The End of Reason

[Twila]

Well, Dexter, you are very unique then. Many preach tolerance but don't practice it.

 

[peapod]

That was a excellent article Jo canadian. And that is exactly how I feel, religion does not have to be banned, but keep it in the congeration, not in the government. Tis the only reason I speak out againist them...I do not want their beliefs in the form of laws and legislation.
Both you and dexter put it much nicer than myself, but thats how I feel also..I just say it in a redneck way. :wink:

 

[Vanni Fucci]

The central problem with organized, assertive religion, of course, is that it endows superstition with a moral and messianic fervor. God-directed superstition can be a lethal force. Indeed, one might argue that this type of force is behind much of the violence around the world. The conflicts in Palestine (Jews v. Muslims), the Balkans (Orthodox Serbians v. Muslims), Northern Ireland (Protestants v. Catholics), Kashmir (Muslims v. Hindus), Indonesia (Muslims v. Timorese Christians) and the Caucasus (Orthodox Russians v. Chechen Muslims) constitute only a few of the places where religion has been the explicit cause of million of deaths in the last ten years.

Sam Harris discusses "the burden of paradise." Why are there suicide bombers? "Because they actually believe what they say they believe. They believe in the literal truth of the Koran ...Why did 19 well-educated, middle class men trade their lives in this world for the privilege of killing thousands of our neighbors? Because they believed that they would go straight to paradise for doing so."

To Harris, condoning the use of superstition as an important social force enables and encourages extremism. "The concessions we have made to religious faith," he maintains, "to the idea that belief can be sanctified by something other than evidence -- have rendered us unable to name, much less address, one of the most pervasive causes of conflict in our world."

This is so absolutely true...when was the last time the news carried a story about an atheist, or a secular humanist murdering people because of their beliefs? How about never!!!

We're far too cool for that nonsense... 8)

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Re: RE: The End of Reason

Well, Dexter, you are very unique then. Many preach tolerance but don't practice it.

Thanks Twila, I'll take that at face value and consider it a compliment. I haven't noticed that you're prone to sarcasm in your other posts, so I assume you say what you mean and mean what you say.

 

[Twila]

Dexter, there was definately NO sarcasm in that post. I truely did mean it.

 

[peapod]

I'm sure people like yourself have no problem "cheerfully" telling people like me were misguided and most likely deluded.

And why should we not Jay, epecially when you seem to feel that we "all" should live by those teachings. Dex said it perfectly, what you believe is just in your head, you have absolutely no proof, the same can be said for what we believe...its all in ones head.

The fact that anyone questions your teachings, you claim percusition. That is a cop out, and when you want to use those teachings that do not even make sense to many people, to have laws and legislations you are going to have to do a much better job conviencing people that what is in "your" head is how the rest of us should live.

By the way you do not need the bible or your concept of a god to live a moral decent life. This should make you very happy.

 

[Twila]

By the way you do not need the bible or your concept of a god to live a moral decent life. This should make you very happy

No, it's not needed. Some require extra guidance though. Which is why so many AA members and NA members are born agains. They require something bigger then themselves to be "good" for.

 

[Jay]

This is so absolutely true...when was the last time the news carried a story about an atheist, or a secular humanist murdering people because of their beliefs? How about never!!!

We're far too cool for that nonsense... 8)

Because communists haven't been known to do that......

 

[Jo Canadian]

Because communists haven't been known to do that

We all know what large groups of people are capeable of BUT...

This is so absolutely true...when was the last time the news carried a story about an atheist, or a secular humanist murdering people because of their beliefs? How about never!!!

...What it implys is that there are many more instances of an individual taking a life based on their religion, or their interpretation thereof. I wouldn't rule out that it has never happened with a secular humanist though, humans are more complicated than that. Even without religion.

 

[peapod]

The communism thing is such a dead horse. We all know it does not work. You sound just like reagan Jay. Using the old "boogie man trick".

 

[Jay]

And why should we not Jay, epecially when you seem to feel that we "all" should live by those teachings.

Suddenly I know what it feels like to be Tibear. God bless him.

I never said, nor implied that any of you heathens should live by any of those teachings.

If you or any of the others want to think I’m deluded and my experiences are just in my head, well guess what. IDGAF.

Dex said it perfectly, what you believe is just in your head, you have absolutely no proof, the same can be said for what we believe...its all in ones head.

The evidence is overwhelmingly
against you and your faith prevents you from examining it critically.

Sinister said that he is basing his opinions of me on his belief that the evidence doesn’t support what I think is happening in the scheme of things.
He even goes so far as to suggest (without knowing me or what I read or what I find interesting) that my faith doesn’t allow me to examine the overwhelming evidence against me. I usually ignore those accusations, but as Sinister seemed to be genuinely trying to be nice about something that could be taken the wrong way I played ball with Dex. I think he is wrong about me, and I think he is wrong that the evidence does not lend itself to the idea that there might be more going on here than meets the eye.

Dex doesn’t believe that what is going on (as he sees it) is just inside his head. He believe this to the point he wishes to cure me of my (what he must think is a mental disorder) faith, and my misinterpretations of my experiences.

If you'd care to share some of those events and feelings and your interpretations of them I'll cheerfully explain that in more detail.

The fact that anyone questions your teachings, you claim percusition. .

They aren’t my teachings Pea, also I don’t say those things.

I simply don’t think that way, so as much as I would like to help you here I can’t.

Tibear might have a better way of approaching this; he has more experience dealing with your accusations than I do.

and when you want to use those teachings that do not even make sense to many people, to have laws and legislations you are going to have to do a much better job conviencing people that what is in "your" head is how the rest of us should live.

You should forward that statement to your federal NDP representative.

By the way you do not need the bible or your concept of a god to live a moral decent life. This should make you very happy.

Since I don’t seem to have all the issues you have with the bible, Christians, and theists in general; it should make you a lot happier than it would make me.



This is the most interesting thing Sinister said.

Sir Isaac Newton was just simply superstitious?

Deeply so. He spent a large part of his life immersed in alchemy and other such mystic nonsense. Newton was not the first great scientist in the modern sense, he was the last great student of what used to be called natural philosophy, which was full of mysticism and magic.

Newton was an amazing man, and this is an interesting point of view that I will sometime look into further.

 

[Jay]

Dan Brown's phenomenal bestseller...

Was proven to base on BS anyways.

Dan Browns best seller is a great read, and a money making machine, that’s it.

 

[Jay]

Because communists haven't been known to do that

We all know what large groups of people are capeable of BUT...

I wasn't aware Lenin, Stalin, Moa and the Khmer Rouge were large groups, I thought they were individual dictators.

 

[Jay]

The communism thing is such a dead horse. We all know it does not work. You sound just like reagan Jay. Using the old "boogie man trick".

Is it Pea? I know you have no respect for those such as Regan and the Pope, who defeated horrible lefty ideals. I wouldn't like them either I suppose If I were a lefty.


Communism isn't a boogie man trick. It is a death machine, unlike anything else the world has seen.

 

[no1important]

Well why hasn't "God" made an appearance every now and then to give us "guidence and Hope". Don't say because we have so called "Free Will" thats the biggest copout ever and the favourite answer of the religious right.

If "God" existed where was he on 9/11, The holocaust , the plague, potatoe famine and many other horrific tragedies throughout time?

EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.

condridictory if you ask me as is:

ISA 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

DEU 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

and this:

Ps.92:12: "The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree."

Isa.57:1: "The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart."
So which is it?

all I can say is I am glad I have common sense unlike the bible.

 

[Reverend Blair]

It also has nothing to do with modern leftism, Jay. The communism you refer to was totalitarian rule more akin to the tenets of the radical right than the informed social democratic causes of the modern left.

 

[MMMike]

Re: RE: The End of Reason

It also has nothing to do with modern leftism, Jay. The communism you refer to was totalitarian rule more akin to the tenets of the radical right than the informed social democratic causes of the modern left.

:roll: Yes, Rev. All despots come from the far right. :roll: To some extent you're right, of course. The far right and the far left are indistinguishable in many respects.

 

[no1important]

Exod. 24:9,10; Amos 9:1; Gen. 26:2; and John 14:9
God CAN be seen:
"And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts." (Ex. 33:23)
"And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend." (Ex. 33:11)
"For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." (Gen. 32:30)

God CANNOT be seen:
"No man hath seen God at any time." (John 1:18 )
"And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live." (Ex. 33:20)
"Whom no man hath seen nor can see." (1 Tim. 6:16)

Explain me that and all the other contridictions in the bible then?

 

[peapod]

Well no Jay you are not quite like tibear. You feel sorry for him? Why? You presume that in 2005 tibear can seriously ask thinking people to ponder the ideas he has about how others should live their lives. He puts them out there, but one can question them. If he does not want them questioned than he should keep them to himself. His faith should be something quiet and personal, there is no need to try and convert, people don't like it, and they don't want it. Attraction rather than promotion works much better.

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: The End of Reason

It also has nothing to do with modern leftism, Jay. The communism you refer to was totalitarian rule more akin to the tenets of the radical right than the informed social democratic causes of the modern left.

Sure, whatever....

I think I made my point.