The Gun Registry Must be Deregistered!!

[Reverend Blair]

RE: The Gun Registry Must

I have looked at the numbers, iamcanadian. Your analysis doesn't hold up.

The US has spent more on corruption and done less to address it...just check out Halliburton in Iraq.

Several European countries have higher tax rates than Canada has. That's total taxes.

What you're saying just doesn't match reality.

 

[Colpy]

Nope. The revolutionary army had help from the French, including supplies of arms. I believe there were also German mercenaries fighting on both sides.

Good point, of course you are correct. I answered too quickly.

Although you must admit the restrictions on the question, as pointed out by PP2, are ludicrous.

Certainly an armed society can not be oppressed......with impunity.

 

[Colpy]

Quote:
Here it is folks, from the National Post:

Gee, a right-wing newspaper spewing the same innaccurate numbers from the same twisted studies that you've already used. Sorry, doesn't work.

You say this, and then have the gall to quote the Brady Bunch?

It is to laugh.

BTW, the stats on Britain come from the British government. I suppose they are tools of the NRA as well.

 

[Colpy]

Quote:
I wonder why there is such deep sediment against Ottawa?
Riverbank erosion?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Now if there were only enough sediment to bury the damn place.

 

[iamcanadian]

Ok, lets do the math on taxes:

Average family income of two working Canadians w 2 kids = $100,000.

Income Tax / EI / CPP ~ $40,000
Gas Tax ~ $10,000
GST & PST ~ $10,000
Property Taxes ~ $5,000
Miscelanious User Fees/Licensces etc. ~ $5,000

Net after tax = ~ $30,000

Goes to Food = $10,000
Goes to Rent/Mort/Debts = $15,000
Goes to RRSP's for retirement (because no pensions here unlike every other civilized country) = $5,000

Everything else needed or done comes from increasing debts.

Average Canadians Get Royally Screwed in this Country.

 

[Colpy]

The gun registry is full of holes, just like the Liberal Party. I grew up with guns, guns are tools, nothing short. You cannot compare a ghetto and a country farm and come up with a solution. These are two different worlds bar none. Anti gang units, border protection, and more funds given to anti crime task forces are needed. To burden another law-abiding citizen with more rules and regulations, and the possiblity of having there house searched, is only going to breed animosity. (I wonder why there is such deep sediment against Ottawa?) You tax the poor to death, clamp down every regulation known to man, and treat the law abiding like criminals.

Yeah.

I watch a Ron James special last night (funny guy).

He was talking about the Liberal attitude to drive by shootings in Toronto......

"Did you see the shooters?"

"Yeah, it was two big bellied 60 year old white guys wearing orange hats and vests with a Labrador Retriever in back"

"Hey Gordie, I tapped that Mo Fo 'cause he was bangin' my Ho"

That's about it.

 

[iamcanadian]

Gun Registry Scam = $2.0 Billion dollars and counting.

This is more than the Net Domestic Product of many "perceived" more corrupt countries.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Ok, lets do the math on taxes:

Okay, let's just make up numbers randomly. Where'd you get those numbers? More to the point, did you wipe when you were done?

Average family income of two working Canadians w 2 kids = $100,000.

Is that average? Do they have other deductions? Who claims the kids? How much does each spouse make? Do they run a business out of their house?

Income Tax / EI / CPP ~ $40,000

EI isn't a tax. It's an insurance fund paid for by workers and employers. I have trouble with the way it's administered and the restrictions placed on collection, but it isn't a tax.

CPP isn't a tax either. It's a pension plan. Most of the places I've worked have taken money off my cheques for other pension plans too. Were those taxes as well?

I have no idea if your income tax estimate is accurate or not.

Gas Tax ~ $10,000

Are you on dope? Mrs, Rev once won gas for a year from Esso. It was $5,000 worth of coupons. We ran two vehicles on that, including a 1975 gas guzzling V-8 Blazer, for almost a year. That included several trips to Saskatchewan.

Ah, but gas has gone up, you say...

We've spent just over $8,000 on gas this year, according to my computer. We live in an area with no bus service. That's the total on all gas, not the gas tax. How much gas would somebody have to buy to pay $10,000 on gas tax?

GST & PST ~ $10,000

This might be close. I haven't checked. If you want to pay less, you could try buying less stuff though. Not that complicated.

Property Taxes ~ $5,000

Funny, everybody is always screaming how high property taxes are here in Winnipeg and I pay less than $2000.

Miscelanious User Fees/Licensces etc. ~ $5,000

Lemmee see:
Driver's license...$60.00
Car license (including insurance)...$1300
Truck license (including insurance)...$325
Dog licenses...$60.00

That covers the fees I pay that involve the government. I could toss in my memberships to a couple of writing organisations, I guess, but they don't go to the government and are tax deductible, so that'd be silly. They still wouldn't get me over $2000 either.

Your numbers are highly questionable, iamcanadian.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: The Gun Registry Must

Can you prove corruption within the gun registry, or are you tossing out epithets unthinkingly?

 

[iamcanadian]

These are my numbers in a general way.

Gas tax includes the gas tax on the gas used to make gas and all the rest of the costs the gas tax increases that are passed to us on in prices of goods and services that have to cover the costs of transporting people and goods.

It's not just the ~50% that is added at the pump when you fill up.

I'm in the GTA - so property taxes are much higher than other parts of Canada - But then most of Canada is in the GTA relatively speaking.

You missed user fees for kids school stuff too.

My example is intended as a generalization - everyone will be as unique as a snowflake, but I should not be too far off the mark generally as ballpark estimates.

Surely a fur trapper living in a log cabin and getting around by dogsled won't know what I am talking about here.

 

[Colpy]

Re: RE: The Gun Registry Must

Can you prove corruption within the gun registry, or are you tossing out epithets unthinkingly?

Money from the gun registry went to Liberal friendly ad firms in Quebec that were neck deep in adscam.

That came out in the Gomery investigation.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: The Gun Registry Must

Can you prove that the gun registry is corrupt? For real I mean, not by drawing vague conclusions based on partisan accusations?

 

[Grover Knight]

Gas Tax should be spent on each province that collects it accordingly. I have a problem with the wirl-pool effect of Ontario, guzzling up all the revenue. I have heard it said that around 4% of gas tax is spent on the 4 Western provinces each year. (Where does the other 96% end up?) Let each province have its share, for infrastructure, which in turn helps the unemployment. (As far as I am concerned, highways like the Trans-Canada should be 4-laned from coast to coast by now, which would have been achieved now, had monies from Gas tax allotted properly). (or at the very least spent on what it was intended for). As for taxes, they are much too high, they are a major burden on the middle class of this nation. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer, some things just never change. It is not the responsiblity of the middle class to uphold Canadian society.

 

[iamcanadian]

Re: RE: The Gun Registry Must

Can you prove corruption within the gun registry, or are you tossing out epithets unthinkingly?

I believe I can give it a good old college try... lets how it works and see:

Politicians responding to some perceived need or lobby group vote to accept a recommendation from some senior bureaucrat that suggests creating a gun registry and asking for approval of funding for it.

The budget is set and go ahead given.

Because the nature of processing the registration of guns involves both personally identifiable information and police record searches on individuals, the actual physical work done and associated with the expenditure of the public funds had to be kept separate and in cases secret, because we are dealing under the aura of public safety and secrity and sensitive invasion of privacy issues.

When the auditor comes around to verify proper spending practices on this budget, the response to to the Auditor was "we can't show you the records that back up the expenses we incured because it discloses sensitive private/policing information, exempt from the auditors office review". The Auditor says ok, the law agrees with you and I just have to take your word for it that the money was properly spent.

The senior administrators then spend the initial budget and go and ask for more money since they are not finished. The reports go in asking for more money and the politicians ask "what did you do with the money we gave you and why was it not enough". The reply, we can't tell you because this would divulge sensitive personal/policing informaton". Ok is received for more money.

This then sets off the basis for the taking of foot with every inch and just as you end up with 10,000 rabbits in one year when starting with just 2 of them screwing around at first, we reach $2.0 Billion dollars soon enough.

With that number, it becomes obvious that something is very wrong. As more people become cogniscent of the effort required in using and applying computers to things the scam cannot be denied by a reasoning process.

 

[Reverend Blair]

These are my numbers in a general way.

General who? General Lee?

Gas tax includes the gas tax on the gas used to make gas and all the rest of the costs the gas tax increases that are passed to us on in prices of goods and services that have to cover the costs of transporting people and goods.

What criteria did you use to calculate that? You just made the number up, didn't you?

It's not just the ~50% that is added at the pump when you fill up.

That number isn't accurate either.

I'm in the GTA - so property taxes are much higher than other parts of Canada - But then most of Canada is in the GTA relatively speaking.

Judging by how much you must spen on gas, I figured you were on Mars.

You missed user fees for kids school stuff too.

No I didn't...I have no kids so I have nothing to base that on. I can tell you that the little bastards from the private Christan school sell chocolate covered almonds a lot more than the little bastards from the public school though...and the Christian school charges a buck more too. What's up with that?

My example is intended as a generalization - everyone will be as unique as a snowflake, but I should not be too far off the mark generally as ballpark estimates.

You're way off the mark.

Surely a fur trapper living in a log cabin and getting around by dogsled won't know what I am talking about here.

They'd likely know enough to realise that you're just making crap up.

 

[Reverend Blair]

I believe I can give it a good old college try... lets how it works and see:

I wouldn't call that a good try. In fact, I'd call it a poor effort.

 

[iamcanadian]

Pray tell me where I am wrong in the scenario.

... you end up with 10,000 rabbits in one year when starting with just 2 of them screwing around at first.

This quote is a well known accepted fact but the 10,000 may not always be bang on because some rabbits screw around more than others. But so do non-elected employed public administrators with life-long public jobs and opportunity to screw around with public spending.

 

[Colpy]

Re: RE: The Gun Registry Must

Can you prove that the gun registry is corrupt? For real I mean, not by drawing vague conclusions based on partisan accusations?

My, combative today, aren't we?

What, are the Libs/NDP down in the polls?

I think being accused under oath by a LIBERAL is sufficient to support any contention on a political forum that a LIBERAL institution is corrupt.

No partisanship here.

 

[iamcanadian]

I believe I can give it a good old college try... lets how it works and see:

I wouldn't call that a good try. In fact, I'd call it a poor effort.

Ok then, you do better and prove that it was not corrupt by justifying the increased cost from the orinigal budget for a simple computer database.

Most store chains have more elaborate registration systems and control systems for their invetory and merchandise that costs less than one percent of the cost of the registry to keep track of billions of items moving daily with more precision than the gun registry does or ever will.

 

[Grover Knight]

Hey "REV", I own a trucking business, not just a moped. When you dump the kind of $$ into fuel that I do, you can appreciate the effects of gas tax. When you have to match C.P.P., 1.4 x e.i., pay into a higher tax bracket, because your "right-off's" arn't high enough, and than watch Liberals flush $$ down the toilet, maybe than you should come and talk to me. Tax relief is what this country needs, not more idotic spending, at the hands of a bunch of corrupt left handed politicians.