The End of Reason
- Thread starter Jo Canadian
- Start date
This is interesting to me. My parents were not church going religious people by the time I was born due to a tubal pregnancy that almost killed my mom and the Reverend of their church stating that birth control is a sin.
I was not baptised and nothing religious was ever talked about in my house. However, I went to church with my friends families. this was my choice, not my parents. Growing up I attended several Catholic churches in the area with several friends parents.
My daughter and I use to go to the methodist church just down the road.
I often wondered why I'd be interested since my parents and siblings were not.
Voice of JC it must have been
On the other hand, I was raised in religious-believing family. My father was Catholic, so Mom converted when they got married. We went to Catholic schools. My Grandparents were pretty pious. We have priests and nuns in the family and I can tell you for sure that you've never been hammered until you're exchanging two and three word sentences with a priest because that's as articulate as either of you can be between sips.
On the other side there was also religion, though not a strong connection to the church. Still, the Minister used to come out out to buy milk and have dinner. I remember him and my grandfather talking about evolution, though...might be why there was never much connection to the church there. ;-)
Protestants aren't as prone to getting drunk with priests though, and the German-Apostolic variety don't even like drinking with the Irish-United Church variety in the truck on the way home from the graveyard. Odd that. What's the point of having a funeral without a wake?
On the other side there was also religion, though not a strong connection to the church. Still, the Minister used to come out out to buy milk and have dinner. I remember him and my grandfather talking about evolution, though...might be why there was never much connection to the church there. ;-)
Protestants aren't as prone to getting drunk with priests though, and the German-Apostolic variety don't even like drinking with the Irish-United Church variety in the truck on the way home from the graveyard. Odd that. What's the point of having a funeral without a wake?
Jay said:
I can't take credit for it. It's originally due to the economist, John Maynard Keynes. He bought at auction at Sotheby's in 1936 a collection of Newton's personal journals and notebooks deemed to be "of no scientific value. " After examining them he gave an address to the Royal Society in which he characterized Newton as not the first of the age of reason, but the last of the magicians. It's those documents that show Newton deeply immersed in alchemy and the occult at the same time as he was doing his great scientific work.
Re: RE: The End of Reason
I think that is a profound observation Rev. You are to be congratulated for great wisdom and impeccable judgement.
Reverend Blair said:
I think that is a profound observation Rev. You are to be congratulated for great wisdom and impeccable judgement.
Jay said:
I've never read The Da Vinci Code, but I fully intend to...but I will point out a few things about the book that seem to escape mention by those who seek to debunk it...
Firstly, and most importantly, the book is a work of fiction. While it draws upon history, and presents some facts, it does not need to be absolutely truthful, as we must consider instances of artisitic license in the telling of the tale.
Secondly, as evidenced by the vociferous outrage of the Catholic Church over this work of fiction, Brown must have hit pretty close to the mark on many of the details he's set forth.
Jay said:
While I don't want it to appear as though I'm speaking for Dex, as I fear I would fail miserably, I think you've taken what he was trying to say too personally, Jay.
Dex's assertion was a generalization that can be drawn from observations of those who profess faith in religion. Much like one can draw generalizations about people who are of a particular political affiliation, and the behaviours that they may exhibit.
So at the risk of offending you further, I'll provide you with a link that should explain, at least in part, Dex's position.
The Problem With Beliefs
Re: RE: The End of Reason
Calling them a little stuffy is pretty charitable of you Rev. My mother's father lived in rural southern Ontario, the heart of uptight Protestantism in this country, and he used to tell a tale which may be apocryphal but certainly could be true. There was a young Presbyterian minister who served two churches several miles apart, and one Sunday after a nasty blizzard the roads were blocked and he coudn't get to the second church for services. But the ice on the river had blown clear, so he skated the few miles and made it. He was hauled up before the elders of the congregation to be disciplined for unlawfully having fun on the Sabbath. He got himself off the hook eventually when one of the more freethinking members gave him the opening he needed by asking the critical question, "Did you enjoy it?" Being no fool, he said he didn't, it was cold and miserable, and that made it alright.
Reverend Blair said:
Calling them a little stuffy is pretty charitable of you Rev. My mother's father lived in rural southern Ontario, the heart of uptight Protestantism in this country, and he used to tell a tale which may be apocryphal but certainly could be true. There was a young Presbyterian minister who served two churches several miles apart, and one Sunday after a nasty blizzard the roads were blocked and he coudn't get to the second church for services. But the ice on the river had blown clear, so he skated the few miles and made it. He was hauled up before the elders of the congregation to be disciplined for unlawfully having fun on the Sabbath. He got himself off the hook eventually when one of the more freethinking members gave him the opening he needed by asking the critical question, "Did you enjoy it?" Being no fool, he said he didn't, it was cold and miserable, and that made it alright.
Vanni Fucci said:
Excellent link Vanni, thanks, that does indeed express my position nicely. Couldn't have said it better myself.
Re: RE: The End of Reason
Really? You mean literally, you hear a voice? Or do you mean that metaphorically, you get ideas and feelings that you believe come from Jesus?
Jay said:
Really? You mean literally, you hear a voice? Or do you mean that metaphorically, you get ideas and feelings that you believe come from Jesus?
As typical for me, I'll post this link then cut and run for others to debate. I happened across it a little while after following this thread and it seemed relevent.
War in the Fields of Experience: Making Sense of Religious Empiricism
Kenny Kistler
William Paterson University of New Jersey
http://rideau.carleton.ca/philosophy/cusjp/v17/n2/kistler.html#TopOfPage
War in the Fields of Experience: Making Sense of Religious Empiricism
Kenny Kistler
William Paterson University of New Jersey
http://rideau.carleton.ca/philosophy/cusjp/v17/n2/kistler.html#TopOfPage
So Jay is everything you read in the bible considered the truth? Why so many contridictions in the Bible?
passpatoo said:
This is useless to the discussion passpatoo...your argument has as much merit as saying "Coke tastes better than Pepsi"...the results are entirely subjective, and not conducive to any critical analysis...
So too can we apply empiricism to the delusional rantings of someone suffering from dementia to ascertain their inherent truths, and through empirical analysis, these can be affirmed, but that does not make them true.
The Scientific Method
Proponents of religious assertion and faith must change the nature of the question to conform to their beliefs as they cannot be held up to any application of the scientific method...and therefore cannot be verified as fact.
Theologians tend to run to the limitlessness of philosophy to try to appeal to humankind's innate quest for truth, because they have no purview in the realm of science...and because there is no limits to philosophy, anything can be held as a truth...as when their religious ideology is shown as an untruth, the question will be changed, to allow for the desired result...
This neither proves, nor disproves anything, and so therefore is meaningless to our discussion...
