"The west wants out": Separatist sentiments growing in Alberta

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
34,611
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Vancouver Island
When I was working for the government, you could always tell by the schedule for bilateral conferences:
Ottawa - summer, bosses - winter, staff.
Mexico City - summer, staff - winter, bosses.
Many of our politicians and senior staff like to have important meetings in the country they were born in when the weather is crappy here.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
15,824
1,236
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Regina, Saskatchewan
I'm posting the below link not because I'm in favour of separation, but I'm opposed to the shit attitude displayed by some with respect to the sentiment of alienation in Western Canada as to it's reality or not. It's real, & someone doesn't have to be a traitor to recognize it as being real.

http://nationalpost.com/opinion/her...n-independent-alberta-and-the-numbers-show-it

Alberta’s demand for a “fair deal” in Confederation is not taken as a serious issue outside of that province. Some of that complacency comes from a perspective that despite the large transfers of tax revenues to the rest of the country, Alberta has gained from being part of Canada. Financial Post columnist Kevin Carmichael stated that, “There are some Albertans who seem to think they would be better off as their own country. Maybe, but only because the province has enjoyed the benefits of being a member of a stable, diversified economy for more than a century.”

To understand whether Alberta is losing out economically as part of Confederation, or whether Albertans are ingrates who cannot see the importance of Canada for their economic success, as Carmichael suggests, Kent Fellows, a research associate at the University of Calgary’s School of Public Policy, and I investigated two questions: How important is trade with Alberta for the rest of Canada? And how important is trade with the rest of Canada for Alberta?

Beyond the direct impact of energy exports on the national economy, Alberta is important to the economies of other provinces as a market for their goods. Alberta imports from other provinces and territories goods and services for consumption, and intermediate inputs for Alberta’s production of goods and services. To give a few examples:

In 2015, Alberta imported $322 million worth of processed meat products from Ontario and $210 million worth of processed dairy products from Quebec. Alberta also imported $2.2 billion worth of natural gas from British Columbia (the majority of which was likely exported from Alberta along with Alberta-produced gas, mostly to the United States, with smaller but significant volumes going to Ontario).

Using a computational model of the Canadian economy, we investigated the impact of higher trade barriers between Alberta and the other provinces. We simulated the impact of imposing 100 per cent tariffs on interprovincial imports into Alberta and 100 per cent tariffs imposed by other provinces on imports from Alberta. Our modelling assumes that Alberta maintains the Canadian dollar, and that the trade cost increases have no impact on the Canada-U.S. dollar exchange rate.

To see the relative importance of oil and gas exports to other provinces, we also modelled increases in interprovincial export costs applied only to crude oil and natural gas from Alberta to other Canadian provinces. We believe our modelling evaluates the trade impacts of Alberta seceding, or at least having much greater independence, from the rest of Canada.

The rest of Canada clearly benefits from relatively unfettered trade with Alberta. Our model suggests that for the rest of the country, the value of trade attributable to having Alberta as part of the national market is $24 billion, or around 2 per cent of gross domestic product.

The value of trade with Alberta is 20 per cent higher than the value of annual federal fiscal transfers from Alberta to the rest of Canada over the past 20 years (nearly $20 billion per year). Those fiscal transfers from Alberta, in addition to the trade values, come in large part from the higher incomes and tax collections arising from international energy exports.

If Carmichael sees Alberta benefiting from being part of a stable, diversified national economy, then he and other Canadians need to recognize that Canada benefits from Alberta being a prosperous energy exporter. It is time to give up on the fallacy of the “resource curse” that is leading to disastrous federal policies.

Carmichael could be right that Alberta benefits from being part of the Canadian economy, but Alberta pays for that benefit, unlike Canadians in other provinces. Alberta’s GDP is $20 billion (or six per cent) higher with interprovincial trade than if it were excluded from the national market.

This value is approximately equal to the loss of GDP represented by its federal fiscal transfers to the rest of Canada. Alberta’s loss in GDP is due to lost exports to other provinces, while the rest of Canada’s GDP loss results from other provinces relying on more expensive goods imported from each other, or from international markets.

The rest of Canada has much more to lose from an independent Alberta than Alberta does
, meaning it might make sense the rest of Canada to consider a fair deal for Alberta to keep Confederation whole. The rest of Canada stands to lose $20 billion in annual fiscal transfers from Alberta and $24 billion from lost interprovincial trade if it were no longer part of the federation.

Alberta, on the other hand, would lose $20 billion in interprovincial trade, but would keep an equal value in net taxes no longer transferred to the federal government. Should Alberta successfully negotiate a tariff with the rest of Canada that’s less than 100 per cent, then Alberta would see a net gain from independence.

In seeking a “fair deal” from Confederation, Albertans are testing the foundations of the Canadian federation. Should the federal government choose not to bring more balance between the costs that federal policies, decisions and inaction imposes on Alberta and the rents it extracts from the province through its fiscal arrangements, Alberta separatists could find growing political support in the province. Secession, if it occurs, will result if enough Albertans find being treated like a disrespected cash cow intolerable.
 

Hoid

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 15, 2017
20,408
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BTW didn't the Libs just announce they are going to go with small nuke reactors to achieve their carbon neutral goals?

Isn't that what Moe wanted?

Where's his thank you letter?
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
15,824
1,236
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
BTW didn't the Libs just announce they are going to go with small nuke reactors to achieve their carbon neutral goals?

Isn't that what Moe wanted?

Where's his thank you letter?
I've heard that rumor that the Libs are now in support of small nuclear reactors....in Ontario.

Also shouldn't Premier Moe be in jail?

https://saskatoon.ctvnews.ca/23-yea...fatal-crash-following-facebook-post-1.5134917

'23 years and I find out our premier killed my mother': Scott Moe apologizes for fatal crash following Facebook post
That's a skeleton in his closet that he'll have to deal with. http://forums.canadiancontent.net/showthread.php?t=168404


http://www.cjme.com/2020/09/26/saskparty-and-ndp-field-candidates-in-all-ridings/
Ahead of the writ drop, both the Saskatchewan Party and opposition NDP have a full slate of 61 candidates. The NDP announced its final 12 candidates on Friday. The Sask. Party announced its final candidate last Saturday. Both parties have disclosed the criminal past of candidates including impaired driving convictions and pardons.

The NDP candidates with convictions include:

  • Carter Antoine, who is running for a seat in Yorkton-Melville, was convicted of impaired driving in 2017
  • Bhajan Brar, for Regina Pasqua, was convicted of dangerous driving causing bodily harm in 2011
  • Ken Burton, for Moosomin, was convicted of impaired driving in 1973
  • Bonnie Galenzowski, for Melville-Saltcoats, was convicted of impaired driving in 1982
  • Rod McCorriston, for Carrot River Valley, was convicted of impaired driving in 1980
  • Lyle Whitefish, for Saskatchewan Rivers, was convicted of impaired driving in 2011

The Sask. Party candidates with an impaired driving conviction are:

  • Terry Dennis, MLA for Canora-Pelly, was convicted 1978 and 2001
  • Don McMorris, MLA for Indian Head Milestone, was convicted in 2016
  • Terry Jenson, for Martensville Warman, was convicted in 1994
  • Scott Moe, premier and MLA for Rosthern Shellbrook, was convicted in 1992
  • Manny Sadhra, for Saskatoon Fairview, was convicted in 2008
  • Eric Olauson, for Saskatoon University, was convicted in 1992 and 1993
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatoon/scott-moe-sheds-light-on-fatal-1997-crash-1.4280677
 

Durry

House Member
May 18, 2010
4,690
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83
Canada
I don’t see a way out for us anytime soon, if ever.
As long as Ont & Quebec hold on to their large population base, under the current parliamentary scheme, we will continue to be screwed, so we just have to learn to suck it up.
 
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Twin_Moose

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 17, 2017
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Twin Moose Creek
They are looking at their chances of being re-elected on a national and global platform fall flat on their face if the separation movement really takes hold if left unchecked
 

B00Mer

This is the way
Sep 6, 2008
40,040
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Canada

taxme

Council Member
Feb 11, 2020
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I would like to see BC become the 52nd state of the union after Alberta. Works well for me. (y)
 
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Reactions: Serryah

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
15,824
1,236
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
If you want to destroy Canada, ignore the results of the Alberta referendum says one news story:

vs:


Will be interesting regardless of how this is addressed by the current Feds.
 
  • Wow
Reactions: Twin_Moose

pgs

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 29, 2008
22,161
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If you want to destroy Canada, ignore the results of the Alberta referendum says one news story:

vs:


Will be interesting regardless of how this is addressed by the current Feds.
Just think a parliament beholden to two seperatist parties .
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
15,824
1,236
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
If the Trudeau government simply ignores this mandate the next vote in Alberta could be for secession. And that outcome could also lead to a referendum in Saskatchewan.
Canada, as currently constituted, simply isn’t working for them and for many others. The re-election of Justin Trudeau with only 32.6 per cent of the popular vote not only underscores the country’s structural fault lines, but leaves Canadians with a leader whose priority is to propel Canada toward becoming Scandinavia on steroids.

With help from the hapless NDP, the two privileged leaders — Trudeau and Jagmeet Singh — can rule as a majority without opposition. They can fix everyone’s teeth, give everyone free drugs, make working an option, tax the rich until they move to the Bahamas, and allow 400,000 immigrants a year or more into the country to snack on the great Canadian gravy train as long as they vote Liberal.

This is not the country most Canadians want, and it’s good for all that Albertans are calling it out for what it is: A nation run by a Liberal elite who bribe Atlantic Canada and Quebec to stay in power.

Alberta and Saskatchewan are now bigger economically than Quebec and yet have a smaller population of 5.6 million compared to Quebec’s 8.5 million. Besides that reality, the Laurentian Elite establishment should disavow itself of the notion that those two provinces are not that important in future because their wealth is mostly based on oil and gas, both of which are headed for the ditch.

That’s blatantly untrue. The International Energy Agency forecasts that demand for natural gas will steadily grow this century, and oil demand will increase to 97 million barrels a day by 2025 and could lower to 77 million barrels a day by 2050 — only if most cars are electric vehicles powered by renewables. That’s two generations away and far from certain.

In addition, the media has failed to report that the UN Climate Change Panel worst case scenario of a 4 C rise in temperature is unlikely. Wall Street Journal columnist Holman Jenkins notes that “the best estimate of the ‘transient climate response’ this century is about 2.7 degrees, or 1.6 degrees on top of the warming experienced since the start of the industrial age.” Compare how this has been reported to “media coverage of the U.S. National Climate Assessment in 2018, which paraded as a nearly foregone conclusion a temperature increase of 6.1 degrees,” Jenkins adds.

Even so, Canadians cannot under-estimate PM Sparkle-Socks when it comes to swallowing whole the climate change hysteria trotted out by the Gerald Butts and green zealots of this world. If Prime Minister Trudeau throws Alberta and Saskatchewan on to the pyre at the upcoming COP26 climate change summit on November 12, then that will provide another legitimate reason for Albertans to insist on justice.