The Improbability of God

[Spade]

SJP,
You're up early on Woden'sday!
Gods are fighting in your neck of the woods? Can't sleep?
I figure Norse gods are as good as any to illustrate the futility of religious zealotry!

 

[eanassir]

Spade,

god is any one of the 2600 or none at all. But the old gods were a hell of a lot more interesting than the war god of the desert! Most of the old gods were a little psychotic but not sociopaths.

This is called the polytheism: associating idols and other beings or objects together with God Almighty.

God is Eternal; many peoples and nations in the past and the present worshipped – apart from God – others besides Him.

This is in the Quran 12: 37-40 about what Prophet Joseph son of Jacob said to his companions in the prison:​

ذَلِكُمَا مِمَّا عَلَّمَنِي رَبِّي إِنِّي تَرَكْتُ مِلَّةَ قَوْمٍ لاَّ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللّهِ وَهُم بِالآخِرَةِ هُمْ كَافِرُونَ . وَاتَّبَعْتُ مِلَّةَ آبَآئِـي إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْحَقَ وَيَعْقُوبَ مَا كَانَ لَنَا أَن نُّشْرِكَ بِاللّهِ مِن شَيْءٍ ذَلِكَ مِن فَضْلِ اللّهِ عَلَيْنَا وَعَلَى النَّاسِ وَلَـكِنَّ أَكْثَرَ النَّاسِ لاَ يَشْكُرُونَ . يَا صَاحِبَيِ السِّجْنِ أَأَرْبَابٌ مُّتَفَرِّقُونَ خَيْرٌ أَمِ اللّهُ الْوَاحِدُ الْقَهَّارُ . مَا تَعْبُدُونَ مِن دُونِهِ إِلاَّ أَسْمَاء سَمَّيْتُمُوهَا أَنتُمْ وَآبَآؤُكُم مَّا أَنزَلَ اللّهُ بِهَا مِن سُلْطَانٍ إِنِ الْحُكْمُ إِلاَّ لِلّهِ أَمَرَ أَلاَّ تَعْبُدُواْ إِلاَّ إِيَّاهُ ذَلِكَ الدِّينُ الْقَيِّمُ وَلَـكِنَّ أَكْثَرَ النَّاسِ لاَ يَعْلَمُونَ

The explanation:
(Such [knowledge of the dream interpretation] is some of that my Lord has acquainted me with.
I have forsaken the religion of a folk who believe not in God [alone] and [moreover] of the Hereafter they are deniers."

"And I have followed the religion of my fathers: Abraham, Isaac and Jacob; we ought not to associate anything with God; that is [some] of God's bounty to us and to people, but most of people give no thanks."

"O my two fellow-prisoners, which is better: many differing lords or God: the One, the Omnipotent?"

"Apart from Him, you worship none other than names you have named, you and your fathers, concerning which God has not sent down any authority.
The decision is up to God only.
He has commanded that none other than He should be worshipped.
That is the religion of [Jacob] the guardian, but most of people do not know [the truth.]")


quranandhebrewbible.t35.com​

 

[eanassir]

I think we should rename this thread The Improbability of Eanassir. It seems a little unreal to me that he/she/it is a real person. judging by the nature and bent of his/her/its posts, that it is more likely that we are dealing with an automaton or a robot programed cut and paste the Koran ad nausium. A being incapable of free thought, that only parrots what others have declared the truth, without question, is not firing on all cylenders.

Read carefully the words of the drunkard atheist, and ask him for evidence to each of his sentences​

I here invite all readers to read the first post of this thread, which is the quotation of the drunkard atheist words.​

I say read it line by line, then after each line ask the drunkard journalist: How did you know this is true?​

Then see what probabilities he said: like "it could be one in trillion times a wing may be formed, or it could be one in billion times that an eye may be formed …etc"​

Then ask such atheists: "If you want to buy a car or an electric set, and an expert says to you: 'This car is 99.99999% bad and almost it will not work', will you buy it for a probability of only 0.00001% that it may be good?​

So they denied their Lord the Creator for such probabilities of one in trillion, and left the probability of 99.999999999% that there is the Creator.​

While to me I am certain 100% about my Lord the Creator Almighty.​

The others may submit themselves to their Creator willingly, or will submit by force when they will die, and see the angels of death capturing the putrid souls of the disbelievers and drive them forcibly to the fire of volcanoes inside the earth core.​

As in the Quran 3: 83​

أَفَغَيْرَ دِينِ اللّهِ يَبْغُونَ وَلَهُ أَسْلَمَ مَن فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالأَرْضِ طَوْعًا وَكَرْهًا وَإِلَيْهِ يُرْجَعُونَ​

The explanation:
(What [religion] other than God's religion is that these [Jews and Christians] crave, ​

when to Him is resigned whosoever is in the heavens and the earth [: the planets including the earth], willingly or loath, ​

and to His [judgment] shall they return [after death]!?)​

man-after-death.t35.com​

 

[Scott Free]

Dawkins is not a drunkard eanassir, what a preposterous lie that is!

Did Mohammad tell you to make sh!t up too, like he did?

You see, when you say Dawkins is a drunk you're a lier.

When I say Mohammad was a paedophile I am speaking the truth because he screwed a child.

See the difference?

 

[GreenFish66]

Without getting into this too much ..I would say I believe.Not religiously ,but I call ITt (God)..Whatever it is we humans have tapped into ..Whether ITt knows we're here or not.Not sure..But certain There is something outthere!..I beleieve in something greater than myself...I respect my neighbors and have faith in our, and the earths future..

But even simpler.....If the debate is ..There probably isn't a God vs There is...God wins ,with the conclusion being ..There More is likely than not!(game theory)...

P.E.U...Person /Earth/Universe
...

"Animals-Angels"..Based on noam chomsky's quote...

There are many different ways you could look at this "Huge" question..An almost infinite # of ways .History of Religion being only one...God has evolved since religion .Time to get with the times!!....

I love science .Primarily theoretical science...Unifying theories are full of amazing possibilities to imagine...I implore people to explore all the options..Quite confident that in the end of the day ..All believe in some way

Believe in God..Hell Yes...Too negative to say no..ITt'll Zap ya if your not careful.!lol...Ensures a Far safer.happier future..

There No need to fear God..He has a great sense of humour...

Save yourself. Self savior..

Over and out there from here

B.GreenFish66

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Dawkins is not a drunkard eanassir, what a preposterous lie that is!

I braced him on that earlier in the thread too, and his response indicates he thinks Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens are the same person. The references he offered as proof of his contentions were about Hitchens.

 

[eanassir]

Dawkins is not a drunkard eanassir, what a preposterous lie that is!

The drunkard atheist in the wikipedia:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Hitchens#Use_of_alcohol ​

["Hitchens is known for his love of cigarettes and alcohol -- and his prodigious literary output."[90] However in early 2008 he claimed to have given up smoking, undergoing an epiphany at Madison, Wisconsin. [91] Hitchens admits to drinking heavily; in 2003 he wrote that his daily intake of alcohol was enough "to kill or stun the average mule."]​

 

[Dexter Sinister]

There he goes again. The OP is Dawkins, eanassir, not Hitchens.

 

[Scott Free]

But even simpler.....If the debate is ..There probably isn't a God vs There is...God wins ,with the conclusion being ..There More is likely than not!(game theory)...

Actually this is wrong. There is so much ascribed to god - so many attributes and powers etc., that there is very little probability any such thing exists. By little I mean very very little.

I'm not sure where you get your game theory idea from. Do you have a link? I suspect you read something from some religionist lier like eanassir who will make any claim to suit his fallacies.

"Animals-Angels"..Based on noam chomsky's quote...

Chomsky is no doubt a great thinker but he is also a theist and believes in manifest destiny without evidence. Caution should be employed when reading his schlock.

Believe in God..Hell Yes...Too negative to say no..

How so?

You said that a god may not even know who we are. Then what would be the difference if he existed vs not? How is that less negative?

Also I would challenge you to read some history and discover how religion has been used as an excuse to slaughter people and used to empower people to slaughter. Religion is a vile and disgusting affair and I fail to see how it could be framed as anything but the most negative human invention.

Also you say that god may be developing too. If that is the case then I would warn you that it isn't god you're talking about.

If by something greater you mean the universe on whole and by developing you mean its unfoldment then, again, I would say that isn't god your talking about.

These arguments you have given are typical of wish thinking where you can fish around and try and develop a definition acceptable to yourself and maybe others. It is reminiscent of a psychic and their "cold readings" where they hunt through an audience with generalities until someone too dizzy to notice decides to play the game.

 

[Scott Free]

I braced him on that earlier in the thread too, and his response indicates he thinks Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens are the same person. The references he offered as proof of his contentions were about Hitchens.

What hope does he have if he can't even get this little bit straight?

I read an article that premised the idea that people might be prone to religion because we evolved to it. So that some of us can see through it many others, maybe even most, can't and may not even have the capacity. The idea has to do with sexual selection wherein it is easier to find a mate, presumably because being gullible makes one more attractive somehow, if you embrace wish thinking, an absurdly open mind and throw reason out the door. I have no idea if any of this is true or not but on the face of it there does seem to be more than a germ of truth in it. I really hope not because this might very well mean then that we have evolved our way to destruction. The means for us to annihilate ourselves was created by people more brilliant than those I described above but the perverbial button seems to be firmly in the hands of nuts like eanassir. It's a very scary thought I think.

 

[petros]

The Zohar with Adam Chandler? Only seen the preview so far, is it out in DVD yet?
I believe it has an Israeli theme as a background kinda thing, is your reference similar?

No this one had Heston playing Daath Vader.

The narratives of the doctrine are its cloak.

The simple only look at the garment that is, upon the narrative of the doctrine;
more they know not.

The instructed ,however, see not merely the cloak, but what the cloak covers.

The Zohar

Starring Chuck Heston as Daath Vader?

Sound more like Yoda than Daath doesn't it?


Or there is this guy Hey Zeus:

Matthew 7:13-14

13"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

But alas the New International Version mistranslated (was it deliberate?) this line which should read "14But STRAIT is the gate and narrow the road

strait means rough or troublesome and not the straight and narrow that we've been misinformed about.

Therefore what Hey Zeus was saying is getting to heaven (enlightenment) is a rough hard journey with the path being hard to find and getting to heaven for the very very select and observant few.

Bon Chance!!!

 

[Cliffy]

Matthew 7:13-14

13"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.


And that to me summarizes that religion is the broad road to destruction. The search for truth in one's life is a personal journey - a narrow road. That road is for you only and the truths you find are only relevant to you. Where you end up will always be different than the other. There are no universal truths, there is no one god. There is only our personal higher power, whatever that turns out to be for the individual with the strength to take that journey.

 

[petros]

SJP,
You're up early on Woden'sday!
Gods are fighting in your neck of the woods? Can't sleep?
I figure Norse gods are as good as any to illustrate the futility of religious zealotry!

Ahhh now it makes sense and should really be a bumpersticker

"Get a Wodie and have a great hump day"

 

[petros]

Matthew 7:13-14

13"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.


And that to me summarizes that religion is the broad road to destruction. The search for truth in one's life is a personal journey - a narrow road. That road is for you only and the truths you find are only relevant to you. Where you end up will always be different than the other. There are no universal truths, there is no one god. There is only our personal higher power, whatever that turns out to be for the individual with the strength to take that journey.

Yup it's all about personal enlightenment and altruism. Nothing more nothing less.

 

[MHz]

Actually this is wrong. There is so much ascribed to god - so many attributes and powers etc., that there is very little probability any such thing exists. By little I mean very very little.

We can be Lawyers, or Bakers, or woodworkers but we are only really good at it if we do just one or at least one at a time. Since it is said God could do all that and more all at the same time in a perfect way the concept has to be false because you have decided it can't be done.

You said that a god may not even know who we are. Then what would be the difference if he existed vs not? How is that less negative?

If God covers a subject it should at least be acknowledged, in this case does God know anything about us. You don't have to believe it to acknowledge that God says this about Himself. If He knows this it might be rightfully assumed He knows even more about us than this tidbit.

M't:10:30:
But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.

We know approximately how many stars are out there, God is said to know each and every name of every star on top of the knowledge of us and things alive that are even smaller than us. On top of that He never has to go and refresh His memory. Anything less is not God, that only touches on knowledge once the moving of things comes into play the list is increased.

Also I would challenge you to read some history and discover how religion has been used as an excuse to slaughter people and used to empower people to slaughter. Religion is a vile and disgusting affair and I fail to see how it could be framed as anything but the most negative human invention.

Why can the conflicts and battles and murders that have resulted in material gain for the aggressor be subtracted from the list that puts their cause under the title of religious. ie Christians kill all the people in a 'new area for them' because they want the land and resources all for themselves and blame it on them being ungodly heathens who could not be converted.

These arguments you have given are typical of wish thinking where you can fish around and try and develop a definition acceptable to yourself and maybe others. It is reminiscent of a psychic and their "cold readings" where they hunt through an audience with generalities until someone too dizzy to notice decides to play the game.

By your own previous words you have some sort of qualifications that must be met before God is a possible answer. (that you believe there is nobody who meets all those qualifications is neither here nor there) The more literal you make Scripture the higher the bar for being able to rightfully claim that title (in your case if it ever is). Having a seemingly impossible to fulfill list is actually protection from being sucked into 'worshiping' something that is less than perfect.

 

[Cliffy]

Yup it's all about personal enlightenment and altruism. Nothing more nothing less.

Hi petros,
Hope you got your Wodie today. Don't hump too much though. Eanassir says it causes cancer.

 

[Cliffy]

All one has to do is look at humans and what they have done to their life support system and you cannot avoid the conclusion that god was a dithering idiot.

 

[petros]

Hi petros,
Hope you got your Wodie today. Don't hump too much though. Eanassir says it causes cancer.

Cancer? Ha! More like Libra I say!

 

[petros]

All one has to do is look at humans and what they have done to their life support system and you cannot avoid the conclusion that god was a dithering idiot.

Or that God is really Vishnu, a destroyer of worlds.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

SJP,
You're up early on Woden'sday!
Gods are fighting in your neck of the woods? Can't sleep?
I figure Norse gods are as good as any to illustrate the futility of religious zealotry!

I had to visit a client, Spade. So I posted a hurried post and left.