Ah! But who is the Red King? It is a metaphor, but for who? Is it god or is it our higher Self? Lewis Carroll was known to smoke the hookah pipe and hallucinate like a mad man, so I can relate to Alice cause I been dere.
The Improbability of God
- Thread starter Scott Free
- Start date
Ah! But who is the Red King? It is a metaphor, but for who? Is it god or is it our higher Self? Lewis Carroll was known to smoke the hookah pipe and hallucinate like a mad man, so I can relate to Alice cause I been dere.
Well, in my religion heaven is a state of mind and is right here on Earth. I get to go there (or be here) whenever I want to and it don't cost me nothin'.
This is in the Quran 47: 1-3
الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا وَصَدُّوا عَن سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ أَضَلَّ أَعْمَالَهُمْ . وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ وَآمَنُوا بِمَا نُزِّلَ عَلَى مُحَمَّدٍ وَهُوَ الْحَقُّ مِن رَّبِّهِمْ كَفَّرَ عَنْهُمْ سَيِّئَاتِهِمْ وَأَصْلَحَ بَالَهُمْ . ذَلِكَ بِأَنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا اتَّبَعُوا الْبَاطِلَ وَأَنَّ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا اتَّبَعُوا الْحَقَّ مِن رَّبِّهِمْ كَذَلِكَ يَضْرِبُ اللَّهُ لِلنَّاسِ أَمْثَالَهُمْ
The explanation:
(Those who unbelieve and bar [people] from God's way [: His religion]; God [will] make their works void.
(Those who unbelieve and bar [people] from God's way [: His religion]; God [will] make their works void.
But those who believe [in God alone] and work righteous [deeds] and believe in [the Quran] revealed to Mohammed – and it is the very truth [coming] from their Lord – He concealed their evil acts [from the sight of souls], and improved their condition [into peace and easiness.]
That [is the rewarding of the two parties]:
because the unbelievers follow the falsehood [so they deserve the punishment],
while the believers follow the truth [coming] from their Lord [so they deserve Paradise];
thus does God expound to people their parables.)
thus does God expound to people their parables.)
man-after-death.t35.com
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...or we are not puppets to god(s) and are free to live our own lives as we see fit.
Sure you are Cannuck, buy if you admit to making mistakes, that reflects poorly on your God, so you will be less likely to admit you were wrong than a nonbeliever.
I remember seeing polls which said that Conservatives or Fundamentalists were happier in their marriages than liberals and moderates. How did they arrive at the result? They simply asked the respondents if they were happy.
So from this one may conclude that Fundamentalist marriages are happier than non Fundamentalist marriage. However, statistics do not bear that out; divorce rate among Fundamentalists is higher than that among non Fundamentalists.
Fundamentalists clearly think that it reflects poorly upon their God if they admit to be unhappy in their marriages, while liberals have no such constraint. So Fundamentalists, while really being unhappy, nevertheless claim to be happy, just to prop up their faith. But actions speak louder than words, they get divorced at a higher rate than liberals or moderates.
The surveys which measure happiness, or asking the respondent whether they make mistakes, really don’t mean anything. These are really subjective opinions of the respondents. Objective criteria such as divorce rates, abortion rates (apparently abortion rate among Fundamentalists is pretty high, but it is very hush hush), life expectancy etc. are more objective measures and more realistically describe the lives of individuals.
Neither you nor Vereya may make me deviate me from the word of God, which is better than my words and the words of all creatures. As in the Quran 50: 45
نَحْنُ أَعْلَمُ بِمَا يَقُولُونَ وَمَا أَنتَ عَلَيْهِم بِجَبَّارٍ فَذَكِّرْ بِالْقُرْآنِ مَن يَخَافُ وَعِيدِ
The explanation:
(We are Best Aware of what they say [: denying your apostlehood], and you [Mohammed] are not a tyrant over them,
so admonish with the Quran him who fears the threat [of God, so he will comply to the truth and believe in His messenger.] )
(We are Best Aware of what they say [: denying your apostlehood], and you [Mohammed] are not a tyrant over them,
so admonish with the Quran him who fears the threat [of God, so he will comply to the truth and believe in His messenger.] )
(We are Best Aware of what they say [: denying your apostlehood], and you [Mohammed] are not a tyrant over them,
so admonish with the Quran him who fears the threat [of God, so he will comply to the truth and believe in His messenger.] )
eanassir, sure admonish them with the Quran. And if they don’t obey, hit them on the head with the Koran (followed by a bullet or a bomb). That is how Fundamentalist Islam works.
so admonish with the Quran him who fears the threat [of God, so he will comply to the truth and believe in His messenger.] )
eanassir, sure admonish them with the Quran. And if they don’t obey, hit them on the head with the Koran (followed by a bullet or a bomb). That is how Fundamentalist Islam works.
Cannuck, I did not say that God gives a f*&k if you make a mistake. If God really exists (which I seriously doubt), he probably doesn’t even know that you are alive. I am sure he has got bigger and better things to do than bother about an insignificant race (humans) on an insignificant planet circling an insignificant star in an insignificant galaxy in an insignificant universe (the String Theory postulates literally countless number of universes).
So it is not the God, but her followers who think that if they don’t claim to be the prefect individuals, it may reflect badly on their God. It is not so much what God thinks, but what you (and other followers of God) think. They want to give the impression to the non believers that believers lead the perfect life, free from any mistakes, faults etc. Hence the poll findings that Fundamentalists claim to be happier in their marriages than liberals (but get divorced at a higher rate than the liberals).
So it Is not really what God thinks, but what her followers think.
Nope. I've already said that god doesn't care if I make a mistake so why should I. I'm telling you that I am evidence that your logic is failed. My mistakes have no effect on god nor on any possible relationship she may or may not have to me. You have erred. I understand how difficult it can be for Atheists to admit to a mistake. You need to get over it.
Someone who cannot use their own words cannot because they have not thought their arguments through for themselves.
Since you cannot use your own words.
You have not thought your arguments through.
--------------------------------//--------------------------------
Someone who believes without thinking their belief through is doing so on blind faith or wants (desires, wishes) their belief to be true.
But neither reason means their belief is true.
True belief can only happen if you have thought or can think that belief through for yourself.
If you must rely on someone else's words or belief then you do not truly believe.
A tyrant would not let his followers doubt him.
Since you cannot doubt Mohammad.
He is a tyrant.
God does not exist.
I do not fear things that do not exist.
Therefore I do not fear god.
-----------------------------//-----------------------------
If your god existed I would fear him or he would make me fear him.
I do not fear him but am a happy, healthy and prosperous person.
Therefore your god does not exist.
Yes, I agree Scott, I have no connection to any god, don't think about it at all,
till I read the odd remark on this forum, I don't fear a god either, as I also don't
fear something that isn't.
I am very relieved that I am not stuck in that compartment of life, as it seems
believers in gods are so obedient and make sure they do everything to please their
god, 'or else', and that seems more like an abusive parent, who uses fear as a
weapon to control, so thankfully I am not any part of that in any way.
till I read the odd remark on this forum, I don't fear a god either, as I also don't
fear something that isn't.
I am very relieved that I am not stuck in that compartment of life, as it seems
believers in gods are so obedient and make sure they do everything to please their
god, 'or else', and that seems more like an abusive parent, who uses fear as a
weapon to control, so thankfully I am not any part of that in any way.
With any luck that will stay with you until you are too old to care. Is that your proof that God doesn't exist? We both know our present lives will end so not believing (or believing)doesn't ward that off.
The fearing God isn't what drives believers, nor should it be used as a means to gather new people. As far as I can tell the directive was to make the knowledge about God available to as many as possible and let them choose which direction to go.
At least you don't outright mock God like SJP and others here who are going to be facing a situation very much like these words describe.
Isa:28:17:
Judgment also will I lay to the line,
and righteousness to the plummet:
and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies,
and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.
Isa:28:18:
And your covenant with death shall be disannulled,
and your agreement with hell shall not stand;
when the overflowing scourge shall pass through,
then ye shall be trodden down by it.
Isa:28:19:
From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you:
for morning by morning shall it pass over,
by day and by night:
and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.
Isa:28:20:
For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it:
and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.
Doesn’t’ the Bible say ‘man created God in his own image’ (or is it the other way around)?
That's about as probable an outcome as the probability that god exists. You and eanassir are coming from a very similar place: you've each got this book you believe, on the basis of no evidence but its claims about itself, to be absolutely true and correct. But your books are different, and you each reject the other's as being not the appropriate one to study. Had you grown up in an Islamic culture and eanassir grown up in a Christian culture, almost certainly you'd be behaving the same way you are now, but you'd have switched books.
And there are millions, possibly billions, of other people around the world with other books, or no books, who reject both yours and eanassir's. Religious belief is generally pretty specific to society and culture, and has been throughout human history. Obviously not everybody can be right, and the great variety of religious belief around the world and throughout history is the major clue to the solution: they're all human inventions and have no reality outside the realm of ideas. They're simply attempts to explain the unknown, and the more we learn about how reality really works, the more ludicrous some of their claims appear. Much of the history of the last 400 years in the West can be understood as the Christian church retreating from making empirical claims about the nature of reality in the face of the scientific revolution that began around the time of Galileo.
The religion of one age is the mythology of the next. In other words, every religious believer has it wrong, not only Christians and Muslims, but also Jews, Mormons, Wiccans, Pagans, New Age mystics, unspecified deists and theists of every sort, everybody. It's all mythology. ALL of it.
And there are millions, possibly billions, of other people around the world with other books, or no books, who reject both yours and eanassir's.
That is right, Dexter, and I reject both of them, I have got my own religion.
The religion of one age is the mythology of the next. In other words, every religious believer has it wrong, not only Christians and Muslims,
Now this is where you are wrong. My religion is the only true religion. All the other religions are false, anybody who believes in any other religion than my own is a spawn of the Devil and is headed straight for Hell.
And what is my religion? Well, I won’t keep you in suspense, I did explain my religion in this forum a while ago, I am an Applist.
I was visited by God a while ago and he revealed to me the only true religion, Applism. Applism has only one Commandment; thou shalt eat an apple a day.
Applism is the only true path toward God, toward Salvation. Anybody who does not subscribe to Applism is headed straight for Hell.
Incidentally, I am thinking of starting a Crusade for Applism. Any donations to finance the Crusade will be most appreciated. Please make the Checks payable to Sir Joseph Porter, and send to the following address.
Sir Joseph Porter
C/o Canadian Content Forum.
That is right, Dexter, and I reject both of them, I have got my own religion.
The religion of one age is the mythology of the next. In other words, every religious believer has it wrong, not only Christians and Muslims,
Now this is where you are wrong. My religion is the only true religion. All the other religions are false, anybody who believes in any other religion than my own is a spawn of the Devil and is headed straight for Hell.
And what is my religion? Well, I won’t keep you in suspense, I did explain my religion in this forum a while ago, I am an Applist.
I was visited by God a while ago and he revealed to me the only true religion, Applism. Applism has only one Commandment; thou shalt eat an apple a day.
Applism is the only true path toward God, toward Salvation. Anybody who does not subscribe to Applism is headed straight for Hell.
Incidentally, I am thinking of starting a Crusade for Applism. Any donations to finance the Crusade will be most appreciated. Please make the Checks payable to Sir Joseph Porter, and send to the following address.
Sir Joseph Porter
C/o Canadian Content Forum.
God – be glorified – rebuked some people who do not use their mind and reason, who only imitate their fathers blindly; such people have their faith traditional.
As in the Quran 2: 170
As in the Quran 2: 170
وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمُ اتَّبِعُوا مَا أَنزَلَ اللّهُ قَالُواْ بَلْ نَتَّبِعُ مَا أَلْفَيْنَا عَلَيْهِ آبَاءنَا أَوَلَوْ كَانَ آبَاؤُهُمْ لاَ يَعْقِلُونَ شَيْئاً وَلاَ يَهْتَدُونَ
The explanation:
(When it is said to them, 'Follow that which God has revealed,'
they say, 'No, we will follow such [religion and doctrines] as we found our fathers [holding]'
What! Eventhough their fathers were completely unreasonable and had no guidance?)
(When it is said to them, 'Follow that which God has revealed,'
they say, 'No, we will follow such [religion and doctrines] as we found our fathers [holding]'
What! Eventhough their fathers were completely unreasonable and had no guidance?)
It is rejected that someone thinks for you; therefore when you follow some atheists, specially the druken atheist and quote their words and strive to defend their words; then this is some sort of associating such drukard with God Almighty, and in case you deny God's existence, this indeed, is worse than the association with God or idolatry.
So you follow some men like yourself, and your leaders are atheists and disbelievers, and you quote their words and admire them; so this is your worshipping them and you admire them until you have adored them; while they cannot defend you neither can save themselves from Hell in case they and you keep up on your atheism and God's enmity.
This is in the Quran 2: 165-167
وَلَوْ يَرَى الَّذِينَ ظَلَمُواْ إِذْ يَرَوْنَ الْعَذَابَ أَنَّ الْقُوَّةَ لِلّهِ جَمِيعاً وَأَنَّ اللّهَ شَدِيدُ الْعَذَابِ . إِذْ تَبَرَّأَ الَّذِينَ اتُّبِعُواْ مِنَ الَّذِينَ اتَّبَعُواْ وَرَأَوُاْ الْعَذَابَ وَتَقَطَّعَتْ بِهِمُ الأَسْبَابُ . وَقَالَ الَّذِينَ اتَّبَعُواْ لَوْ أَنَّ لَنَا كَرَّةً فَنَتَبَرَّأَ مِنْهُمْ كَمَا تَبَرَّؤُواْ مِنَّا كَذَلِكَ يُرِيهِمُ اللّهُ أَعْمَالَهُمْ حَسَرَاتٍ عَلَيْهِمْ وَمَا هُم بِخَارِجِينَ مِنَ النَّارِ
The explanation:
(Oh, if evil-doers see [their friends, the polytheists, who died before them], when they saw the chastisement [in the world of spirits, then they will know] the power altogether belongs to God, and that God is Severe at chastising.
[On the day] when [leaders] who were followed shall disown [their] followers, and they [shall] see the doom, and all their efforts [to be saved of the torment] shall collapse with them.
And followers will say: 'If a return were possible for us, we would disown them even as have they disowned us.' Likewise, God will show them their deeds as [nothing but] regrets, nor will they get out of the Fire.)
(Oh, if evil-doers see [their friends, the polytheists, who died before them], when they saw the chastisement [in the world of spirits, then they will know] the power altogether belongs to God, and that God is Severe at chastising.
[On the day] when [leaders] who were followed shall disown [their] followers, and they [shall] see the doom, and all their efforts [to be saved of the torment] shall collapse with them.
And followers will say: 'If a return were possible for us, we would disown them even as have they disowned us.' Likewise, God will show them their deeds as [nothing but] regrets, nor will they get out of the Fire.)
This is your fallacy and cheating yourself and others; is Mohammed now present with us so that he may prevent me from doubting about him!?
This is your asserting of some words, which does not mean that your are correct.
God – be glorified – said in the Quran 31: 23-24
وَمَن كَفَرَ فَلَا يَحْزُنكَ كُفْرُهُ إِلَيْنَا مَرْجِعُهُمْ فَنُنَبِّئُهُم بِمَا عَمِلُوا إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَلِيمٌ بِذَاتِ الصُّدُورِ . نُمَتِّعُهُمْ قَلِيلًا ثُمَّ نَضْطَرُّهُمْ إِلَى عَذَابٍ غَلِيظٍ
The explanation:
(But whosoever unbelieves, then let not his unbelief grieve you [Mohammed]; [for] they will return to Us [after death] and We shall acquaint them about what they did; God is All-Knowing about [the secrets] of hearts.
We let them enjoy [themselves with wealth and children in the life of the World] for a little [time], then We shall compel them [in the Hereafter] to rigorous doom.)
man-after-death.t35.com
(But whosoever unbelieves, then let not his unbelief grieve you [Mohammed]; [for] they will return to Us [after death] and We shall acquaint them about what they did; God is All-Knowing about [the secrets] of hearts.
We let them enjoy [themselves with wealth and children in the life of the World] for a little [time], then We shall compel them [in the Hereafter] to rigorous doom.)
man-after-death.t35.com