The End of Reason

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
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I never said that, Mike. I said they were akin to each other.

Have you ever seen the political compass quiz? Most of the political ideas espoused by the modern left fall into the left/libertarian quadrant. Most of the political ideas espoused by the radical right fall into the right/authoritarian quadrant.
 

Jo Canadian

Council Member
Mar 15, 2005
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PEI...for now
The communism you refer to was totalitarian rule more akin to the tenets of the radical right than the informed social democratic causes of the modern left

:roll: Yes, Rev. All despots come from the far right. :roll: To some extent you're right, of course. The far right and the far left are indistinguishable in many respects.

Totalitarian rule is more akin to the the radical right, but communism is an example of the far left, and in the end though they are very similar...Both suck to live in.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
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Re: RE: The End of Reason

Reverend Blair said:
I never said that, Mike. I said they were akin to each other.

Have you ever seen the political compass quiz? Most of the political ideas espoused by the modern left fall into the left/libertarian quadrant. Most of the political ideas espoused by the radical right fall into the right/authoritarian quadrant.

Because high taxes and big government are always considered Libertarian ideals.
 

Jo Canadian

Council Member
Mar 15, 2005
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Because high taxes and big government are always considered Libertarian ideals.

How could society function in large numbers without taxes? No taxes means everybody's on their own and only looking after themselves. I'm sure some groups would get together for mutual benefit by shareing their resources but that would be like having one big country turn into a bunch of city-states.

Big Gov't should spend the money given to them wisely and distribute it where it's needed. Now those are libertarian ideals.
The key word is IDEALS here, we're nowhere near those ideals but if you want society to function as a whole it's better to strive for those ideals.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
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Jo Canadian said:
Because high taxes and big government are always considered Libertarian ideals.

How could society function in large numbers without taxes? No taxes means everybody's on their own and only looking after themselves. I'm sure some groups would get together for mutual benefit by shareing their resources but that would be like having one big country turn into a bunch of city-states.

Big Gov't should spend the money given to them wisely and distribute it where it's needed. Now those are libertarian ideals.
The key word is IDEALS here, we're nowhere near those ideals but if you want society to function as a whole it's better to strive for those ideals.


So I say HIGH taxes, you turn that into NO taxes....whatever works for you.

I say BIG government, you don't change that, and so can I assume you like that part of it?

The key here is Libertarians aren’t for BIG government and HIGH taxes.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
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Re: RE: The End of Reason

Reverend Blair said:
Take the quiz, Jay. I'm betting you land a lot closer to Joe Stalin than Mahatma Ghandi.


I'll get back to you on that.

If your wrong....you owe me atleast one beer. (not Lucky Star Beer either, I mean the good stuff)
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
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Against my better judgment, I’m going to respond to some of the questions you put forth.

no1important said:
Well why hasn't "God" made an appearance every now and then to give us "guidence and Hope". Don't say because we have so called "Free Will" thats the biggest copout ever and the favourite answer of the religious right.


Hmmmm, have you asked him for "guidance and Hope". Are you able to recognize his hand in things….If no is the answer then what can I do for you? How can I help you?

no1important said:
If "God" existed where was he on 9/11, The holocaust , the plague, potatoe famine and many other horrific tragedies throughout time?


Watching? Perhaps setting things in motion…what do you want GOD to come down from the Holy Mount and say “ here I am no1important, now watch…see I just averted a major catastrophe….”


no1important said:
all I can say is I am glad I have common sense unlike the bible.

You have answered your own questions then.


The other questions you have are too ecclesiastical for this thread. If I attempted to divulge into it all, someone would accuse me of preaching, or trying to convert ppl, or some other thing.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
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Re: RE: The End of Reason

Reverend Blair said:
Take the quiz, Jay. I'm betting you land a lot closer to Joe Stalin than Mahatma Ghandi.


I took the test and I'm on the opposite side of the libertarian fence then you, almost exactly.

The test is rather bias though....do I get a beer out of it?
 

Vanni Fucci

Senate Member
Dec 26, 2004
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8th Circle, 7th Bolgia
the-brights.net
Jay said:
Vanni Fucci said:
This is so absolutely true...when was the last time the news carried a story about an atheist, or a secular humanist murdering people because of their beliefs? How about never!!!

We're far too cool for that nonsense... 8)


Because communists haven't been known to do that......

I did not exclude communists from my statement, and for that you were right to speak out against my assertion.

However, I will point out that communism, at its core, does not promote the attrocities that we've seen prevalent in the various communist states. It is because the system is prone to corruption that it soon falls to dictatorial tyranny.

I do not support communism, because I know that the system could never work, as humanity is inherently flawed. Not until reparations have been applied to these flaws, can we see a truly successful communist state. I'm not going to be holding my breath for that change to take place.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
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Winnipeg
I took the test and I'm on the opposite side of the libertarian fence then you, almost exactly.

So you came in as an authoritarian. That would put you closer to Stalin than Ghandi, which was what I predicted. It is you who owes me the beer, Jay.

The test is rather bias though.

No actually, the test is very accurate. It is more accurate than the standard left/right analyses because it recognises that both conservatism and liberalism can be either libertarian or authoritarian.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
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Reverend Blair said:
I took the test and I'm on the opposite side of the libertarian fence then you, almost exactly.

So you came in as an authoritarian. That would put you closer to Stalin than Ghandi, which was what I predicted. It is you who owes me the beer, Jay.

The test is rather bias though.

No actually, the test is very accurate. It is more accurate than the standard left/right analyses because it recognises that both conservatism and liberalism can be either libertarian or authoritarian.


No. I came on the libertarian side, not on the authoritarian side. I'm a right wing libertarian. The same place Friedman is just not as far over as he is.

I like Export beer, or a nice Rickards Red or just one of those cold ones I know you have in the fridge.

As far as the test goes, I think the first question shows the sort of bias it has, but it is a good test.
 

tibear

Electoral Member
Jan 25, 2005
854
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I came in as a Leftist Libertarian(Economic: -.75 Left/Social Libertarian/Authorative: -.82).

Just goes to show you that either quizzes are inaccurate or alot of you have misjudged this book!
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
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Winnipeg
No. I came on the libertarian side, not on the authoritarian side.

But that's not what you said. You said you were on the opposite side of the libertarian fence than me.

You'll get Two Rivers, it's better than Rickards and far better than Ex. I don't have any in the fridge though, I have to go and get some. And tobacco. And Milk Bones. And Onions.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
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Excellent, Two Rivers and a Box of Milk bone. I couldn't be happier.


I should have been clearer about my score.

Now we know were we stand in the scheme of things. Thanks for putting up the link.

I sent it to all my commi friends.
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
10,168
539
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Regina, SK
Jay said:
I know what you meant
Your subsequent remarks indicate you have no idea what I meant and that you didn't understand what I wrote.

I did not say your faith prevents you from examining the evidence against you. You're examining some of it by participating in these forums. I said it prevents you from examining it critically (note that qualifying adverb), which is to say, it prevents you from understanding it. It's not consistent with things you've already decided a priori are true, so you reject it.

I said there are simpler explanations than the ones you've chosen. That's what I meant I'd explain in more detail, if you'd care to describe some of the events that have led you to this faith. For instance, you could claim that you've had feelings you understand as the Spirit moving within you, and I'd provide the simpler explanation. For that particular one, there are many.

I think he is wrong that the evidence does not lend itself to the idea that there might be more going on here than meets the eye.

That's not what I said either. Of course there's more going on here than meets the eye, if modern science makes anything plain at all, it's that. I simply don't think it's what you think it is, and my standards of evidence are a little more demanding than yours.

...to the point he wishes to cure me of my (what he must think is a mental disorder) faith...

Being misguided, which is the word I used, isn't a mental disorder. It's just being wrong. I also said "possibly deluded." Note the qualification. Delusion isn't necessarily a mental disorder either. If you're hearing voices or hallucinating angels in your kitchen I'd have to say you're delusional, but you've given no indication of that.

If you're going to persist in responding with snide parenthetical remarks and what appear to be deliberate misinterpretations based on ignoring key words, it's going to be difficult to talk about this.

For whatever it's worth, I have no real opinion of you at all yet, I don't know enough about you to legitimize making a judgement. I do, however, strongly disagree with some of the opinions you've expressed, and I've always been deeply curious about how people come to form such opinions. I begin to suspect the human brain is somehow hard-wired for religious belief, and I think that's a subject worth exploring. If you want to continue to play ball on that basis, I'm willing.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
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"I begin to suspect the human brain is somehow hard-wired for religious belief, "

It is Friday, so forgive me for ignoring the rest of your post....but this is something that quickly came to my mind about the above comment you made.

Some where in the NT Christ said...."my sheep will hear my voice"

I believe I'm one of them, because I hear his voice. How do we explore such things, I dunno.

Now folks, that doesn't mean its open season on calling Jay a sheep.....but I've been called worse.