Largest Aircraft Graveyard- Arizona

lmao

Anna. You blame the Liberals for everything but you never talk about Mulroney's debt that your grand kids will still be paying for.
A number of Conservative governments, like Diefenbaker's for instance, have done stupid things that have changed the direction of this country and made us poorer.

 

[#juan]

I'm surprised no one has pointed out that a CF18, the aging plane that is being replaced, crashed yesterday in Alberta. Perhaps you naysayers want to wait until there are no more and then question why they weren't replaced earlier??

Here is a video of the CF-18 that crashed. In my estimation the crash was due to pilot error:

Exclusive Video: CF-18 jet crash

 

[Machjo]

Here is a video of the CF-18 that crashed. In my estimation the crash was due to pilot error:

Exclusive Video: CF-18 jet crash

How can you tell that from looking at that video. even if the issue is with plane angle or anything else of the sort, how can you know for sure that the plane was fully under the pilots control and not unresponsive in part or in full owing to some mechanical problem? There's way too little information in the video to make a certain conclusion.

 

[#juan]

How can you tell that from looking at that video. even if the issue is with plane angle or anything else of the sort, how can you know for sure that the plane was fully under the pilots control and not unresponsive in part or in full owing to some mechanical problem? There's way too little information in the video to make a certain conclusion.

Two things Machjo.

For one, I was a jet pilot myself albeit on aircraft a generation older than the CF-18. Two, almost since the CF-18 was first delivered, demo pilots have been doing a thing called the "high alpha pass". In the high alpha pass the pilots would balance the aircraft's nose high attitude with the throttles to make this nose high pass right around the airdrome. Too much throttle and the aircraft would climb out and leave the area. Too little throttle and the aircraft would slide back and fall off one wing or the other because it didn't have enough air speed to allow the pilot to control the aircraft normally, Since the pilot didn't report any engine failure and no engine failure was evident; Engine failure is usually marked by a puff of smoke at least. My opinion is that the pilot let his power settings get too low and the aircraft stalled into the ground. I could be wrong but that is what it looked like

 

[Risus]

Here is a video of the CF-18 that crashed. In my estimation the crash was due to pilot error:

Exclusive Video: CF-18 jet crash

Wrong. Not pilot error. There is one video of flames coming from one of the engines prior to the pilots ejection. An eye witness has also confirmed it.

 

[#juan]

Wrong. Not pilot error. There is one video of flames coming from one of the engines prior to the pilots ejection. An eye witness has also confirmed it.

I would think the first thing a pilot would do at the first sign of trouble at that altitude, attitude, and speed would be to firewall both throttles. With almost no forward speed, compressor stall could very well cause a bit of flame to exit the tail pipe. In any case, the aircraft was in fatal trouble quite a few seconds before the pilot ejected.

 

[petros]

I would think the first thing a pilot would do at the first sign of trouble at that altitude, attitude, and speed would be to firewall both throttles. With almost no forward speed, compressor stall could very well cause a bit of flame to exit the tail pipe. In any case, the aircraft was in fatal trouble quite a few seconds before the pilot ejected.

A witness says he heard "pop pop pop and sparks came out of one engine".

.

 

[#juan]

A witness says he heard "pop pop pop and sparks came out of one engine".

.

Interesting. Compressor Stall During Vertical Recovery

 

[lone wolf]

...a difficult thing to do at near deck. The only alternative is the Martin-Baker exit strategy.

 

[#juan]

...a difficult thing to do at near deck. The only alternative is the Martin-Baker exit strategy.

Yes, I think Mr. Martin and Mr. Baker saved that pilot's a$$ with about a second and a half to spare. There was definitely no time to go through any check list...

 

[Risus]

In any case, the aircraft was in fatal trouble quite a few seconds before the pilot ejected.

And since you are an expert on these matters, on what do you base this statement?

 

[lone wolf]

About 18 seconds in the plane sideslips right. About 20 it sounds like power is applied. The plane yaws right. My guess would be he lost his right engine.

 

[#juan]

And since you are an expert on these matters, on what do you base this statement?

The aircraft was going into a nose high attitude and losing speed. I think he jammed the throttles forward. It looks like there was compressor stall. He was getting, according to witnesses, popping and banging noises and flame from the tailpipes. The aircraft was in a classic stall and side-slipped into the ground. The pilot had only just enough time to eject and survive

 

[MapleOne]

With the melting ice in the arctic we are going to need more battleships and fighter planes to hold on to our sovereign territory. The mineral rights alone are worth enough to buy fleets and fleets of jets. Russia is far to eager to go planting flags and claim arctic land as their own.

THIS JUST IN TODAY - IT WAS MY POINT FOR MAKING THE ABOVE COMMENT.

Friday, July 30, 2010 12:10 PM
Russian jet confrontation a 'close one,'
Defence official says

Daniel Leblanc
Canada and Russia engaged in a war of words Friday over this week’s confrontation between two Canadian CF-18 fighter jets and two Russian bombers.
National Defence officials said the fact that two Russian TU-95 Bears flew into Canada’s “area of interest” – about 250 nautical miles, or 460 kilometres, away from Goose Bay, Nfld. – constituted a “close one.” The incoming Russian planes were spotted by NORAD on Wednesday, and two Canadian fighter jets were dispatched from the air force base in Bagotville, Que., to meet them.
"This incident demonstrates why it is vitally important for the Canadian Armed Forces to have the best technology and equipment available. This is true whether we are asserting our Arctic sovereignty, fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan or aiding reconstruction efforts in Haiti," the Conservative Party said in talking points on the incident released Friday.
The Russian replied that the flight was simply a training exercise that didn’t enter Canadian territory, which is defined as a 200-nautical-mile zone beyond the coast.
“We haven’t violated Canadian airspace,” an official at Russia’s embassy in Ottawa told The Globe. “There is no problem here.”
The Liberals said the government reacted appropriately to the Russian activity, given the country’s attempts to lay claims to territories in the Arctic.
But Liberal MP Marc Garneau said that such flights “have been going on since the start of the Cold War,” and that the Conservative government seems to be using the incident to justify its plans to buy new F-35 fighter jets at a total cost of about $16-billion.

 

[petros]

There is only one way to test a nations air defence and willingness to utilize it. We just don't hear about NorCom doing the samething to Russia to test their reaction times and methods of defense.

I'm not exactly sure why people bitch about the new planes when we've already spent far more money reaching the proverbial "high ground" in space.

Without the high ground of space those CF-35s are useless and same goes for the CF-18

 

[EagleSmack]

The aircraft was going into a nose high attitude and losing speed. I think he jammed the throttles forward. It looks like there was compressor stall. He was getting, according to witnesses, popping and banging noises and flame from the tailpipes. The aircraft was in a classic stall and side-slipped into the ground. The pilot had only just enough time to eject and survive

This is one reason why it is so cool to have a former jet pilot as a forum member. I love getting the real stuff instead of...

"Looks like he lost control."

Thanks Juan

 

[petros]

 

[EagleSmack]

Just to sort of ease back to the topic. Those 65 F-35s are going to cost, with maintenance factored
in, about 17 billion dollars. That is roughly twenty five dollars a year, factored over twenty years for every man, woman, and child in Canada. The big problem is that it is still too few aircraft. Just to patrol our borders we need three times that many. Granted,
we don't need hundred and fifty million dollar aircraft for every job, but we do need some kind of aircraft to do it.

If you just want to patrol your borders you could use your old P-3 Orions. Defending borders is another story.

 

[petros]

If you just want to patrol your borders you could use your old P-3 Orions. Defending borders is another story.

We already use the Predator B to do border patrols thanks to the "high ground of space" and Space Com.

 

[El Barto]

What I find extremely convieniant is the timing of this news report.
What is not said was this happens several times a year and we don't hear a peep about it.
Wonder who's pulling the strings behind the release of this one?