The Independent Woman

[Kreskin]

Women are not treated equal in the workplace. It has long been said that if a man needs a masters, then a woman needs a phd. The man will still be paid more, and it will automatically be assumed that the man is better at logic, analytical thinking, computers, and anything more challenging than putting a few words together. Women can be independent in the sense that they can manage very well without men, but they will never be considered equal by men (and many women) intellectually (in the workplace).

I don't know about that. The person I have the most respect for and one I'd hire in an instant over anyone has everything going for her. She's different from all the corporate wannabes who think they have to be the "controller" personality. She can completely move a company/corporation without playing the tough girl image. If more women stayed real to themselves, like her, rather than operate as the corporate politician, there is nothing standing in their way. But if their goal is to steamroll over peers on the road to break the glass ceiling they'll move up but it will only take them so far.

 

[mayety]

It was a woman who began the feminist movement--- CIA at that.

In 1972, Gloria Steinem (CIA agent extraordinaire), Patricia Carbine, Letty Cottin Pogrebin and Marlo Thomas founded The Ms. Foundation. [48] Steinem’s social engineering activities led to Roe v. Wade. Pogrebin authored In Defense of the Law of Return for The Nation on December 22, 2003, a law passed in Israel on July 5, 1950 which grants any Jew automatic citizenship. [49] Pogrebin, a Zionist organization working to achieve a comprehensive political settlement to the Arab-Israeli conflict. [51]
financial contributor to Obama since 2004, [50] is a member of Americans for Peace Now (APN) the most prominent American Jewish Gloria Steinem

full article
“By Way of Deception, We Shall do War”
by Deanna Spingola
September 16, 2010

 

[Bcool]

I dunno what each of you really defines as an "independent woman", I think I was (and still am) "Spectacular Woman"! :iconbiggrin: Fer instance, after my two male partners had bombed at all things financial I took that over. Salesmen & bankers were not used to nor keen on dealing with women owner/managers in the seventies. Strewth! Were they not! :roll:
Anyway, I well remember gallumping my wellie booted way into a large boardroom past the protesting secretary, "They're meeting an important client in there, you can't go in there!", scattering a trail of potting soil on my way... Seated at the board room table were three commercial business development bankers, a couple of F.B.D.B. types (Fed. Industrial Bank), a Farm Credit Finance Manager and a couple more suits for ornamental &, I assumed, intimidation purposes. All looking a tad miffed as I'd kept 'em waiting a wee bit. They asked when the owner who managed the finances was going to get there. "She's here," I cheerfully announced and slid three printed out copies of full Financial Forecasts for the next three years to each of them. "Three versions," I explained to the frowning male faces, "one for those of you who feel that a woman cannot run a company that shows us running at a slight loss as the possibility of a potentially good working relationship is nil. One for those of you who feel that the two male owners and partners should be involved in the financial negotiations, that one shows us running at a break even balance. The one that shows us running at a profit is for those of you who feel confident we know what we're doing & worth a half million backing no matter who is managing the finances and sales. All the figures are fact based and not tweaked and the different results are based on how good you are at your jobs and whether I choose to stay with the company or not."
Looong pause, during which the FBDB suit merely glanced at the reports & then said he had full confidence in anyone who could do that with financial forecasts and we had a deal. I wiped the potting soil off my hand (great stuff for the fingernails ladies!) on the butt of my jeans & we shook on it. After which I said I'd leave it with him to draw up the details & we'd negotiate tomorrow as I had to leave to prepare a birthday party for my youngest daughter.
The rest of the suits hadn't said a word!
Is that independence? Or???

 

[GreenFish66]

Women can't continuosly lift 50 Pounds repeatedly in a factory all day long...Without a man offering assistance....

Women rule almost every other sector...Even if their not the Big Boss Man at the top ...Their still the bosses.....Just ask 'em

 

[TenPenny]

Women can't continuosly lift 50 Pounds repeatedly in a factory all day long...Without a man offering assistance....

Women rule almost every other sector...Even if their not the Big Boss Man at the top ...Their still the bosses.....Just ask 'em

Most men can't do that either.

And I'm not sure what your point is - are there any factories that require lifting 50 pounds all day? Unions have pretty much made that obsolete.

 

[GreenFish66]

Is it a falasy to say ..Women seem to be looking for Mens approval to be Equal?

 

[TenPenny]

Is it a falasy to say ..Women seem to be looking for Mens approval to be Equal?

Real women aren't looking for men's approval for anything.

As a partner of hers once said to my wife: some women talk on and on about equality, others, like you, just go ahead and do stuff.

My grandmother got a degree in Library Science in the 1920s. Went to Dalhousie University. She was one of the first women in Canada to lead a Wolf Cub Pack, in the 1930s. Actually mentioned in Northrup Frye's autobiography as an influence. My mother got a degree in Geology in 1948, worked in the Provincial Geologist's office.

Women's equality? I take it as a given, not something to be debated. To my mind, if you're a woman, and you're thinking you're 'not equal', in this day and age, it's because you're not trying. Shut up, and get to work. That's my feeling.

 

[Ariadne]

they want to be paid the same money, be able to do the same jobs and have the same opportunities as men.


Does not mean that they want EVERYTHING that men have.

I know that men don't want EVERYTHING that women have.. I can think of at least 2 things.

Expecting equal pay and opportunity for equal qualifications, knowledge, and skills does not mean that women want to be men.

I don't know about that. The person I have the most respect for and one I'd hire in an instant over anyone has everything going for her. She's different from all the corporate wannabes who think they have to be the "controller" personality. She can completely move a company/corporation without playing the tough girl image. If more women stayed real to themselves, like her, rather than operate as the corporate politician, there is nothing standing in their way. But if their goal is to steamroll over peers on the road to break the glass ceiling they'll move up but it will only take them so far.

I completely agree. The same situation applies to men that steam roll over everyone to get ahead ... some people don't want them in their organization. Women can be effective without being masculine ... or overtly sexualized. Controllers are the most unpleasant people.

 

[JLM]

Expecting equal pay and opportunity for equal qualifications, knowledge, and skills does not mean that women want to be men.



I completely agree. The same situation applies to men that steam roll over everyone to get ahead ... some people don't want them in their organization. Women can be effective without being masculine ... or overtly sexualized. Controllers are the most unpleasant people.

You must be talking about things like the ability to do the job in an organized calm and collected manner. The Unions would never go for that. :lol:

 

[Ariadne]

Unions are another beast altogether. I've worked for two, and I am just disgusted with the amount of control that employees have over their positions.

 

[JLM]

Unions are another beast altogether. I've worked for two, and I am just disgusted with the amount of control that employees have over their positions.

And you just ain't whistlin' Dixie. :lol:

 

[Bcool]

Unions are another beast altogether. I've worked for two, and I am just disgusted with the amount of control that employees have over their positions.

I would guess you never read Studs Terkel or Steinbeck?

 

[Curiosity]

My interpretation of gender equality is that both genders should have equal opportunities and respect.

If a woman, or a man, wants to be a professional, they should be able to (to the extent of their abilities), and their pay should be based on their abilities. If a woman, or a man, wants to be a stay at home parent, that's a family decision, and there should be no disrespect or anything attached to that.

Thanks TenPenny you wrote a better definition than I

That was my intention with "equality" - that the differences among male and female should complement each other rather than try to "be the other".

Many qualities of male and female cross over into talents and traits but basic gender is still a lifetime consideration unless one is determined to change via surgery and years of therapy.

 

[Ariadne]

I would guess you never read Studs Terkel or Steinbeck?

Steinbeck was required reading in high school ... it wasn't so much that I didn't read it, but moreso that it did nothing for me. Steinbeck's message is that women that become independent don't fare well ... so best to be dependent.

 

[Curiosity]

Hm.....found this on another forum which tied in with the topic here (sort of)

Male and female ability differences down to socialisation, not genetics | World news | The Observer


My response

Hmmmmmmmmm the professors protest too loudly

Could it be an incentive to another study on a "gay gene"????

Eleven pages of well written commentary in response however and while I tend to disbelieve what the professors "profess" it is an interesting theory....
still a theory nonetheless.

Nature will err on occasion however one cannot argue the desire - no demand by nature - to propagate the species and guess what:

It takes two opposites - generally speaking.

 

[GreenFish66]

Takes 2 to tango..Equally..

Industry was built by men , on the backs of men ...Those industries still exist ...However thanks to machines ...Hard labour is on a path to the past....In with new Green/Clean Tech ...A present and future that includes everyone ,..Equally...