The Hezbollah, Facts and Fictions...

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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Yet you defend the Hezbolla and the Hamas?

That is interesting, your is sellective then?

I'm not defending Hezbollah or Hamas. I'm trying to explain why millions of Israel's neighbors are angry with Israel.

Neither side occupies moral or ethical high ground. Both sides have committed atrocities. If you think Israel occupies the moral high ground here, then you cannot know the suffering Israel has caused. I blame our news which always reports the occasional atrocities committed against Israelis and usually ignores the daily atrocities committed by Israelis... except when it crosses a new line.

Shrouded in silence
November 8, 2006

Last night, 18 people were killed in the Israeli bombing on Beit Hanoun, most of them women and children. The town in north Gaza has been swamped with blood for more than 10 days now, but this was the highest death toll for one night so far. The Israeli government seems to want to ensure that every child to survive the blitz on Beit Hanoun will want to be a suicide bomber when he or she grows up. It also seems to want to ensure that not that many children in Beit Hanoun will ever grow up...
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/daphna_baram/2006/11/do_not_keep_quiet.html
Please take the time to follow the linksI posted above. At a minimum read Benny Morris' interview. I'll post it again:

http://www.logosjournal.com/morris.htm

That interview explains how this mess started.

Canadians should be informed about why this war exists and what is really going on. I wish no one ill will here.

I have to go. But thanks for taking the time to consider what I wrote as I have considered what you wrote.
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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I'm not defending Hezbollah or Hamas. I'm trying to explain why millions of Israel's neighbors are angry with Israel.

Neither side occupies moral or ethical high ground. Both sides have committed atrocities. If you think Israel occupies the moral high ground here, then you cannot know the suffering Israel has caused. I blame our news which always reports the occasional atrocities committed against Israelis and usually ignores the daily atrocities committed by Israelis... except when it crosses a new line.


Please take the time to follow the linksI posted above. At a minimum read Benny Morris' interview. I'll post it again:

http://www.logosjournal.com/morris.htm

That interview explains how this mess started.

Canadians should be informed about why this war exists and what is really going on. I wish no one ill will here.

I have to go. But thanks for taking the time to consider what I wrote as I have considered what you wrote.
Ok, firstly, I said I have read Ben morris.

Secondly, the first thing I do when I follow a link to info, is look for sources or supporting documentation.

The news story, as true as it may be, has one supporting link. It took my to another story on the same topic, and yet no source or supporting information.

It is a completely one sided piece, if it has no source or support. Or it coulld just be false. I can not tell. There may be under lying factors. Were there rockets fired into Israel from there? Was there a military target and a stray bomb missed? I have no idea. There is no supporting data.

That is my biggest problem with the links suplied by the "other" side in this arguement. All the links I provide have source information, followable links to supporting information and varifiable proof of the contents of the story. Yet my information is propoganda, but I should accept yours or Questions on faith?

I think NOT.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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OK how about Amnesty International? Are they reliable and objective enough?

Amnesty International

With more than 40 years work behind it, Amnesty International strives to promote human rights around the world. It has nearly 2 million members, chapters in more than 60 countries, and supporters and donors from more than 100 countries. Having won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1977, the organization continues to campaign against such things as torture, the death penalty, and other human rights violations...

http://www.answers.com/topic/amnesty-international

Nobel Peace Prize good enough credentials?

Here is there take on Israel/Palestine:

Israel and the Occupied Territories: An ongoing human rights crisis

There appears to be no end in sight to the human rights crisis which has been unfolding in the context of the Palestinian uprising (known as the al-Aqsa intifada) against Israeli occupation, which started on 29 September 2000.

http://web.amnesty.org/pages/testMore than 2,000 Palestinians have been killed, most of them unlawfully, by the Israeli Defence Forces (IDF), who routinely use F16 fighter jets, helicopter gunships and tanks to bomb and shell densely populated Palestinian residential areas. The victims included some 380 children . Some 100 individuals have been killed in targeted state assassinations. In the course of such attacks, the IDF and security services have killed scores and injured hundreds of other men, women and children bystanders.

In the same period Palestinian armed groups have killed some 750 Israelis, more than 500 of them civilians, including some 90 children. The victims were killed in deliberate attacks, including frequent suicide bombings in buses, restaurants and other places, which specifically targeted families and other civilians.

Thousands of other Palestinians and Israelis have been injured, many maimed for life.

Thousands of Palestinians, hundreds of them children, have been arbitrarily detained in mass arrests. Most have been released without charge and often without having been questioned. Ill-treatment of detainees has become once again widespread during arrest and interrogation and some have been tortured. Some 800 Palestinians are held in administrative detention without charge or trial, on the basis of "secret evidence", which neither they nor their lawyers are allowed to see or challenge in court. Most detainees cannot receive family visits because of the closures preventing movement of Palestinians in the Occupied Territories. Dozens of Israelis have been imprisoned as prisoners of conscience for refusing to perform military service or to serve in the Occupied Territories.

Scores of Palestinians suspected of having assisted Israeli intelligence services in killing wanted Palestinians have been unlawfully killed by Palestinian armed groups. The Palestinian Authority (PA) has failed to investigate such cases and to bring the perpetrators to justice. The systematic bombings and destruction of PA security installations, including prisons, and administration buildings has undermined the PA’s capability and its apparent unwillingness to take effective measures to stop and prevent attacks by armed Palestinian groups on Israeli civilians and to ensure respect for the rule of law.

Since the beginning of the intifada, the IDF has destroyed more than 3,000 homes and damaged thousands more, as well as large areas of agricultural land and other public and private properties, and water and electricity infrastructure in both urban and rural areas. As a result thousands of Palestinians have been made homeless, many of them children, and tens of thousands have lost their main or sole source of income.

Since the IDF retook control earlier this year of most areas under the jurisdiction of the PA, it has imposed comprehensive and prolonged closures and curfews on an unprecedented scale throughout the Occupied Territories. Most Palestinian towns and villages have been cut off from one another and from surrounding villages for most of this year, and prolonged curfews continue to be imposed on the major population centres and elsewhere. These sweeping measures of collective punishment affect millions of Palestinians, whose access to work, education and medical care has continued to be denied or severely restricted. This has resulted in the overall collapse of the Palestinian economy. Unemployment has spiralled and about half of the Palestinian population is now living under the poverty line

The restrictions on movements in the Occupied Territories are making it increasingly difficult for Palestinian, Israeli and international human rights and humanitarian NGOs to operate and to carry out their work of documenting and acting against human rights violations and bringing relief to the victims.

Concerns about the continuously worsening situation are regularly expressed by world leaders, the United Nations (UN), the European Community (EU), the Arab League and others. “Peace and security” are the recurring keywords of the various political initiatives which have been put forward - while human rights are rarely mentioned, if at all. AI has repeatedly called for human rights to be placed at the heart of any negotiation or peace talks. Yet, no concrete measures have been taken by the international community to ensure that the concerned parties in this conflict live up to their obligations and their stated commitments to human rights.

In this respect the international community has failed the Palestinian and Israeli victims, whose human rights have been neglected in the pursuit of a “peace and security” formula which, if achieved, cannot be durable unless based on respect for the fundamental human rights of all. As the situation continues to worsen the need for steps to be taken becomes more pressing. AI has repeatedly called for international human rights monitors to be sent to Israel and the Occupied Territories. The call has been echoed by Palestinian, Israeli and international NGOs and has been widely supported at the international level, including by the UN and EU, but the international community has failed to act in the face of Israel's rejection of the proposal. AI does not claim that human rights observers can bring the solution to all the problems in this complex situation. However, the presence of international monitors could contribute to saving Palestinian and Israeli lives. It is not too late to make amends for past failures.

http://web.amnesty.org/pages/IOT_home







I see nothing here which makes me want to support one side or the other.
 

gopher

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Jun 26, 2005
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Israel has the high moral and ethical ground


HAHAHA!!!!



Somebody needs to do some homework. Here's where to start:


 

Colpy

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Nov 5, 2005
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Saint John, N.B.
Check out this source!

Of the more than 800,000 Arabs who lived in Israeli-held territory before 1948, only about 170,000 remained. The rest became refugees in the surrounding Arab countries, ending the Arab majority in the Jewish state.
http://www.palestinehistory.com/history/brief/brief.htm



Okay.

the Israeli, you guys claim, are commiting genocide......

Well, according to my sources, the Israelis drove 800,000 Arab Palestinians from Israel in 1948, leaving only 170,000.

BUT now there are 2.5 MILLION Arab refugees in the camps, and the Arab population of Israel is 1.3 MILLION.

Geez, these Israelis ain't real good at this genocide thing, are they?

Meanwhile, Hezbollah and Hamas continue to encourage the murder of ALL Jews, brainwashing their children to consider Jews sub-human, and encouraging them to attack in suicide bombings.

If you folks weren't so absolutely devoid of anything remotely resembling a brain, or a moral compas, this would be funny.

As it is, it is just sickening.

You guys would have made good SA members in the 30s.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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Hezbollah talks about murdering Jews, but for the most part isn't that effective.

Israel on the other hand actually does carry out wholesale massacres of innocent civilians.

Which speaks louder, actions or words?

Here is an example of a typical week in Gaza:

This Week in Palestine, a service of the International Middle East Media Center, www.imemc.org, for October 27th through November 2nd, 2006.

Israeli troops kill 34 Palestinians in the Gaza Strip as negotiations over a prisoner exchange drag on with no apparent progress, meanwhile, Palestinian resistance fighters continue to fire home-made Qassam shells at Sderot. Efforts on forming a Palestinian national unity government are still ongoing. These stories and more, coming up. Stay tuned.

Weekly Peaceful actions in the West Bank
Let's begin our weekly report with this week’s peaceful actions against the annexation Wall and other stories in the West Bank

Bil’in
Friday afternoon's weekly peaceful protest at Bil'in ended once again with one demonstrator in hospital after being shot by the Israeli military. A member of a French solidarity group known as Jose was shot in the wrist after the demonstration had dispersed. Eyewitnesses report that Jose was standing over 50 meters away from a group of stone-throwing youth, when he was directly hit with live ammunition. He is currently receiving treatment at Shiekh Zaid hospital in Ramallah.

Bil'in villagers had earlier been joined by international and Israeli supporters as they marched to the illegal apartheid wall, which has now annexed over 50% of lands owned by the village. At this time of the olive harvest, farmers from the village, accompanied by a throng of colorful protestors, marched to the gate in the fence and demanded to be allowed to access their olive groves. Despite being prevented from reaching their fields, and the soldier's heavy use of tear gas, the protest passed peacefully until soldiers attacked the group, shooting sound grenades, rubber bullets and live ammunition while facing resistance from the youths of the village. Two children, Amjad and Amer, were hit in the shoulder by rubber bullets.

Al-Khader
At around 3:00pm this afternoon, a non-violent demonstration took place at the tunnel checkpoint on route 60. In order to highlight the desperate plight of Palestinian farmers, whose olive groves are rapidly being rendered inaccessible by the advancing annexation wall, around sixty Palestinian, International and Israeli activists marched carrying olive tree branches, baskets of olives and gallons of olive oil from Al Khader to the checkpoint and dumped what they carried on the road, halting traffic for over an hour.

Israeli security forces reacted aggressively towards the protesters, wielding batons, beating up participants and behaving violently while arresting five demonstrators. One Palestinian man was moderately injured as Police-men attempted to force him into a jeep, however medics managed to put him into the ambulance and took him to the hospital.

Lora, an American activist, describes the demonstration
<actuality 14 sec)
And on the soldiers’ brutality, Lora added,
<Actuality 17 sec>
At least five, one Palestinian and four Israelis were arrested in the protest and were taken to unknown location.

Attacks on the Gaza Strip
Death toll since June reaches 344 as Israel launches deadliest attack since beginning "Operation: Summer Rain"

Israeli troops have killed 34 Palestinians in the town of Beit Hanoun in northern Gaza, during a two-day attack, dubbed "Operation: Autumn Clouds.” At least 100 people have been injured, 15 critically, making it the most deadly attack on Gaza since the Israeli military began its operation “Summer Rain” in late June. Israeli military officials called the attack an act of self-defense, citing the homemade shells launched by Palestinian militias into Israeli territories. Both Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and Prime Minister Ismael Haniyeh have called the offensive in Beit Hanoun "a massacre".

In the meantime, Palestinian resistance fighters continued to fire home-made Qassam shells at the Israeli town of Sderot, however, no injuries have been reported.

On Friday morning, four resistance fighters of the Al-Qassam Brigades, the armed wing of Hamas, were killed in an Israeli air strike at dawn. At least two missiles were shot at their vehicles in the Al-Sheja'iyah neighborhood in Gaza.
A further two residents, including a woman, were killed by the Israel army in Beit Hanoun. The woman was killed in a peaceful demonstration organized by the women of Beit Hanoun to protest against the ongoing Israeli military offensive. Troops opened fire randomly toward the demonstrators, without facing any life-threatening circumstances.

Army surrounded and opened fire at the hospital in the city and demanded the doctors to give them a list of all the wounded being treated in the hospital. The hospital suffers a serious shortage of some medical supplies and blood.
Dr. Jameel Suleiman of Beit Hanoun hospital.
<Actuality 35 sec>
“They asked us to give them a list of the names and identity numbers of all the employees and doctors in the hospital and all the patients as well. We tried twice to move some patients out of the hospital for treatment, however the army refused to allow us despite the fact that there was a coordination with the District Coordination Office. So, we had to operate on the patients in Beit Hanoun hospital despite the lack of equipment and blood in addition to the fact that the medical teams have been working for almost 48 hours nonstop.”
Many of the dead and wounded were civilians, as the army attacked mostly residential areas. We interviewed Ahmad Hamdan from Beit Hanoun about the situation on Wednesday.
<Actuality 27 sec>

“As I am talking you, I can hear the sound of the bullets from different places, in addition, the town is completely surrounded until this moment, six have been killed. I have seen at least one of those killed and he was an unarmed civilian who was shot while standing in front of his house. The ambulance arrived 15 minutes after he was shot, but found him dead.”

Rafah Crossing Point opens for two days, 2000 pass through
Some 2000 people crammed through Rafah Crossing Point when the Israeli military allowed the checkpoint to open for two days. Many had been stranded for weeks on either side of the border.

Aid worker kidnapped, released unharmed
Also this week in Gaza, a Spanish aid worker named Roberto Vila Sexto was kidnapped in Deir Al Balah, in the central Gaza Strip, by a previously unknown Palestinian armed group. He was released shortly after, unharmed. Vila Sexto had been working with Cooperation for Peace, which works closely with the International Red Cross.

Attacks on the West Bank
80 abducted in Israeli invasions
The Israeli military invaded West Bank cities and towns 45 times this week, abducting 80 residents including four children.

On Friday at dawn, the Israeli army, reinforced by at least fifteen armored vehicles and military bulldozers invaded the West Bank city of Bethlehem and broke into several homes. Troops clashed with resistance fighters in a neighbourhood of the city, firing rounds of live ammunition at the residents who gathered, while the soldiers surrounded one of the buildings of the neighborhood. 17-year-old Abdul Kareem Obaiyat was killed and several others were wounded, including a 70-year-old woman and a 13-year-old boy. The woman is still in critical situation and the boy was declared dead on arrival at Beit Jala hospital.

Troops later surrounded the Beit Jala hospital in attempt to arrest some of the wounded. As we broadcast this news, troops have just invaded the hospital. Check our website, [URL="http://www.imemc.org"]www.imemc.org[/URL], for the latest update on this breaking news.

In a separate event, a fifteen year old child was killed and his 28 year old brother was injured today, when an Israeli army under cover unit invaded the West Bank refugee camp of Balata, outside Nablus, and occupied several homes, turning them into sniper posts.

Israeli forces also invaded the West Bank city of Ramallah and kidnapped the Palestinian Minister of Housing and Labor, Abed Al Rahman Zeidan, from his home in the city.

The Israeli army have previously kidnapped six Palestinian ministers; five of whom were recently released, including the deputy Prime Minister, Nasser Al Din Al Shaer, who was released at the end of September. Israel has captured at least 40 Palestinian legislators, including Dr. Aziz Dweik, speaker of the Parliament.

Olive harvest continues, despite constant settler attacks
In the second week of the olive harvest, Israeli settlers continued to assault Palestinian farmers working in their orchards. Unrelenting, farmers continued the harvest. In the orchards near Hebron, 90 volunteers, including 20 internationals, accompanied the farmers to their fields, to deter settler attacks from the nearby Asfer settlement. The effort enabled many to farm with a sense of increased safety; however some farmers were still prohibited from reaching their lands by the settlers.

In another incident, Israeli settlers from the Allon Moreh settlement near Nablus, attacked farmers in the nearby village of Azmut, injuring six farmers. Israeli soldiers present at the scene did not intervene.

Hamas Heads to Cairo for Negotiations
Cairo has received a delegation from the Hamas movement, headed by Imad Al-Alami to discuss the release of the Israeli soldier and the formation of a national unity government.

Possible prisoner swap negotiated
Media sources in Cairo reported progress on the potential prisoner exchange between Hamas and Israel under Egyptian meditation. Papers reported that Hamas agreed to release the Israeli soldier in exchange for the release of Palestinian women and children, as well as prisoners who have spent over 20 years in Israeli jails.

National unity as leaders of factions agree to ceasefire
And following months of negotiations, Hamas approved the formation of a national unity government of technocrats that would also include other factions.
Palestinian Minister of information Dr. Yousef Rizqa accused Israel of foiling attempts to form a national unity government.
<Actuality 43 sec>
“Historically, there is a strange phenomenon that is worth thinking about and studying regarding the Israeli way of thinking. Every time, Palestinian are near to solving their internal conflicts, whether regarding the formation of a national unity government or the national agreement document written by the Palestinian prisoners, or when President Mahmoud Abbas and Prime Minister Ismael Haniyeh come together, Israel escalates the military attacks and causes all these efforts to collapse. Israel is not interested to see the Palestinians united on any level.”
Meanwhile, head of the National Initiative, legislator Dr. Mustafa Al-Barghouthi, met with Prime Minister Ismael Haniyeh in Gaza, to strategize on overcoming the rifts between Hamas and Fatah. Leaders of Fatah, Hamas and other Palestinian factions later held a meeting in Gaza, during which they agreed to end all aggressive displays of weapons and relieving the tension between the two factions.

Clashes between supporters of the two factions in the last few weeks have left 20 dead.

Update on the Financial Crisis
A financial report has been issued by the International Monetary Fund, highlighting the economic effects of the sanctions imposed on the Palestinian government for the better part of a year. The Israeli government is currently holding at least $600 million in tax revenues that rightfully belong to the Palestinian government.

On Thursday, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas met with American envoys David Welch and Elliot Abrams.

During the meeting, which was held in Abbas' office in the West Bank city of Ramallah, they discussed the ongoing Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip, that has so far claimed the lives of 34 Palestinians and injured over a hundred. In addition, Abbas demanded that the American diplomats must pressure the Israeli government to release hundreds of millions of US Dollars of Palestinian tax revenues it is withholding, which if paid, will cover most of the overdue salaries of unpaid governmental employees.

Palestinian Minister of Finance and Planning, Dr. Sameer Abu Aisha, promised to pay a portion of the salaries of those civil servants whose salary is less than $300. The payment will be covered by the “temporary payment mechanism” set up by the European Union last June. Palestine’s 165,000 civil servants have been unpaid since March, as the US, EU, and Israel have collaborated to cut off all money to governmental bodies in the West Bank and Gaza.

Meanwhile, the general strike among the workers enters its third month, and the teachers’ union has announced that some teachers will begin teaching voluntarily, beginning Saturday, in order to continue the education of their students, who have already lost two months of their school year because of the strike.

Meanwhile, Palestinian Health Minister Bassem Na'eem warned that the Palestinian health sector in the Gaza Strip is on the verge of collapse if the sanctions continue.

Conclusion
And that’s just some of the news this week in Palestine. For constant updates, check out our website, [URL="http://www.imemc.org"]www.imemc.org[/URL]. As always, thanks for joining us. From Occupied Bethlehem, this is Michael Beit-kent, Polly Bangoriad and Ghassan Bannoura.

http://www.imemc.org/content/view/22448/161/



Here are some images of life in Gaza





















Number of Israelis killed the same week was 0.
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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OK how about Amnesty International? Are they reliable and objective enough?



Nobel Peace Prize good enough credentials?

Here is there take on Israel/Palestine:









I see nothing here which makes me want to support one side or the other.
AI, has been accused of bias, and quite frankly I have seen it in the stuff I've read from them. I will always support Israel, just short of following in the Hezbollah's leaders footsteps and calling for the complete destruction of Palestine. But hey, if the Hezbollah keep it up, I just might.
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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Israel has the high moral and ethical ground


HAHAHA!!!!



Somebody needs to do some homework. Here's where to start:


What have I told you about tattle tale books by discruntled employees?

If you set down your rules for war, I shall follow them. If you disrespect the lives of my people I shall disrespect the lives of yours. That is is how I feel about how war should be waged.
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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Hezbollah talks about murdering Jews, but for the most part isn't that effective.

Israel on the other hand actually does carry out wholesale massacres of innocent civilians.

Which speaks louder, actions or words?

Here is an example of a typical week in Gaza:





Here are some images of life in Gaza





















Number of Israelis killed the same week was 0.
Good, I'm glad no Israeli's were killed, the IDF is doing a fantastic job then.
 

Sassylassie

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Jan 31, 2006
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Yes these brave Palestinian Soldiers are now using the second weakest member of their society to die as human shields. The song Coward of the Country is rolling through my head. Where's the media outrage? Why aren't the feminists screaming in the west?

Forcing Women to Die
By Jamie Glazov
FrontPageMagazine.com | November 9, 2006


Just recently, in the northern Gaza town of Beit Hanoun, Hamas ordered Palestinian women to act as human shields for terrorists who had holed themselves up inside al-Nasser Mosque. Israeli soldiers ended up inadvertently killing two of the women, and injuring ten others, as they tried to shoot militants escaping amongst the human shields.
This horrid example of the Palestinian culture’s violent misogyny replayed itself again shortly after, as a female Palestinian suicide bomber blew herself up in the same Gaza town in an effort to kill Israeli soldiers. One soldier was slightly wounded and evacuated to a hospital. The militant Islamic Jihad group claimed responsibility for the suicide bombing.
These Palestinian crimes against humanity once again shed light on the vicious system of gender apartheid within the Palestinian death cult.

The Left spins these recent events as some kind of desperate backlash by Palestinian women against American and Israeli oppression. Unfortunately, the facts tell another frightening tale -- one that you won’t hear about in the mainstream media.

The veneration of suicide-killing in Palestinian jihad takes a pathological twist when it dovetails with the culture’s deep-rooted misogyny. The instinct for death in the culture engenders a morbid dilemma in that too many males end up blowing themselves up while women remain mostly exempt from killing themselves. As a result, the law of men spawns yet another violent misogynistic structure: balancing the scales of gender equality when suicide murder is at play.

Female infanticide and honor killings are not enough for a culture where the torture and dehumanization of women exist as a high priority. The lust for death, therefore, also enforces a paradigm in which women are forced to blow themselves up -- whether they want to or not. The woman-haters go about this violence by creating nightmarish conditions for certain women in which suicide is left as their only alternative.

Fact: a growing phenomenon exists in which Palestinian militants seduce and/or rape Palestinian women and then threaten to expose their “impurity” unless suicide murder is chosen as the glorious and redeeming way out.

The unfortunate female victims in this vicious death orchestra are coerced into blowing themselves up as the only way to spare their family’s, and their own, “honor”. The terror group Fatah, for instance, runs an operation in which male terrorists seduce or rape young women and then confront them with the deadly choice: shameful death in an “honor” killing at the hands of the family or the washing away of the family’s shame by "martyrdom."

Hamas engages in the same crime, as the heart-wrenching case of Reem Al-Reyashi illustrates. The mother of two young children, she blew herself up in January 2004 at the Erez crossing in Israel, killing herself and four Israelis. It was discovered after the suicide-killing that she had been seduced by a Hamas terrorist -- who afterwards offered her a choice between an “honor” killing or suicide by means of explosives detonated amidst as many Jews as possible. Her terrorist lover armed her with the necessary explosives and instructions, and her husband drove her to the location of her crime and death.

In May 2004, Israel was able to stop two young Palestinian women from following in Al-Reyashi’s footsteps. The terror group Tanzim had coerced these women to reclaim their “honor” by killing themselves amongst Jews. The first woman, Tehani Zaki Ali Halil, had lost her “honor” after being accused of adultery and was forced to carry out a suicide attack in Tel Aviv as her penance. The second woman, a 19-year-old named Ramah Abed el-Majid Hasan Habaib, was accused of engaging in premarital sexual relations.

In this respect, we see how Palestinian women are coerced into blowing themselves up, and into acting as human shields, in a culture that values them more in death than in life. And since no female equality exists on any other level in Palestinian society, the Islamic clerics and terrorist groups paint suicide bombings as the only way a Palestinian women can achieve “equality.”

Islamic jihad, therefore, has now become “feminist” in the Muslim sense by adopting a “liberal” attitude toward suicide along gender lines. This “feminism” can be found in promotional materials in Palestinian Jihadi literature -- represented by statements like: "Our women are no longer the type of women who cry or weep. We have martyrdom women now.”

It is no surprise, meanwhile, that there is not one word of protest, not one howl of moral indignation, from the camp of leftist feminism in the West. This is just to be expected, of course, since, as Dr. Phyllis Chesler has documented in The Death of Feminism, these feminists have completely betrayed their persecuted sisters under the vicious and sadistic system of Islamic gender apartheid.

To be sure, leftist feminists are deafeningly silent on the horrors of forced marriages, honor killingsand female genital mutilation within the Islamic world. The radical worldview of Oslo Professor of Anthropology, Dr. Unni Wikan, reflects this growing pathology. Her solution for the Muslim rape epidemic in Norway, for instance, is that Norwegian women start veiling themselves.

Meanwhile, for Miriam Cooke, a Duke professor and head of the Association for Middle East Women’s Studies, nothing needs to be done about female suicide bombers because they represent a good thing. Indeed, in Cooke’s perspective, when a Muslim woman blows herself up, she exhibits her strength and manifests “agency” against colonial powers.

And so, while women under the Palestinian death cult are forced into suicide-killing, our society’s leftist feminists stand idly by, shrugging their shoulders with callous indifference and inhuman apathy.

These self-appointed guardians of women’s rights couldn’t care less about real and actual breathing women. That's because the tragic and untimely death of Reem Al-Reyashi, who wanted to live, and the fate of her two orphaned children, as well as the deaths of the four Israelis Al-Reyashi killed, are soul-tearing realities that don’t fit into the morbid heartlessness of utopian ideals.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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Hezbollah talks about murdering Jews, but for the most part isn't that effective.

Israel on the other hand actually does carry out wholesale massacres of innocent civilians.

Which speaks louder, actions or words?

Here is an example of a typical week in Gaza:

You guys keep forgetting......Israel withdrew from Gaza, leaving it to Hamas and the Palestinians......just as they withdrew from Lebanon, leaving it to Hezbollah.

In both instances, the territory Israel abandoned was instantly turned into a launch pad for attacks on civilians in Israel proper.

It is called SELF-DEFENSE on Israel's part.

And I have to ask:

Do you believe Hezbollah places its military assets among civilian populations so that any attack on them is a propaganda jackpot? If so, don't you think they share some responsibility when their "sheilds" get blown up? Remember, even Nasrallah expressed regret for STARTING the entire mess.

Do you believe Israeli's military is so incompetent that in firing tens of thousands of shells and bombs into Lebanon, and in sending in ground troops with (as you claim) the intention of killing civilians, they only managed to "get" 1800? Or were they trying to avoid civilian casualties? It is one or the other, there is no gray area. Either they intended mass murder, or they didn't.

This is my problem with your stance: it does not match the facts. You blame Israel for everything in Lebanon, but they were attacked, as admitted by Nasrallah.

You say Israel set out to murder civilians, but civilian casualties were remarkably low.

You say Israel should get out of Palestinian land, but when they do, they are attacked FROM the area they voluntarily surrendered.

You say Israel should work towards peace, but with whom? Both Hezbollah and Hamas have as their reason for existence the complete destruction of Israel. Hamas has undercut every peace plan proposed.

As I said before, Israel has skeletons in the closet. But we need to go on towards peace from HERE, not from 1948, or 1967, or the year 0.

Israel requires a partner to work towards peace with.............and there is no one in Hamas or Hezbollah willing to take up that cause.

What would YOU have Israel do?

Simple question.

But be REALISTIC!
 

northstar

Electoral Member
Oct 9, 2006
560
0
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earth, shame on you for supporting Hezzbollah when our troops are rebuilding and getting murdered by these ing deceptive suicide bombing fanatics!!!

p.s. I know you complained about me, so much for your 'I WISH PEOPLE WELL HERE"...nice try, but the content of your news qoutes and propaganda gore are ignorant...of the facts, l hope you are learning from the brilliant posts l see here.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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Quote where I wrote I support Hezbollah. I don't support either side in this conflict. I support peace, tolerance, justice and freedom through compassion, understanding and knowledge. Seems to me the one who supports slaughtering innocent men women and children is CDNBear. Read his last post. We will never achieve peace through war, intolerance, hate and ignorance.

This is a war. Soldiers fight with the weapons they have. Those women volunteered to act as human shields. No one forced them. A plea for help was made and these woman responded voluntarily. They successfully rescued fellow Palestinians. That must have taken courage.

A suicide bomber isn't forced to blow themselves up as some suggest. They volunteer for these missions. Palestinians honor their soldiers for the same reasons we honor our soldiers.

I am against war and other forms of organized violence, but I understand why people volunteer to fight for their country. If Canadians faced the same injustice and oppression as Palestinians, I might resort to violence too.

In some Muslim/Arab cultures adultery and promiscuity are considerd serious crimes. I don't agree with this, but the women who went on suicide missions to redeem themelves had other choices. Once they got to an area controlled by Israel they could always surrender (where they would be imprisoned and tortured). Or they could choose not to sacrifice themselves and live as outcasts or face punnishment for their crimes. Too bad we don't offer these women another choice: To leave.

Palestinians never asked for war. It came as a result of Zionism or the racist belief that Jewish foreigners have a God given right to non-Jewish Palestinian homes. Few Palestinians took up arms against Israel during the 1948 war, but when it was over, Israeli soldiers used rape and murder to drive 800,000 non-Jewish Palestinians out of their homes and into refugee camps.

For 15 years the world ignored their peaceful pleas for justice and the right to return home as per international law. It wasn't until the mid 1960's that most Palestinians began to realize they would never get justice or freedom by peaceful means. These people chose violent resistance because the world ignored them. These people fight because their other choice is to live on handouts without hope for a better future.

Israel has never offered these people a fair and just peace. At no time has Israel ever stopped taking their land or commiting atrocities against these people. While Israel's leaders have made agreements not to take Palestinian land, but they always return home promptly resume settlement building and killing Palestinians.

I don't claim Israel is trying to kill as many Palestinians as possible. Israel's intent is to wipe Palestine off the map and they are willing to kill and imprison as many Palestinians as required to achieve that goal. Those who support killing innocent civilians should be ashamed of themselves. I don't support either side's atrocities.

The recent roadmap to peace for example. All three major Palestinian resistance groups agreed to a ceasefire in exchange for peace and a halt to settlement building. For two months they endured assassinations and continued Jewish settlement building on land Israel agreed was reserved for Palestinians. Sharon granted Palestinian land to Jewish settlers within weeks of agreeing to the roadmap to peace. Israel even assassinated the Palestinian leader who negotiated the ceasefire:

Abu Shanab was the most moderate leader of Hamas’s political wing, not at that time a target. This was Hamas’s ceasefire negotiator, a man who advocated engagement in parliamentary process, who was openly prepared to entertain the two-state solution.

On 21 August 2003, Ismail Abu Shanab was assassinated by an Israeli helicopter missile strike while travelling by car in Gaza. Government press releases termed him "terrorist", "operative".

But veering off-message, an Israeli security source told the Washington Post after his killing, "To what extent that person was involved [in terrorism] or not is not important. What is important is that this man... is one of the people who makes decisions about what kind of policies Hamas should adopt."...

http://www.fromoccupiedpalestine.org/node.php?id=774

What does Israel's murder of a moderate Palestinian leader who advocated two state solutions and peace with Israel say about Israel's intentions?

When a Palestinian suicide bomber struck back in response to Israel's continued annexation of Palestinian land, acts of violence and atrocities and other Israeli violations of the ceasefire agreement, Israel's supporters created a perception that Palestinians violated the ceasefire. Israel knew their violations would eventually provoke a response and they used it as an excuse to steal more land and commit acts of violence and greater atrocities.

This current cycle of violence started when Israeli PM Sharon indicated he wanted to destroy a Mosque which sits on Islam's third most holy site and replace it with a Jewish Temple.

Israel was forced out of Gaza because it was undefendable. Once the settlers were out, they could bomb Gaza at will. Gaza is surrounded by landmines, walls and guard towers. Israeli guards patrol the perimeter. Inside it is one of the word's most crowded and poor places. Israel destroyed the sewer systems and cut off electricty and water. It meets the defintion of a concentration camp. The living conditions are not that different that that faced by Jews in the Warsaw ghetto during WW II.

By the way, I am Canadian and agnostic. My people include all human beings. I support peace, tolerance, justice and freedom through compassion, understanding and knowledge.
 
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CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
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Spoken like a true pubic servent.

And still you have not been able to disprove any thing posted in 4 threads without resulting in childish behave and complete dismissal of fact. Including facts from your own HRW.

I think you haven't answered about half a dozen direct questions either. How interesting.
 
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Sassylassie

House Member
Jan 31, 2006
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Earth wrote: In some Muslim/Arab cultures adultery and promiscuity are considerd serious crimes. I don't agree with this, but the women who went on suicide missions to redeem themelves had other choices. Once they got to an area controlled by Israel they could always surrender (where they would be imprisoned and tortured). Or they could choose not to sacrifice themselves and live as outcasts or face punnishment for their crimes. Too bad we don't offer these women another choice: To leave.

While golly gee Earth those darn women could of just told them their fellas no and then they can go home put their best going to Sunday Beheading Burka on and wait while the fellas dig a hole to bury her in and she can look forward to death by stoning. Now let me see death by detonation or death by stoning, Jesus wept thats some choice Earth. Great advice for rape victims Earth, really what a carring person you aren't. I can't believe how cold hearted some of you peaceniks are, are any of you married and if so to what?

I have a question regarding the Palestinian Men and their new Weapon of death, or cowardice in the West, how are they going to get men in Terrorist Camps to put on Burkas so they can practice this new "Honorable" military tactic of "Stop, drop and roll and clamour up the skirt."? I hope someone gets some footage, it would be hilarious watching these Mad Dogs in training clamouring up Burkas. Victims, ITN but the women and children most certainly are.
 

northstar

Electoral Member
Oct 9, 2006
560
0
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This is a war. Soldiers fight with the weapons they have. Those women volunteered to act as human shields. No one forced them. A plea for help was made and these woman responded voluntarily. They successfully rescued fellow Palestinians. That must have taken courage.
--earth

These women are brought up educated in a system that teaches them to hate all those who are non-Muslim, is this volunteerism? By birth they had no choices, they were not ever allowed to develop a tolerance or understanding of how to achieve peace. It is all about destroy and conquer in the name of ALLAH. They are as much soldiers, by virtue of brainwashing, as the men, and they acted as soldiers. Courage? Courage is a choice, should l do something that l am afraid of? Or should l chose to not be courageous and say, 'sorry, l can't come..." This did not involve a choice.There is absolutely no options, you go and or you will surely die at the hands of your relatives.

A suicide bomber isn't forced to blow themselves up as some suggest. They volunteer for these missions. Palestinians honor their soldiers for the same reasons we honor our soldiers.
--earth


There is no way of knowing this. Who is to say they are not forced.

I call brainwashing a baby, dressing the child as a suicide bomber, and as soldiers, brainwashing children to hate Jews and Christians through everyday repetition and rewards through family and school.

When l hear the comments of palestinian women about how it is expected to sacrific their children for the love of their country, as a wedding, the ultimate sacrific, there is no other choice.

If they say no, they will dishonour their family, and they will be shamed and tortured as a show to everyone else.

This is not a choice.

In some Muslim/Arab cultures adultery and promiscuity are considerd serious crimes... the women who went on suicide missions to redeem themelves had other choices. Once they got to an area controlled by Israel they could always surrender (where they would be imprisoned and tortured). Or they could choose not to sacrifice themselves and live as outcasts or face punnishment for their crimes. Too bad we don't offer these women another choice: To leave.
--earth

First of all, we are not in any position to offer these women a choice,at the moment anyway, this is tribal pressure from before birth to raise children who are soldiers and martyrs.

A palestinian women's greatest achievement is to raise a tribe of marytrs.These are never allowed the luxury of choice.

As for the suicide mission to 'redeem' themselves, again this is the oppressive religious doctorine in which children are allowed to survive for power of a tribe, and they are told from before they understand that they are soldiers and the greatest achievement is to sacrifice themselves for ALLLAH.

They cannot surrender, their family will pay for the dishonor, they have this instilled in their brain from infanthood...there is no choice, no shortcut, just how many you can take out with your own murder...

This is a deeply troubled civilization, with a deeply troubled religion that is convinced that to brainwash children to hate and murder.

This is not about courage...this is about a very troubled dysfunctional way of life...fanatical terrorism.

Palestinians never asked for war. It came as a result of Zionism or the racist belief that Jewish foreigners have a God given right to non-Jewish Palestinian homes. Few Palestinians took up arms against Israel during the 1948 war, but when it was over, Israeli soldiers used rape and murder to drive 800,000 non-Jewish Palestinians out of their homes and into refugee camps.

That is just not true, this situation has escalated for years, and the blood is on the Palestinians hands because they are the first to claim the incredible hatred for the Israelis' and non-Muslims. they are the first to vow to murder every last Isreali...
 
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earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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Blood isn't just on Palestinian hands. Its on all of our hands.

80 years ago Palestine was a relatively peaceful place. Jews and non-Jews coexisted without the violence we see today. Palestine was controlled by the British. During the 1930's and 40's, Palestinians found themselves overrun by hostile foreigners fleeing the horrors of Nazi Europe who believed they had a God given right to commit atrocities against Palestinians. When Israel won independance in the 1948 war, the foreigners resorted to rape and murder in order to ethnically cleanse Palestine of 800,000 Palestinians. It took 15 years of rotting in refugee camps and the world doing nothing to correct these injustices before Palestinians demands for freedom and justice became violent.

You say children are taught to hate in Palestinian schools. I agree. Here is an example of a lesson:

Annan Laments Ongoing Violence In Gaza As Another Girl Is Hit By Israeli Gunfire

As another Palestinian girl in the Gaza Strip was hit by Israeli gunfire while attending a United Nations-run school, Secretary-General Kofi Annan said today that he was deeply troubled by the continuing military action and violence in the area, especially its effect on local children.

Ghadeer Jaber Mokheimer, aged 11, was hit in the stomach during classes at the school in the refugee camp at Khan Younis, the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) said in a statement issued in Jerusalem. The grade five student underwent emergency surgery in hospital, where her condition was later described as stable.

UNRWA said two shots were heard at about 10.45 a.m. from the direction of an Israeli army position on the border of the Gush Katif settlement and overlooking Khan Younis.

Noting that it is the fourth incident of its kind in two years, and that the Agency has repeatedly asked Israeli authorities to stop firing at schools, UNRWA Commissioner-General Peter Hansen called again for an immediate end to such shootings.

Most recently, 10-year-old Raghda Adnan Al-Assar was struck in the head on 7 September while sitting at her desk in a classroom of another UNRWA-run school in Khan Younis. She never regained consciousness and died on 22 September.
In a statement issued by his spokesman, Mr. Annan said he deplored the "high toll of death and injuries among the civilian population" and grieved "for the many children who have been killed or wounded" during the Israeli military operations in the north of the Gaza Strip....

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO0410/S00158.htm

What lesson do you think the surviving children learned in class that day?

Palestinian children recieve similar lessons on the way to school:

Israeli officer: I was right
to shoot 13-year-old child

Thirteen-year-old Iman Al-Hams was killed when an Israeli officer emptied his weapon into her. Israelis have been responsible for killing over 600 other Palestinian children since September 2000.​

By Chris McGreal
UK Guardian
November 24, 2004
An Israeli army officer who repeatedly shot a 13-year-old Palestinian girl in Gaza dismissed a warning from another soldier that she was a child by saying he would have killed her even if she was three years old.

The officer, identified by the army only as Captain R, was charged this week with illegal use of his weapon, conduct unbecoming an officer and other relatively minor infractions after emptying all 10 bullets from his gun’s magazine into Iman al-Hams when she walked into a “security area” on the edge of Rafah refugee camp last month.

A tape recording of radio exchanges between soldiers involved in the incident, played on Israeli television, contradicts the army’s account of the events and appears to show that the captain shot the girl in cold blood.

The official account claimed that Iman was shot as she walked towards an army post with her schoolbag because soldiers feared she was carrying a bomb.
But the tape recording of the radio conversation between soldiers at the scene reveals that, from the beginning, she was identified as a child and at no point was a bomb spoken about nor was she described as a threat. Iman was also at least 100 yards from any soldier.

Instead, the tape shows that the soldiers swiftly identified her as a “girl of about 10” who was “scared to death”. The tape also reveals that the soldiers said Iman was headed eastwards, away from the army post and back into the refugee camp, when she was shot.


Relatives mourn the killing of 13-year-old Iman Al-Hams.​

At that point, Captain R took the unusual decision to leave the post in pursuit of the girl. He shot her dead and then “confirmed the kill” by emptying his magazine into her body.

The tape recording is of a three-way conversation between the army watchtower, the army post’s operations room and the captain, who was a company commander.

The soldier in the watchtower radioed his colleagues after he saw Iman: “It’s a little girl. She’s running defensively eastward.”

Operations room: “Are we talking about a girl under the age of 10?”

Watchtower: “A girl of about 10, she’s behind the embankment, scared to death.”

A few minutes later, Iman is shot in the leg from one of the army posts.
The watchtower: “I think that one of the positions took her out.”
The company commander then moves in as Iman lies wounded and helpless.
Captain R: “I and another soldier ... are going in a little nearer, forward, to confirm the kill ... Receive a situation report. We fired and killed her ... I also confirmed the kill. Over.”

Witnesses described how the captain shot Iman twice in the head, walked away, turned back and fired a stream of bullets into her body. Doctors at Rafah’s hospital said she had been shot at least 17 times....

Later Palestinian children were taught a lesson about justice:


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]October 21, 2004 by the Guardian/UK[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A Schoolgirl Riddled with Bullets. And No One is to Blame
Questions remain after Israeli unit commander is cleared of Palestinian pupil's death
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]by Chris McGreal in Rafah [/FONT]​
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The undisputed facts are these: it was broad daylight, 13-year-old Iman al-Hams was wearing her school uniform, and when she walked into the Israeli army's "forbidden zone" at the bottom of her street she was carrying her satchel. A few minutes later the short, slight child was pumped with bullets. Doctors counted at least 17 wounds and said much of her head was destroyed....


A Palestinian prays during the funeral of 13-year-old schoolgirl Iman al-Hams in the Al Awdah mosque at the Rafah refugee camp, south of the Gaza Strip, October 5, 2004. REUTERS/Ibraheem Abu Mustafa

...This week an army investigation cleared the unit's commander after some of his own soldiers accused him of giving the order to shoot knowing the target was a young girl, and of then emptying the clip of his automatic rifle into her.

On the day she died, Iman left home shortly before 7am for the short walk to school in Rafah's Tal al-Sultan neighborhood. The school, facing the heavily militarized border with Egypt, is under the shadow of a towering camouflaged Israeli gunpost. Like almost every other building in the area, Iman's school is pockmarked by bullets. Last year, a 13-year-old boy was shot dead by the army outside the school. This year, two pupils and a teacher were wounded by bullets inside the grounds....

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1021-03.htm


Palestinian children also learn lessons outside of school activities:

Gaza: The Children Killed in a War the World Doesn't Want to Know About

By Donald Macintyre
The Independent UK
Tuesday 19 September 2006

Nayef Abu Snaima says his 14-year-old cousin Jihad had been sitting on the edge of an olive grove talking animatedly to him about what he would do when he grew up when he was killed instantly by an Israeli shell.

He says he clearly saw a bright flash next to the control tower of the disused Gaza international airport, occupied by Israeli forces after Cpl Gilad Shalit was seized by militants on 25 June. "I went two or three steps and the missile landed," said Nayef, 24. "I thought I was dying. I shouted 'La Ilaha Ila Allah' [There is no God but Allah]."

When Jihad's older brother Kassem, 20, arrived at the scene: "My brother was already dead. There was shrapnel in his head. Nayef was shouting 'Allah, Allah'. The missile landed about four metres from where Jihad had been standing. There was shrapnel in his body as well, his legs, everything. He had been bleeding a lot everywhere."...

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/091906B.shtml
[/FONT]

Even during play, Palestinian children are taught lessons:

IDF Breaks Ceasefire And Kills Three Youths Playing Soccer

Exclusive translation by Sol Salbe
The Israeli web site Einyan Merkazi (new-israel.net) did not mince words in reporting the death of three Palestinian youths yesterday. It chose to believe the Palestinian version of events rather than IDF's. The credibility of the IDF Spokeswoman has been tarnished to the point that virtually all other mainstream sites gave equal prominence to the two versions.
But Einyan Merkazi went further still. It hinted that the IDF units' commanders have a track record in provoking this kind of incidents. It may be recalled that the matter of the failure of the last Hudna has been discussed quite extensively in the Israeli media. It is now known that even the Chief of Staff Major-General Moshe "Boogi" Ya'alon now believes that it was a unit commanded and staffed mainly by right-wing settlers that was responsible for the chain of event that caused the collapse of the last Hudna....

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0504/S00088.htm

These are just a few examples of lessons Palestinian children learn about justice and liberty.