Summer is not a good time to visit Mexico, I went in the early fall and was faced with 40degC days.
"The west wants out": Separatist sentiments growing in Alberta
- Thread starter B00Mer
- Start date
Many of our politicians and senior staff like to have important meetings in the country they were born in when the weather is crappy here.
I'm posting the below link not because I'm in favour of separation, but I'm opposed to the shit attitude displayed by some with respect to the sentiment of alienation in Western Canada as to it's reality or not. It's real, & someone doesn't have to be a traitor to recognize it as being real.
http://nationalpost.com/opinion/her...n-independent-alberta-and-the-numbers-show-it
Alberta’s demand for a “fair deal” in Confederation is not taken as a serious issue outside of that province. Some of that complacency comes from a perspective that despite the large transfers of tax revenues to the rest of the country, Alberta has gained from being part of Canada. Financial Post columnist Kevin Carmichael stated that, “There are some Albertans who seem to think they would be better off as their own country. Maybe, but only because the province has enjoyed the benefits of being a member of a stable, diversified economy for more than a century.”
To understand whether Alberta is losing out economically as part of Confederation, or whether Albertans are ingrates who cannot see the importance of Canada for their economic success, as Carmichael suggests, Kent Fellows, a research associate at the University of Calgary’s School of Public Policy, and I investigated two questions: How important is trade with Alberta for the rest of Canada? And how important is trade with the rest of Canada for Alberta?
Beyond the direct impact of energy exports on the national economy, Alberta is important to the economies of other provinces as a market for their goods. Alberta imports from other provinces and territories goods and services for consumption, and intermediate inputs for Alberta’s production of goods and services. To give a few examples:
In 2015, Alberta imported $322 million worth of processed meat products from Ontario and $210 million worth of processed dairy products from Quebec. Alberta also imported $2.2 billion worth of natural gas from British Columbia (the majority of which was likely exported from Alberta along with Alberta-produced gas, mostly to the United States, with smaller but significant volumes going to Ontario).
Using a computational model of the Canadian economy, we investigated the impact of higher trade barriers between Alberta and the other provinces. We simulated the impact of imposing 100 per cent tariffs on interprovincial imports into Alberta and 100 per cent tariffs imposed by other provinces on imports from Alberta. Our modelling assumes that Alberta maintains the Canadian dollar, and that the trade cost increases have no impact on the Canada-U.S. dollar exchange rate.
To see the relative importance of oil and gas exports to other provinces, we also modelled increases in interprovincial export costs applied only to crude oil and natural gas from Alberta to other Canadian provinces. We believe our modelling evaluates the trade impacts of Alberta seceding, or at least having much greater independence, from the rest of Canada.
The rest of Canada clearly benefits from relatively unfettered trade with Alberta. Our model suggests that for the rest of the country, the value of trade attributable to having Alberta as part of the national market is $24 billion, or around 2 per cent of gross domestic product.
The value of trade with Alberta is 20 per cent higher than the value of annual federal fiscal transfers from Alberta to the rest of Canada over the past 20 years (nearly $20 billion per year). Those fiscal transfers from Alberta, in addition to the trade values, come in large part from the higher incomes and tax collections arising from international energy exports.
If Carmichael sees Alberta benefiting from being part of a stable, diversified national economy, then he and other Canadians need to recognize that Canada benefits from Alberta being a prosperous energy exporter. It is time to give up on the fallacy of the “resource curse” that is leading to disastrous federal policies.
Carmichael could be right that Alberta benefits from being part of the Canadian economy, but Alberta pays for that benefit, unlike Canadians in other provinces. Alberta’s GDP is $20 billion (or six per cent) higher with interprovincial trade than if it were excluded from the national market.
This value is approximately equal to the loss of GDP represented by its federal fiscal transfers to the rest of Canada. Alberta’s loss in GDP is due to lost exports to other provinces, while the rest of Canada’s GDP loss results from other provinces relying on more expensive goods imported from each other, or from international markets.
The rest of Canada has much more to lose from an independent Alberta than Alberta does, meaning it might make sense the rest of Canada to consider a fair deal for Alberta to keep Confederation whole. The rest of Canada stands to lose $20 billion in annual fiscal transfers from Alberta and $24 billion from lost interprovincial trade if it were no longer part of the federation.
Alberta, on the other hand, would lose $20 billion in interprovincial trade, but would keep an equal value in net taxes no longer transferred to the federal government. Should Alberta successfully negotiate a tariff with the rest of Canada that’s less than 100 per cent, then Alberta would see a net gain from independence.
In seeking a “fair deal” from Confederation, Albertans are testing the foundations of the Canadian federation. Should the federal government choose not to bring more balance between the costs that federal policies, decisions and inaction imposes on Alberta and the rents it extracts from the province through its fiscal arrangements, Alberta separatists could find growing political support in the province. Secession, if it occurs, will result if enough Albertans find being treated like a disrespected cash cow intolerable.
http://nationalpost.com/opinion/her...n-independent-alberta-and-the-numbers-show-it
Alberta’s demand for a “fair deal” in Confederation is not taken as a serious issue outside of that province. Some of that complacency comes from a perspective that despite the large transfers of tax revenues to the rest of the country, Alberta has gained from being part of Canada. Financial Post columnist Kevin Carmichael stated that, “There are some Albertans who seem to think they would be better off as their own country. Maybe, but only because the province has enjoyed the benefits of being a member of a stable, diversified economy for more than a century.”
To understand whether Alberta is losing out economically as part of Confederation, or whether Albertans are ingrates who cannot see the importance of Canada for their economic success, as Carmichael suggests, Kent Fellows, a research associate at the University of Calgary’s School of Public Policy, and I investigated two questions: How important is trade with Alberta for the rest of Canada? And how important is trade with the rest of Canada for Alberta?
Beyond the direct impact of energy exports on the national economy, Alberta is important to the economies of other provinces as a market for their goods. Alberta imports from other provinces and territories goods and services for consumption, and intermediate inputs for Alberta’s production of goods and services. To give a few examples:
In 2015, Alberta imported $322 million worth of processed meat products from Ontario and $210 million worth of processed dairy products from Quebec. Alberta also imported $2.2 billion worth of natural gas from British Columbia (the majority of which was likely exported from Alberta along with Alberta-produced gas, mostly to the United States, with smaller but significant volumes going to Ontario).
Using a computational model of the Canadian economy, we investigated the impact of higher trade barriers between Alberta and the other provinces. We simulated the impact of imposing 100 per cent tariffs on interprovincial imports into Alberta and 100 per cent tariffs imposed by other provinces on imports from Alberta. Our modelling assumes that Alberta maintains the Canadian dollar, and that the trade cost increases have no impact on the Canada-U.S. dollar exchange rate.
To see the relative importance of oil and gas exports to other provinces, we also modelled increases in interprovincial export costs applied only to crude oil and natural gas from Alberta to other Canadian provinces. We believe our modelling evaluates the trade impacts of Alberta seceding, or at least having much greater independence, from the rest of Canada.
The rest of Canada clearly benefits from relatively unfettered trade with Alberta. Our model suggests that for the rest of the country, the value of trade attributable to having Alberta as part of the national market is $24 billion, or around 2 per cent of gross domestic product.
The value of trade with Alberta is 20 per cent higher than the value of annual federal fiscal transfers from Alberta to the rest of Canada over the past 20 years (nearly $20 billion per year). Those fiscal transfers from Alberta, in addition to the trade values, come in large part from the higher incomes and tax collections arising from international energy exports.
If Carmichael sees Alberta benefiting from being part of a stable, diversified national economy, then he and other Canadians need to recognize that Canada benefits from Alberta being a prosperous energy exporter. It is time to give up on the fallacy of the “resource curse” that is leading to disastrous federal policies.
Carmichael could be right that Alberta benefits from being part of the Canadian economy, but Alberta pays for that benefit, unlike Canadians in other provinces. Alberta’s GDP is $20 billion (or six per cent) higher with interprovincial trade than if it were excluded from the national market.
This value is approximately equal to the loss of GDP represented by its federal fiscal transfers to the rest of Canada. Alberta’s loss in GDP is due to lost exports to other provinces, while the rest of Canada’s GDP loss results from other provinces relying on more expensive goods imported from each other, or from international markets.
The rest of Canada has much more to lose from an independent Alberta than Alberta does, meaning it might make sense the rest of Canada to consider a fair deal for Alberta to keep Confederation whole. The rest of Canada stands to lose $20 billion in annual fiscal transfers from Alberta and $24 billion from lost interprovincial trade if it were no longer part of the federation.
Alberta, on the other hand, would lose $20 billion in interprovincial trade, but would keep an equal value in net taxes no longer transferred to the federal government. Should Alberta successfully negotiate a tariff with the rest of Canada that’s less than 100 per cent, then Alberta would see a net gain from independence.
In seeking a “fair deal” from Confederation, Albertans are testing the foundations of the Canadian federation. Should the federal government choose not to bring more balance between the costs that federal policies, decisions and inaction imposes on Alberta and the rents it extracts from the province through its fiscal arrangements, Alberta separatists could find growing political support in the province. Secession, if it occurs, will result if enough Albertans find being treated like a disrespected cash cow intolerable.
Because Alberta is an "Example" used in this case, & yes Alberta is a part of Western Canada. Is this better?
That has nothing to do with "western" separation.Because Alberta is an "Example" used in this case, & yes Alberta is a part of Western Canada. Is this better?
It is an impressive cut and paste though.
Also shouldn't Premier Moe be in jail?
https://saskatoon.ctvnews.ca/23-yea...fatal-crash-following-facebook-post-1.5134917
'23 years and I find out our premier killed my mother': Scott Moe apologizes for fatal crash following Facebook post
https://saskatoon.ctvnews.ca/23-yea...fatal-crash-following-facebook-post-1.5134917
'23 years and I find out our premier killed my mother': Scott Moe apologizes for fatal crash following Facebook post
I've heard that rumor that the Libs are now in support of small nuclear reactors....in Ontario.
That's a skeleton in his closet that he'll have to deal with. http://forums.canadiancontent.net/showthread.php?t=168404
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatoon/scott-moe-sheds-light-on-fatal-1997-crash-1.4280677
The NDP are worried about and are trying to use the western separation against Kenney
Alberta NDP to bring forward motion Monday that will ask UCP to condemn Western separatism
Alberta NDP to bring forward motion Monday that will ask UCP to condemn Western separatism
They are looking at their chances of being re-elected on a national and global platform fall flat on their face if the separation movement really takes hold if left unchecked
This is becoming a seriously question for the next election..
"The west wants out": Separatist sentiments growing in Alberta : CanadianConservative (reddit.com)
Is it time for Alberta to become the 51st state??
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calg...uld-be-better-off-as-51st-u-s-state-1.2998453
Not just Alberta wants to leave...
https://youtu.be/Hae6gkY-4hE
I am officially voting WildRose Party.
Wildrose Independence Party of Alberta | A sovereign Alberta is the only answer
"The west wants out": Separatist sentiments growing in Alberta : CanadianConservative (reddit.com)
Is it time for Alberta to become the 51st state??
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calg...uld-be-better-off-as-51st-u-s-state-1.2998453
Not just Alberta wants to leave...
https://youtu.be/Hae6gkY-4hE
I am officially voting WildRose Party.
Wildrose Independence Party of Alberta | A sovereign Alberta is the only answer
I would like to see BC become the 52nd state of the union after Alberta. Works well for me.
If you want to destroy Canada, ignore the results of the Alberta referendum says one news story:
apple.news
vs:
www.theglobeandmail.com
Will be interesting regardless of how this is addressed by the current Feds.
John Robson: If you want to destroy Canada, ignore the results of the Alberta referendum — National Post
If the final tally shows Albertans want to end equalization, and the feds ignore that, the province's next vote will be on separation
vs:
Opinion: How should the rest of Canada react to Alberta’s equalization referendum? By ignoring it
Any measures stemming from the vote would be a constitutional overreach, and its own advocates have called it little more than a bluff. Why should Ottawa take it seriously?
www.theglobeandmail.com
Will be interesting regardless of how this is addressed by the current Feds.
Just think a parliament beholden to two seperatist parties .If you want to destroy Canada, ignore the results of the Alberta referendum says one news story:
John Robson: If you want to destroy Canada, ignore the results of the Alberta referendum — National Post
If the final tally shows Albertans want to end equalization, and the feds ignore that, the province's next vote will be on separation
vs:
Opinion: How should the rest of Canada react to Alberta’s equalization referendum? By ignoring it
Any measures stemming from the vote would be a constitutional overreach, and its own advocates have called it little more than a bluff. Why should Ottawa take it seriously?
Will be interesting regardless of how this is addressed by the current Feds.
If the Trudeau government simply ignores this mandate the next vote in Alberta could be for secession. And that outcome could also lead to a referendum in Saskatchewan.
apple.news
Canada, as currently constituted, simply isn’t working for them and for many others. The re-election of Justin Trudeau with only 32.6 per cent of the popular vote not only underscores the country’s structural fault lines, but leaves Canadians with a leader whose priority is to propel Canada toward becoming Scandinavia on steroids.
With help from the hapless NDP, the two privileged leaders — Trudeau and Jagmeet Singh — can rule as a majority without opposition. They can fix everyone’s teeth, give everyone free drugs, make working an option, tax the rich until they move to the Bahamas, and allow 400,000 immigrants a year or more into the country to snack on the great Canadian gravy train as long as they vote Liberal.
This is not the country most Canadians want, and it’s good for all that Albertans are calling it out for what it is: A nation run by a Liberal elite who bribe Atlantic Canada and Quebec to stay in power.
Alberta and Saskatchewan are now bigger economically than Quebec and yet have a smaller population of 5.6 million compared to Quebec’s 8.5 million. Besides that reality, the Laurentian Elite establishment should disavow itself of the notion that those two provinces are not that important in future because their wealth is mostly based on oil and gas, both of which are headed for the ditch.
That’s blatantly untrue. The International Energy Agency forecasts that demand for natural gas will steadily grow this century, and oil demand will increase to 97 million barrels a day by 2025 and could lower to 77 million barrels a day by 2050 — only if most cars are electric vehicles powered by renewables. That’s two generations away and far from certain.
In addition, the media has failed to report that the UN Climate Change Panel worst case scenario of a 4 C rise in temperature is unlikely. Wall Street Journal columnist Holman Jenkins notes that “the best estimate of the ‘transient climate response’ this century is about 2.7 degrees, or 1.6 degrees on top of the warming experienced since the start of the industrial age.” Compare how this has been reported to “media coverage of the U.S. National Climate Assessment in 2018, which paraded as a nearly foregone conclusion a temperature increase of 6.1 degrees,” Jenkins adds.
Even so, Canadians cannot under-estimate PM Sparkle-Socks when it comes to swallowing whole the climate change hysteria trotted out by the Gerald Butts and green zealots of this world. If Prime Minister Trudeau throws Alberta and Saskatchewan on to the pyre at the upcoming COP26 climate change summit on November 12, then that will provide another legitimate reason for Albertans to insist on justice.
Diane Francis: Trudeau must heed equalization referendum — Financial Post
Canada, as currently constituted, simply isn’t working for Albertans and for many others
With help from the hapless NDP, the two privileged leaders — Trudeau and Jagmeet Singh — can rule as a majority without opposition. They can fix everyone’s teeth, give everyone free drugs, make working an option, tax the rich until they move to the Bahamas, and allow 400,000 immigrants a year or more into the country to snack on the great Canadian gravy train as long as they vote Liberal.
This is not the country most Canadians want, and it’s good for all that Albertans are calling it out for what it is: A nation run by a Liberal elite who bribe Atlantic Canada and Quebec to stay in power.
Alberta and Saskatchewan are now bigger economically than Quebec and yet have a smaller population of 5.6 million compared to Quebec’s 8.5 million. Besides that reality, the Laurentian Elite establishment should disavow itself of the notion that those two provinces are not that important in future because their wealth is mostly based on oil and gas, both of which are headed for the ditch.
That’s blatantly untrue. The International Energy Agency forecasts that demand for natural gas will steadily grow this century, and oil demand will increase to 97 million barrels a day by 2025 and could lower to 77 million barrels a day by 2050 — only if most cars are electric vehicles powered by renewables. That’s two generations away and far from certain.
In addition, the media has failed to report that the UN Climate Change Panel worst case scenario of a 4 C rise in temperature is unlikely. Wall Street Journal columnist Holman Jenkins notes that “the best estimate of the ‘transient climate response’ this century is about 2.7 degrees, or 1.6 degrees on top of the warming experienced since the start of the industrial age.” Compare how this has been reported to “media coverage of the U.S. National Climate Assessment in 2018, which paraded as a nearly foregone conclusion a temperature increase of 6.1 degrees,” Jenkins adds.
Even so, Canadians cannot under-estimate PM Sparkle-Socks when it comes to swallowing whole the climate change hysteria trotted out by the Gerald Butts and green zealots of this world. If Prime Minister Trudeau throws Alberta and Saskatchewan on to the pyre at the upcoming COP26 climate change summit on November 12, then that will provide another legitimate reason for Albertans to insist on justice.
Long over due.. time for the west to opt out of Confederation..
I have become a separatist after the last election
I have become a separatist after the last election
I just want to separate kweebek from the Canada. That would be the easiest and cheapest option. Also a wakeup call to OntatiOWE that if they don't toe the line they will be a third world country of their own too.