The Pope Has Passed On

[LadyC]

LadyC until you can go and debate vanni on his challenge, and prove he is wrong, than he and everyone else not only has the right they have the duty to challenge a system of beliefs, especially if they are going to use them to try and shape laws and legislation.

What is ironic is that you will not do that, yet because you get upset we are suppose to stop questioning any belief system that wants to Force their values onto us. Well that is not the way freedom works, and that has nothing to do with thinking.

You just don't get it, do you? I have no desire to prove Vanni wrong. That's not going to happen. Unlike you, I respect his right to his beliefs.

I find it interesting, not to mention offensive, that you feel you, Vanni and others have the right and the duty to challenge a system of beliefs, yet you feel we're the ones trying to cram our religion down your throat.

 

[peapod]

Than you have not been reading tibears posts from the begining..he bases his views on homosexuality and abortion on the teachings of the bible...If he does not than let him tell me what he does base it on. If he bases its on the teachings of the bible, than let him take vanni challenge. Its that simple, tibear wants me to see that he is right, than I say prove it. And yes I do consider what tibear does cramming his religious beliefs down my throat.

Most of all what I resent even more, is people who live exactly the same kind of lives that most of us do and yet try to pretend they have some kind of higher moral ground than the rest of us. Don't preach to me and I wont preach to you.

 

[hwacker]

We promote legislation based on scientific and rational thought, tibear. You promote legislation based on book of myths. Many of those myths are repugnant, even harmful, in the modern world.

We WHO ? (Liberals)


You don’t actually believe the stuff you post do you?

"book of myths" WTF is wrong with you ?

 

[tibear]

Pea,

STOP RIGHT THERE. :evil:

I have NEVER quoted from the bible about homosexuality or abortion. :roll:

STOP putting words in my mouth!! :angryfire:

My believe about homosexuality is that it is simply another sexual lifestyle, no different than bigamy, pedophelia or incest. That has always been my argument points, NEVER religious.

As for abortion, I have made the point that life begins far before birth and that many situations in life are similar to the "child in the womb". I've drawn comparisons and asked for clarifications from the pro-abortion side. Again, NEVER a religious arguement.

I've never said anyone is going to hell if they don't follow the Bible. It is their choice to believe or not. It isn't my place to TELL people what to believe.

 

[LadyC]

Ah.... so it's tibear you have the issues with. Why are you also demanding I take up Vanni's challenge as well?

FYI... I also base my opinions on abortion and homosexuality on the Bible. And I don't necessarily agree with him on those issues. Until you can prove that all non-Christians are on one side of those issues and all Christians are on the other then their religious beliefs are irrelevant.

 

[jamie]

We promote legislation based on scientific and rational thought, tibear. You promote legislation based on book of myths. Many of those myths are repugnant, even harmful, in the modern world.

All influenced by people, who are fallible and feuled by their own agendas.

 

[LadyC]

Not to mention the repugnance of some of our legislators.

 

[peapod]

Than do tell tibear exactly! what you base your views on homosexuality and abortion, if not the bible.

LadyC what is ironic is the fact you are the first one to scream freedom of speech, I guess that only means when it suits you. I am finished in this thread, and when tibear explains to me EXACTLY where he gets his beliefs on homosexuality and abortion. And I QUESTION tibears beliefs because of what he is basing them on, and I question them ONLY because he wants legislation and laws forced upon the rest of us based on them.

And no its not that you wont take up vanni challenge, its because you can't. Its never a pleasant road to the the truth, but that does not change it.

 

[tibear]

Pea,

Go back to the SSM and abortion thread and read it yourself. It's all there and I dare you to find one instance where I quoted the bible to prove a point. JUST ONE!!!!

I've never hidden the fact that I am a religious person, BUT I've also pointed out on many occasions that using religious arguements with non-believers is never going to work and you must use arguements that make sense to them.

However, you have continually accused me of being a bible-thumper without ANY evidence.

You want me to prove to Vanni, RB, You, etc that faith is something that we should all have. As I've said before you can't prove faith, its something you have or you don't.

However, you can prove your assertions that I'm a bible-thumper. So please, until you can prove with one of my posts where I quote book,chapter and verse or where I say that "God said", please stop attacking me and accusing me of things I haven't done!

 

[Vanni Fucci]

We all know that faith cannot be proven to the satisfaction of secular individuals such as yourself.

It is like the wind or gravity, you can see the effects but you cannot see either the wind or gravity themselves.

That statement could not be more wrong though tibear. Wind and gravity can be tested and affirmed with the application of scientific method and fact. The same cannot be said of faith.

Faith is a denial of fact.

 

[Reverend Blair]

We WHO ? (Liberals)


You don’t actually believe the stuff you post do you?

"book of myths" WTF is wrong with you ?

I'm not a Liberal, Wacker.

I not only believe the stuff I post, but make rational arguments for it. Far more than I've seen you manage.

The Bible is not a book of facts. It is the myth of an ancient religion...no more informed by science and reason than stories about Zeus and Hercules.

 

[LadyC]

Peapod...
I completely believe in free speech. Heck.... the reason I got banned from FreeDominion was because I pointed out how many people got banned for opposing views.

As for Vanni's challenge... sure I can, pea. I just choose not to. In case you missed it before, I respect his right to his opinions and beliefs. You obviously don't respect mine.

 

[Jay]

"The Bible is not a book of facts."


Because there were no Israelites and they were not slaves to Egypt and there is no Palestine, and certainly no House of David, let alone the Levites. Moses didn’t exist, nor his brother Aaron. The Twelve tribes are not lost, because they don't exist. Saul (Paul) didn't exist either, nor the early churches of Christ. Jesus didn't have mother, or a father, and there were no disciples because he didn't exist either. They didn't kill the Christ. It’s all made up.

I have land for sale also. PM me and I will tell you about the details.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Re: RE: The Pope Has Passed On

"The Bible is not a book of facts."


Because there were no Israelites and they were not slaves to Egypt and there is no Palestine, and certainly no House of David, let alone the Levites. Moses didn’t exist, nor his brother Aaron. The Twelve tribes are not lost, because they don't exist. Saul (Paul) didn't exist either, nor the early churches of Christ. Jesus didn't have mother, or a father, and there were no disciples because he didn't exist either. They didn't kill the Christ. It’s all made up.

Actually Jay, you're pretty much bang on the money there buddy...:wink:

except for the early churches...they did exist, but they were more like a cult, than an actual church or ministry... 8)

...and it was Finkelstein and Silberman, of the Archaelogical Department at the Tel Aviv University that have debunked most of the myths of the Old Testament/Torah...

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: The Pope Has Passed O

In Greek mythology we find references to real places and events that have at least a basis in history. We also find those things in Stephen King books. Those are not accepted as factual tomes on which to base our lives though, Jay. Your book is no more historically accurate.

 

[peapod]

And I say you can't. So its a stalemate, until you prove to me different. As far as respecting your beliefs, I think you are twisting the real question. I am questioning tibears beliefs on homosexuality and abortion, and as far as I can see until he tells me different he is basing them on the bible. Hell I don't care if tibear thinks the sponge is a homosexual, as long as HE does not try to impose his beliefs into laws and legislation. Read some history and see what his views have caused, nothing but misery to minority of society. So if I am disrespecting your beliefs than they are the same as tibears, so I guess you could be right.

Still...it does not change the turth.

 

[LadyC]

Read some history and see what his views have caused, nothing but misery to minority of society.

All right. But you must do the same. Take a look through history and see what happens when the state tries to outlaw religious beliefs.

You're welcome to your beliefs, peapod, so am I, and so is tibear. You don't have to like what anyone else believes, but it's a good idea to respect it.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: The Pope Has Passed O

Nobody is talking about outlawing your beliefs, Lady C. We are saying that they have business in the governance of the nation.

 

[peapod]

Who is trying to outlaw your religious beliefs???? No one, I don't care what you believe. But when the majoritity of canadians say they want something that is called the will of the people. Believe whatever you like, just don't try and impose them on the majority of canadians who have already stated how they feel.

Beliefs are challenged all the time? Tibear brought them here, not I, and if you think that some of us are going to stand by and not challenge him you are sadly mistaken.

So you can rest assured ladyc that banning christian beliefs is not in my beliefs at all. I just do not want their idea of morality forced onto me. My idea of morality is at a much higher standard, or at least I think so. :wink:

 

[LadyC]

Re: RE: The Pope Has Passed On

Read some history and see what his views have caused, nothing but misery to minority of society.

All right. But you must do the same. Take a look through history and see what happens when the state tries to outlaw religious beliefs.

We were talking history. Neither of you can dispute the fact, so you change tactics to point out that no-one is trying to outlaw my beliefs.

Nice try.