The Gun Registry Must be Deregistered!!
- Thread starter bluealberta
- Start date
Chatting with the Rev in Messenger and we got onto this topic. Again. We've decided to debate it here in the forum so everyone can add their couple pennies worth!
Ok Rev ... Here's my position: If you disarm a nation then tax them beyond their endurance, it's a classic government ploy to control the masses. On a personal level, the registered guns are not the ones causing the problems. It's the unregistered ones ... the ones the bad guys are using and will never register. Gun registry can never prevent that from happening.
I believe in education, not legislation. Teach people how to handle guns rather than endowing them with this mystical power that draws young punk kids like flies to crap.
Ok Rev ... Here's my position: If you disarm a nation then tax them beyond their endurance, it's a classic government ploy to control the masses. On a personal level, the registered guns are not the ones causing the problems. It's the unregistered ones ... the ones the bad guys are using and will never register. Gun registry can never prevent that from happening.
I believe in education, not legislation. Teach people how to handle guns rather than endowing them with this mystical power that draws young punk kids like flies to crap.
The government trying to prevent armed revolt is a non-starter. About 5 minutes after a revolution starts, AK-47s and rocket launchers become available. This has happened even under the most oppressive regimes. It's like magic.
Besides, you cannot mount an armed insurrection against a modern military with deer rifles and handguns.
We had a kid shot here a couple of years ago. Some gang members were robbing the store he worked in. The murder weapon was a sawed-off rifle, not a smuggled weapon. It had been legal right up until the time it was modified. The fewer controls there are on guns, the more they get stolen, go unreported (usually because they weren't stored properly) and become available for crimes to be used in the commission of crime. This is especially true for handguns.
The proliferation of weapons also leads to more accidents. In the US, guns kept for personal protection are more likely to shoot a family member (either by accidental discharge or mistaken identity) than they are likely to shoot an intruder.
Strangers coming to the door are also more likely to be mistaken for intruders and shot. There have been cases involving pizza delivery boys and people who simply got the wrong address. There seems to be a bit of a racial element to that as well, but that might have more to do with the demographic that ends up in delivery jobs. It might not though.
The gun registry was never meant to prevent illegal weapons. It does give police additional charges to lay if somebody is caught with an unregistered gun, but the purpose of the registry is so that the authorities know who has what for guns and if those guns are legal and legally owned.
Gun crime is much lower in countries that restrict the ownership of firearms and require registration of firearms. Our border with the United States and their lax gun laws mean that we will always have illegal guns in Canada, but following the example of countries that have strict prohibitions will at least mitigate our gun crime somewhat.
Guns are very dangerous tool. There is no reason why they should not be registered and restricted. We have to register our cars and pass a test before we can drive them. I had to pass a test before I could legally use a Hilti nailer commercially. You need a special license to operate heavy equipment or to sell booze.
None of those things are designed specifically to kill. Killing is the specific purpose of firearms. You are allowed to own both long guns and hand guns in Canada. Registering them is not to much too ask.
Reverend Blair said:
If all these things are available, isn't gun registry a moot point?
I would love to see some statistics on deaths from registered versus non-registered weapons here. If you have any, I'd be most interested. I'll also go looking myself. I don't believe for one second that registering guns will in any way stop the bad guys.
Again, what is the point if it's not to prevent illegal weapons?? The cops really don't need additional charges to lay, in my opinion. If someone shoots someone else, there is either a good reason for the shooting or charges can be laid. Gun registry doesn't impact that. And it supports my point about furthering the power of the police state.
I am not at all against educating people about guns. In fact I think that is the best alternative to gun registry. I wouldn't even be so against gun registry if the process were made simpler. As it stands, I have to pay a lot of money and jump through a dozen hoops just to have possession of a family heirloom (.22 rifle). I don't plan on using the gun on anything except targets at a rifle range, but it is a meaningful piece of history passed down from my grandfather and I am not allowed to have it.
More people are killed by automobiles than guns every year, yet we are diligent about education, legislation, auto safety ... obviously the lawmakers cannot keep us safe. Applying that same recipe to guns doesn't make sense to me. It doesn't work with cars, how will it improve the safety of guns?
And there is no way for the law to police guns like they do cars. You can't hide a Chevvy under your jacket like you can a 45. The vast majority of our police resources are focused in the area of automobiles ... what kind of resources would be required to enforce laws about guns?? It's just not practical.
Another thing that bothers me is that outlawing guns serves to make them more glamourous to all the little wannabe gansta kids out there. If they are such a big deal, they are imbued with power and become a status symbol. The more we fuss about guns, the more attractive they become to impressionable kids who should definitely not have them.
Geez, Rev ... our first disagreement. Kinda fun, ain't it?
It's a hoot.
They aren't available though. They become available, usually when Russian cargo planes start landing. The really cool thing about AK-47s is that they will work when they are dirty and even a child can use one. In some countries you can get one for the price of a chicken. They are the ultimate weapon oif insurrectionists.
I don't have any, but I'm guessing it would be about equal...at least outside of major urban centres. The most common murder is still a crime of passion.
Because I have every right to own a weapon, but the guy half a block away from me has a history that should keep him from owning anything more lethal than a can opener. Because without the regulations people who have no idea how to handle a weapon could buy them. Because without the registry, guns that were stored improperly and got stolen were often not reported. Because people develop problems over the years and not everybody has responsible family members to take their guns away.
Here's something that's pretty common, especially in rural areas: Cops get a warrant to search for drugs/stolen goods. Everybody in town knows the guy is selling meth and accepting stolen goods as payment. They find weapons (a shotgun and a 30.06...legal guns), but nothing else. If the guns are unregistered, the cops can lay a charge. If the guns were registered and reported stolen, the cops can begin to build a trail.
And when the cops are sent to a domestic dispute or to break up a loud party, they'd like to know if there are weapons in the house.
Does it? With all of the problems I've had with cops over the years, Canada still feels like far less of a police state than the US does. If you think of countries that have few, if any, gun laws, those tend to be the countries where the police have the most powers and are least answerable should they shoot somebody.
Me either. The first bit of education they should have is seeing something die from a gunshot. After that they can learn to handle a gun properly.
They are not mutually exclusive. The registry is a way of ensuring that people who own guns know how to handle them.
You'll need an FAC (predates the gun registry by at least a couple of decades), some sort of importation paperwork (also pre-dates the registry), a proper storage cabinet (Canadian Tire has a variety of them)(pre-dates the registry), and you'll need to go get a registration form from the RCMP and register the rifle.
The course to get the FAC is pretty easy, but you'll likely learn a thing or two. You might also meet somebody willing to give you bambi steaks. I don't know much about the importation paperwork, but a guy I know did it for a used handgun and he didn't find it that tough. You'd want a storage cabinet for an heirloom anyway because it protects the wood parts and helps to prevent rust on the metal. The RCMP are happy to help with registration things.
More people die in the bathtub than in plane crashes too. Should we quit licensing pilots?
A little tidbit about automobile carnage.... The number of deaths has remained relatively constant for the past 30 years or so, but the number of cars on the road has grown considerably. Think that might have to do with increased licensing requirements and more regulated ownership?
Not even a Vega?
They don't have to police guns like they do cars, they are different issues.
Other than increased searches at the border? Nothing. They have more information now, and increased charges they can lay. That's all they need.
It's not the gun registry that does that, it's the media and, more than anything else, peer pressure. The registry and other restrictions we have on guns shouldn't be a fuss though. Among developed nations, our restrictions are relatively lax.
http://toronto.cbc.ca/regional/servlet/View?filename=to-shootings20050809
The registry isn't solving these problems….
The registry isn't solving these problems….
RE: The Gun Registry Must
Nope. The way to solve those problems is to ban everything but single shot long guns and search every vehicle coming in from the US for guns. You should get on your Conservative party about that, Jay.
Nope. The way to solve those problems is to ban everything but single shot long guns and search every vehicle coming in from the US for guns. You should get on your Conservative party about that, Jay.
The whole point of a gun registry is that, if your guns aren't registered, they can be taken away. If your guns are registered, you therefore have a right to have them.
All of you Harperites keep claiming that all the crimes are committed with UNREGISTERED GUNS. So, the registry provides a simple way for the police to decide which ones can be taken away. Therefore all you Harperites must be in favour of the registry, right?
Why are you people so inconsistent? You're contradicting your own bloody point.
All of you Harperites keep claiming that all the crimes are committed with UNREGISTERED GUNS. So, the registry provides a simple way for the police to decide which ones can be taken away. Therefore all you Harperites must be in favour of the registry, right?
Why are you people so inconsistent? You're contradicting your own bloody point.
Re: RE: The Gun Registry Must be Deregistered!!
That's the whole point, and it's so obvious it hardly needs explaining. Except, I guess, to members of the Conservative Party.
Jay said:
That's the whole point, and it's so obvious it hardly needs explaining. Except, I guess, to members of the Conservative Party.
Re: RE: The Gun Registry Must be Deregistered!!
How your twisted mind gets to that logic, I can only imagine. The same logic that Peter Mackay uses, I guess.
Jay said:
How your twisted mind gets to that logic, I can only imagine. The same logic that Peter Mackay uses, I guess.
I know. The Conservative's inability to grasp this fundamental concept is staggering, but they carry on, oblivious to the point.
Like many unbelievable scams, they suck in many people who agree with their views, even though the most cursory thought would explain the point. However, it is unlikely that, in a world where people believe "the DaVinci Code", anyone would think about the point. Instead, they create bizarre theories where some evil force (probably the UN) will take their guns away, leaving them defenseless. And, since they aren't very bright, I guess they would be.
Like many unbelievable scams, they suck in many people who agree with their views, even though the most cursory thought would explain the point. However, it is unlikely that, in a world where people believe "the DaVinci Code", anyone would think about the point. Instead, they create bizarre theories where some evil force (probably the UN) will take their guns away, leaving them defenseless. And, since they aren't very bright, I guess they would be.