Good grief, there has NEVER been a simple, peaceful, non-political Christianity..........It began with GOD arranging the slaughter of "His only begotten Son" and it goes downhill from there. Christianity stole all it's events from older religions, it has wiped out most of the more benign natural beliefs. It brought prejudice ...regarding other religions, races and even gender. It still enforces bigotry and hatred. If you wish I can quote all kinds of biblical verses to prove all this. Christianity along with other organized religions are and have been the basis for most of the world's problems. Remember some of the first words in Christianity were "Go forth and multiply". Unfortunately, we have done this until the state of our planet is in dire jeopardy and we are starting to fight over what is left!!
The Christian Lie :)
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Good grief, there has NEVER been a simple, peaceful, non-political Christianity..........It began with GOD arranging the slaughter of "His only begotten Son" and it goes downhill from there. Christianity stole all it's events from older religions, it has wiped out most of the more benign natural beliefs. It brought prejudice ...regarding other religions, races and even gender. It still enforces bigotry and hatred. If you wish I can quote all kinds of biblical verses to prove all this. Christianity along with other organized religions are and have been the basis for most of the world's problems. Remember some of the first words in Christianity were "Go forth and multiply". Unfortunately, we have done this until the state of our planet is in dire jeopardy and we are starting to fight over what is left!!
Hitler proclaimed himself a Catholic and Stalin was a seminarian at one time. Both claimed to be biblical adherents. I agree with you that they had no business calling themselves Christian. But then, neither did Queen Victoria or King Leopold and both killed even more people than either of these 20th century murderers while proclaiming themselves children of Christian Providence. There is no question that Marxist atheists like Mao, Pol Pot, and others committed atrocities. But this does not mean Christians or Christian professing types were not among those criminals.
It's been tried before. Never seems to work out that well. No matter how many Christians you annihilate, terrorize and otherwise deny freedom of religion they always keep coming back and getting stronger. Pesky Christians!
You're kidding right? The numbers that Stalin killed alone amounted to what would have been one fifth the population of Europe at the time of Leopold. Check your history stats gopher.
What it does mean, gopher, and why it is brought up in the first place, is that if you look closely you will discover that the great myth of religion being the cause of all wars, yadda, yadda, a convenient way for people to close their minds off because the truth is never that simple, and the greatest numbers of people in any century killed by governments of any kind for any reason are by far done by anti-Christian, anti-Jewish atheists who did so in large measure in the name of atheism, not entirely, but in large measure.
But let us play the odds.
We do know that the Christian faith of whatever stripe, denounces genocide, denounces killing anyone on the basis of their religion or lack thereof.
(If Christianity was intolerant as it is hyperventilatingly described by some, where did all the atheists come from in Canada, or America, or western Europe for that matter? They should have all been eliminated by now! Think!)
Why does Christianity denounce genocide, or murder for that matter? There is a very good reason, found in the faith itself for those who care to look. Each person is valued intrinsically because of their humanity. This comes from a belief that God values each individual for their humanity.
Now, on the other side. If every person is a mere collection of chemicals animated by electrical impulses and only the result of an accident of the universe, completely random, where is that intrinsic value? It seems to me that it would be quite easy to convince oneself and cohorts with the power of life and death, under that value system, to eliminate large numbers of those human beings for whatever reason came to mind.
Looking back over history, at the actual numbers, it is clear that Christians or those who claimed to be Christians, have violated their own faith and committed murder, even mass murder on occasion. But it is important to recognize that it was indeed a violation.
On the other hand, the Stalins and Pol Pots and Maos of the world were violating what? Their belief system? If so, how so?
So, if I am a betting man, regardless of my own faith or lack thereof, the odds of survival are better under Christians than atheists, because most of the time, when Christians are following their faith, they will not annihilate me as simply a random collection of cells, even though I might think that is all that I really am, simply because their faith teaches them that I am intrinsically valuable as a human being.
Well, cliffy, you do have a problem then don't you? "It is the dogma that is dangerous, not the teachings behind it." That is a dogmatic statement if I ever heard one. The fact is, you have dogmas that you live by. Everyone does. If you had to re-think everything every morning when you got up you would never leave the house.
You just don't like the dogmas of certain organized religions. Fair enough. But dogma itself is not the problem. Perhaps you just want what C.S.Lewis described as a "tame" God. One that you can define for yourself and who doesn't interfere with your life and your particular moral values. A guilt free life perhaps for a time but if you really think about it long and hard, what's the point of believing in a God at all? That is where a lot of people have realized that agnosticism at minimum (hardly logically tenable) or atheism is probably the more realistic position to take. Perhaps that is why many just presume atheism where someone denounces religion.
But hey, the original Christians were denounced as atheists (cannibals too) by the Romans, so you are in good company.
My goodness, you are a bigger mental masturbater than I am. I may believe in the possibility that some higher consciousness created the Universe but I do not believe it has any time or inclination to bother with such insignificant beings as humans. And I was referring to religious dogma. You can apply to whatever you want but it is not what I apply it to. The only authority I recognize in my life is me. I kiss no beings butt, seen or unseen. I don't see what that has to do with having reverence for life. The closest I will come to acknowledging a higher form of life would be the living biosphere from which all life on this planet springs, called Mother Earth by the indigenous peoples.To me, spirituality is dynamic, changing each day as new information and experiences augment my data base. There is no way I could explain my belief system to another because is is too fluid for me to put into words. It would be like trying to explain a sunset to a blind person.
SimpleSimon, Have you even read the bible?? If so you sure never missed all these examples of God's instructions of reasons to kill.
The act of murder is rampant in the Bible. In much of the Bible, especially the Old Testament, there are laws that command that people be killed for absurd reasons such as working on the Sabbath, being gay, cursing your parents, or not being a virgin on your wedding night. In addition to these crazy and immoral laws, there are plenty of examples of God's irrationality by his direct killing of many people for reasons that defy any rational explanation such as killing children who make fun of bald people, and the killing of a man who tried to keep the ark of God from falling during transport. There are also countless examples of mass murders commanded by God, including the murder of women, infants, and children.
Go to the Evil Bible.com if you find the actual book too difficult to read.
The following passages are a very small percentage of the total passages approving of murder in the Bible. They are divided here into three parts: 1) Capital Punishment Crimes, 2) God's Murders for Stupid Reasons, 3) Murdering Children, and 4) Miscellaneous Murders. This list is long, but it barely scratches the surface of all the murders approved by the God of the Bible.
The act of murder is rampant in the Bible. In much of the Bible, especially the Old Testament, there are laws that command that people be killed for absurd reasons such as working on the Sabbath, being gay, cursing your parents, or not being a virgin on your wedding night. In addition to these crazy and immoral laws, there are plenty of examples of God's irrationality by his direct killing of many people for reasons that defy any rational explanation such as killing children who make fun of bald people, and the killing of a man who tried to keep the ark of God from falling during transport. There are also countless examples of mass murders commanded by God, including the murder of women, infants, and children.
Go to the Evil Bible.com if you find the actual book too difficult to read.
The following passages are a very small percentage of the total passages approving of murder in the Bible. They are divided here into three parts: 1) Capital Punishment Crimes, 2) God's Murders for Stupid Reasons, 3) Murdering Children, and 4) Miscellaneous Murders. This list is long, but it barely scratches the surface of all the murders approved by the God of the Bible.
Not sure you are right about that, Colpy. the largest number of people killed in the 20th century occurred during the period from 1930 to about 1945. Most of the people involved were not atheists.
No, it ain't right. But, some gain comfort from the thought. Who am I to correct them. It eases their "original" sin.