The Official Contempt for Alberta Thread

[captain morgan]

Wages should definitely be regulated on an international basis.

It would prevent one of the most harmful aspects of the free market, which is giving competitive advantage to a state that makes its citizens slaves while others that actually adhere to human rights standards suffer.

It would move U.S. and EU demand for manufacturing goods from Mexico to Canada, for instance.

Didi you miss the comment about relativity in terms of economics?

Toronto will transform into a ghost town if the wage rate payable there is also the same as say, Ixtapa or Cancun?... Who in their right mind would stay in a major city when you can buy 5 homes for the cost of 1 house in TO?

I will give Ontario as a prime example. With over 50% of the provincial budget allotted for labour.

Seriously?!

 

[CDNBear]

Seriously?!

Yep.

And Flosster thinks the HDIC is da bomb.

 

[petros]

Wages should definitely be regulated on an international basis.

It would prevent one of the most harmful aspects of the free market, which is giving competitive advantage to a state that makes its citizens slaves while others that actually adhere to human rights standards suffer financially.

It would move U.S. and EU demand for manufacturing goods from Mexico to Canada, for instance.

First you'd have to devalue everything. Are you up for tossing away all your labour and loot?

Toronto will transform into a ghost town if the wage rate payable there is also the same as say, Ixtapa or Cancun?... Who in their right mind would stay in a major city when you can buy 5 homes for the cost of 1 house in TO?

try 10 and it can be done right now within Canada.

 

[grainfedpraiboy]

He also believes a free market is by nature a good one and that kind of naivety is extra special.

Regulated, the free market and capitalism is the only hope humanity has to correct the environmental problems we have today and to ensure prosperity, health and well being for all people on the planet in the future. Unregulated it is a destructive force.

Spills happen,

Spills should NOT happen ever. Properly regulated, constructed and maintained a pipeline should be trouble free. Would you accept that nuclear reactors should be tolerated to meltdown periodically?

 

[mentalfloss]

The worst part is that this was a NEW pipeline.

 

[CDNBear]

Yay, we're getting back to the topic.

 

[grainfedpraiboy]

My question still stands... What direct and tangible experience do you have in judging what are 'reasonable' regulations?

Much like the watery phrase of 'fair share', is a continually moving target

Regulations are a positive and one of the few things government is good at.

In some cases such as the medical field they self regulate while the government stands aside with a heavy stick waiting for a mistake. In other cases where the government is the sole regulator such as vehicle sales manufacturers need to meet minimum safety guidelines and a competent government is the only choice.

Regulations are rules and are a contract or memorandum of understanding between consumers and the suppliers of goods and services. Some regulations are poorly drafted and are inadequate or adversely harm industry. Others don't go near far enough and favour industry too much such as banking and investing.

 

[petros]

Another confused fool. Right on.

 

[captain morgan]

Regulations are a positive and one of the few things government is good at.

In some cases such as the medical field they self regulate while the government stands aside with a heavy stick waiting for a mistake. In other cases where the government is the sole regulator such as vehicle sales manufacturers need to meet minimum safety guidelines and a competent government is the only choice.

Regulations are rules and are a contract or memorandum of understanding between consumers and the suppliers of goods and services. Some regulations are poorly drafted and are inadequate or adversely harm industry. Others don't go near far enough and favour industry too much such as banking and investing.

All the things you say are bang-on; in a perfect world that is.

Fact is that the regulatory environment today is used a political weapon in addition to a revenue source long before it's role as a moderator of the public interest.

 

[grainfedpraiboy]

Of course things are a moving target.

But we begin to learn about minimum standards for things like wages, for example.

Minimum wages are a tricky topic. Everyone in Canada should be able to earn at minimum a living wage if they choose to participate in the labour force however, the expectation that industry alone is responsible for this standard of living ensures off the hop why any increase or target amount is doomed to fail as witnessed by minimum wage laws in every jurisdiction over the past 50 years that have utterly failed to end poverty in every single one of those jurisdictions.

Fact is that the regulatory environment today is used a political weapon in addition to a revenue source long before it's role as a moderator of the public interest.

I agree completely. Thus we don't have a free market or industry problem. We have a political problem.

 

[taxslave]

No, regulation.

On a person basis, we are continuing to incur larger debt with no recourse of paying back because we are opening things up.

People in this country are generally poor with how they handle their own money.

On an international scale, the idea of trade is fine, but we still have places like Mexico and China which are taking away business from other countries because wages there are criminally low.

So this isn't just a local thing.

Free trade is a global human rights issue.

We already have too much regulation. That is part of the problem, have to follow the rules even when they make no sense or are counterproductive. Bureacratic mindset.

 

[grainfedpraiboy]

We already have too much regulation. That is part of the problem, have to follow the rules even when they make no sense or are counterproductive. Bureacratic mindset.

There is a difference between quality and quantity of regulations. If the correct rules were in place and the company followed them there would not be a spill unless it was deliberate or some act of God. Otherwise there should be enough redundancy in the system to overcome human error or mechanical malfunctions.

 

[wulfie68]

If this is a new line, I think it behooves us to wait on passing judgement until after we know WHY it failed. Generally speaking, when a line fails, there is usually some culpability with the operator (poor engineering, design and inspection during construction or poor maintenance practices leading to corrosion issues are your leading causes), but if this is something that resulted from 3rd party damage, its not the pipeline company's fault (unless they refused to participate in a One Call/Dial Before You Dig program).

Does pipeline safety need to be regulated? Absolutely, but if existing regulations cover this failure, then why would we need new ones or more?

I just think it is interesting that they used to report spills in barrels, but now they report them in litres, which means the reporting number is roughly 200 times higher...

 

[CDNBear]

I just think it is interesting that they used to report spills in barrels, but now they report them in litres, which means the reporting number is roughly 200 times higher...

Because news isn't news, it's infotainment and the fearmongers love spreading fear.

Hence Flossy.

 

[SLM]

If this is a new line, I think it behooves us to wait on passing judgement until after we know WHY it failed. Generally speaking, when a line fails, there is usually some culpability with the operator (poor engineering, design and inspection during construction or poor maintenance practices leading to corrosion issues are your leading causes), but if this is something that resulted from 3rd party damage, its not the pipeline company's fault (unless they refused to participate in a One Call/Dial Before You Dig program).

Does pipeline safety need to be regulated? Absolutely, but if existing regulations cover this failure, then why would we need new ones or more?

I just think it is interesting that they used to report spills in barrels, but now they report them in litres, which means the reporting number is roughly 200 times higher...

There's no room for your whole "let's be reasonable and actually find out what happened".....this is the internet, man, the internet....why this here is the place for folks to get all upset and take polarizing, extreme views.

 

[mentalfloss]

There is a difference between quality and quantity of regulations. If the correct rules were in place and the company followed them there would not be a spill unless it was deliberate or some act of God. Otherwise there should be enough redundancy in the system to overcome human error or mechanical malfunctions.

Notley made a statement on CBC which echoes this idea.

The thing is, we keep thinking that we have the right regs in place, but then something like this happens.

 

[petros]

Are you upset? Thank Goodness it wasn't another Lac Magantic. Do you remember me warning about a rail disaster just a couple months prior and you laughing about it?

 

[CDNBear]

Are you upset? Thank Goodness it wasn't another Lac Magantic. Do you remember me warning about a rail disaster just a couple months prior and you laughing about it?

I do, lol.

 

[petros]

And you are the only one who was aware of oil purposely being overinflated in 2006 to pay for Saudi mega projects.

 

[CDNBear]

Other than you, the Captain, probably.

But we tend to look at the big picture and understand how it works.

Likely because we aren't just looking for gotchya news to feed our ideologies.