That India-Pakistan thing

Twin_Moose

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India claims airstrikes on Pakistan 'terror camps' across disputed Kashmir border

An Indian minister has said that air force jets have struck “terror camps” across the ceasefire line in Kashmir, the first aerial bombing over the disputed border since the country went to war with Pakistan in 1971.
“The military has taken this necessary step for the country’s security. It was an act of extreme valour. PM [Narendra] Modi had earlier given the armed forces the freedom to take action. Today, the entire country is with the forces,” said Prakash Javadekar, the human resources development minister, in the first official acknowledgement of the operation.
The early morning incursion, which the Pakistanis say caused no casualties or damage, comes amid the highest tensions after a suicide attack on a paramilitary convoy that killed at least 40 security personnel earlier this month.
“Air Force carried out aerial strike early morning today at terror camps across the LoC (Line of Control) and Completely destroyed it,” the Indian minister of state for agriculture Gajendra Singh Shekhawat said on Twitter.
The Indian army and senior ministers have yet to officially comment but sources told an Indian news agency that 12 fighter jets had crossed into Pakistani territory and destroyed a militant training camp.
Pakistan’s armed forces spokesman major-general Asif Ghafoor said on Tuesday morning there had been contact between the two countries’ aircraft after a breach by the Indian side.
“Indian Air Force violated Line of Control,” Ghafoor tweeted around 5am local time. “Pakistan Air Force immediately scrambled. Indian aircrafts gone back.”
He added in a tweet two hours later: “Indian aircrafts intruded from Muzafarabad sector. Facing timely and effective response from Pakistan Air Force released payload in haste while escaping which fell near Balakot. No casualties or damage.”
He said the aircraft did not intrude beyond 3 to 4 miles over the ceasefire border known as the “line of control” based on lines established after the first war the two countries fought over Kashmir shortly after independence in 1947.
“Under forced hasty withdrawal aircrafts released payload which had free fall in open area,” he said “No infrastructure got hit, no casualties.”
His comments indicate the strike hit a small village called Balakot near the ceasefire border.
Balakot is also the name of a larger city about 50 miles from the border. Significantly, it is the Pakistani province of Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa, outside the territory that India claims as its own.
Indian news agency Asian News International quoted Indian air force sources claiming 12 Mirage fighter jets had struck “a major terrorist camp” over the border with 1,000 kg of explosives. The attack took place around 3.30am, the agency claimed.
While exchanges of artillery and light weapons over line are very common, intentional incursions by aircraft have not been publicly acknowledged since the two countries fought a war in 1971.
Military planes could be heard over Srinagar, the capital of Kashmir, in the early hours of Tuesday morning. There has been a large troop buildup in the region in recent days and doctors have been advised to cancel leave and stockpile medicines.
More than 300 separatist activists have been detained in past days, fuelling rumours that the Indian government was preparing to respond to the Pakistanis.
 

Twin_Moose

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A brief history

India and Pakistan need to stop beating the drums of war and seek a way out of confrontation

The war of words between nuclear-armed India and Pakistan is a reminder that the ceasefire line dividing the Himalayan state of Kashmir remains, in the words of former US president Bill Clinton, “the most dangerous place in the world”. This month’s confrontation was sparked when a suicide bomber blew up a convoy of more than 40 Indian soldiers in India’s Kashmir, the deadliest terror strike in decades. Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM), a terrorist group based in Pakistan, claimed responsibility for the attack. The Himalayan region of Kashmir is claimed by both India and Pakistan and the two fought three wars over it since it was split between them in 1947. Over the weekend both Delhi and Islamabad beat the drums of war across the roof of the world.
The greatest risk is a miscalculation by India or Pakistan. Delhi ought to resist the urge to respond militarily, not least because of the chance of escalation. Pakistan, for its part, ought to move decisively against terrorist groups which despite being banned operate with impunity on its soil. Both need to seek a way out of confrontation. There is a nonchalance, often about how a war between these historic rivals could be contained. Yet in 1999, when Indian forces were on the verge of routing Pakistani troops which had crossed the border and captured mountain peaks in the Kargil region, Islamabad began preparing its nuclear weapons for deployment. The world stood on the precipice of an all-out regional war which would have led not only to tens of millions of deaths but whose fallout would have crippled global agricultural supplies. Mr Clinton forced the Pakistani establishment to step away from the nuclear abyss.
The leadership in both India and Pakistan have to avoid escalating a foreign crisis that they cannot back down from. With general elections later this year, domestic politics will shape how India’s Narendra Modi will respond to the bombing. Mr Modi has ramped up the rhetoric in campaign rallies vowing to “take revenge for each and every drop of blood shed”. The 20-year-old suicide bomber was a Kashmiri, leading to awful reprisals against Kashmiri students in other parts of India. It is shameful that it took India’s supreme court to chastise the government before Mr Modi said Kashmiris should be kept safe. India’s prime minister must seek peace in restive Kashmir. His militaristic approach has pushed the state to the brink of disaster. Locking up political activists will not help, nor will remoulding Kashmir’s constitutional status to the disadvantage of locals.
Pakistan’s new prime minister, Imran Khan, is also playing to the domestic gallery by warning of his country’s retaliation. Islamabad says it has closed down JeM’s headquarters in its Punjab province, although Pakistan’s record of briefly cracking down on terror groups only to relax controls when the pressure eases is a not a good sign. The real power in Pakistan is the nation’s military and its officials tweeted that they are “fully prepared for a befitting response to any Indian aggression or misadventure”. It is dangerous to think nuclear-armed nations can engage in a tit-for-tat spiral. The Pakistani army has got used to the idea that its nuclear weapons can prevent Indian conventional military superiority from punishing its support of anti-India terror groups. But two years ago Indian forces did conduct cross-border raids after a JeM attack, though thankfully tensions abated. Every serious crisis now risks a potential nuclear exchange at the outset. Much more is needed to move the two nations away from a vicious circle that binds them.
 

Hoid

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Kashmir long thought to be the likely Sarajevo for World War Last
 

Cliffy

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It is all Britain's fault for the screw up. Like in the muddled east, they knew that separating Pakistan and India would cause unrest nad it is to England's advantage to destabilize both. "If we can't have our empire, we will make such a mess."
 

Twin_Moose

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Pakistani Military Says It Shot Down 2 Indian Fighters, Capturing Pilots

NEW DELHI — Pakistan’s military said Wednesday that it shot down two Indian fighter jets that had entered Pakistani airspace, capturing two pilots, in an escalation of hostilities just a day after Indian fighter jets crossed the disputed Kashmir region to launch an airstrike within Pakistan.
India’s government confirmed later Wednesday that one of its MiG-21 fighter jets had been “lost” as it thwarted an attempt by Pakistan’s air force to strike an unspecified target inside India. In the engagement, a Pakistani aircraft was shot down by an Indian fighter jet, New Delhi claimed.
“We have unfortunately lost one MiG-21. The pilot is missing in action. Pakistan has claimed that he is in their custody. We are ascertaining the facts,” Raveesh Kumar said at a news conference in New Delhi, the chief spokesman for India’s Ministry of External Affairs.
Mr. Kumar declined to take any questions and did not respond to claims by Pakistan’s military that it had shot down a second Indian jet. The spokesman did not comment on Pakistan’s claims that it currently held two Indian pilots, instead of the single pilot Mr. Kumar said was missing.
Earlier on Wednesday, Pakistan’s military said it had conducted its first airstrike against unspecified Indian targets, though it said no Pakistani aircraft crossed the border. And the military rejected India’s claim that a Pakistani fighter jet had been shot down.
There are fears that tensions between the nuclear-armed neighbors could escalate after Prime Minister Imran Khan of Pakistan promised on Tuesday to retaliate for an incursion by Indian jets hours before. Those airstrikes were the first time since 1971 that the Indian Air Force had crossed the Line of Control, the de facto border between the Indian- and Pakistani-held areas of Kashmir, to strike inside Pakistan.
Pakistan’s chief military spokesman, Major General Asif Ghafoor, said in a news conference on Wednesday afternoon that Pakistan’s air force had struck six targets inside India, without crossing into the country’s airspace. It was unclear what was struck; Major General Ghafoor described the strikes as being in an open area to make sure there was “no human loss or collateral damage.”
The Indian Air Force responded by entering into Pakistan’s airspace, he added, and two warplanes were shot down.
“Our ground forces arrested two pilots; one of them was injured and has been shifted to C.M.H., and he will be taken care of. The other one is with us,” Major General Ghafoor said, using the initials for the Combined Military Hospital complex.
By Wednesday afternoon, the Indian government shut down the airspace over parts of the country’s north that host military facilities, including Jammu, Srinagar, Amritsar, Leh and Dehradun, according to Rakesh Asthana, the director General of the Bureau of Civil Aviation and Security.
Pakistan also shut down large parts of its airspace, including major airports, according to a notice issued by the country’s Civil Aviation Authority.
In the Indian-controlled parts of Kashmir, volunteers painted large red crosses on the roofs of hospitals in an effort to keep them from being accidentally struck by airstrikes or artillery.
Troop movements were reported within both countries, including a tank column that temporarily shut down a highway in the western Indian state of Rajasthan, hundreds of miles south of Kashmir near the border with southern Pakistan.
In a televised speech, Mr. Khan said, “We waited, and today we took action,” shooting down two Indian aircraft after being “forced to retaliate” for the Indian airstrikes on Tuesday. But he asserted he had no desire for war.
“I am talking to India: We need to use wisdom and sagacity. All big wars have been due to miscalculation. No one knew how the war would end,” he said. “My question to India is that given the weapons we have, can we afford miscalculation?”
He added: “We should solve our problems through dialogue.”
In Indian-controlled Kashmir, residents and officials of Budgam district said that another Indian aircraft — it was unclear whether it was a helicopter or plane — had crashed in an open field there at about 10:15 a.m. local time.
“We have recovered the dead body of the pilot,” said Syed Sehrish Asgar, the deputy commissioner of Budgam district.
Rashid Ahmad Mir, a resident of Budgam, said he heard a loud crash and looked out his window to find smoke billowing out from a nearby field. He rushed to the scene of the flames and found a charred body.
It was unclear whether that crash was related in any way to the air battle reported by Pakistan.
In the early hours of Tuesday morning, India’s Air Force entered Pakistan to strike what the government claimed was a training camp belonging to the Jaish-e-Mohammed militant group in Balakot, Khyber-Pakhtunkwha Province, resulting in “heavy casualties.” But the Pakistani government and residents of the area reached by telephone said the strikes instead struck an open ravine, resulting in minimal damage.
Those strikes were in response to the Feb. 14 suicide bombing by Jaish-e-Mohammed on an Indian paramilitary convoy in Kashmir, which New Delhi vowed to respond to. The suicide bombing killed 40 Indian soldiers, the worst incident in Kashmir in three decades.
Jaish-e-Mohammed is classified as a terrorist group by the United Nations and blacklisted. Although the group is formally banned by Pakistan’s government, American and Indian officials say it operates freely in the country, which Islamabad denies.
In decades of conflict, India and Pakistan have each downed dozens of aircraft. In 1965, during the first major war since Partition, it is estimated that Pakistan destroyed more than 50 Indian aircraft and lost about 20 planes. In 1971, when fighting erupted in East Pakistan, now known as Bangladesh, it is estimated that the Indian Air Force lost more 40 aircraft and the Pakistanis lost more than 70.
Most recently, when fighting erupted in the skies over Kashmir in 1999, at least one Pakistani naval aircraft was downed by an Indian fighter jet. All 16 people aboard were killed.
India’s governing party, led by Prime Minister Narendra Modi, is in the middle of a fiercely contested election season, with polls to be held this spring. In the aftermath of the suicide bombing on its paramilitary forces earlier this month, many Indian voters called for vengeance against Pakistan, and Mr. Modi vowed to execute it.
In an effort to defuse tensions, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo called the foreign ministers of both India and Pakistan on Tuesday evening.
“I expressed to both ministers that we encourage India and Pakistan to exercise restraint, and avoid escalation at any cost. I also encouraged both ministers to prioritize direct communication and avoid further military activity,” according to a statement from Mr. Pompeo’s office.
Despite the tension, analysts found reason to remain hopeful that the situation would not escalate further.
“Given the fact that no one has declared war and that Pakistan did not carry out airstrikes across international border but from within Line of Control, that suggests there’s a certain amount of restraint being exercised by both sides. There’s an implicit desire to keep this contained so I don’t see a much larger escalation in the days ahead,” said Happymon Jacob, an associate professor at Jawaharlal Nehru University in New Delhi who monitors violence along the border.
“We will likely see third parties like the United States or Russia get involved to make sure this doesn’t escalate. At this point is more messaging for the domestic populations, to show that each side is in charge and won’t be cowed,” Mr. Jacob added.
In Pakistan, Mr. Khan said he was meeting with various government bodies on Wednesday to formulate a response to India, including the National Command Authority — the body that oversees the deployment and management of the country’s nuclear arms.
The American government has typically played an important role diffusing tensions between India and Pakistan, shuttling between the two rivals in past flare-ups. But President Trump has soured on Pakistan while drawing closer to India since coming to office in 2017.
Early last year, Mr. Trump cut some $1.3 billion in military assistance to Pakistan because of the country’s support of terrorist groups. Pakistan’s military denies those accusations.

A good read on the latest timeline of events

The Latest: Turkey concerned over Pakistan-India tensions
 

Twin_Moose

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It is all Britain's fault for the screw up. Like in the muddled east, they knew that separating Pakistan and India would cause unrest nad it is to England's advantage to destabilize both. "If we can't have our empire, we will make such a mess."

That's what happens when you paint religious, and cultural tribes with the same broad brush.
 

Blackleaf

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I blame Abdul, the bulk packer at our bathroom products warehouse (I'm a man-up truck driver/order picker). He went back to his Indian homeland on Thursday for three weeks then all the shit kicks off. Definitely his fault.
 
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Hoid

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Trump helping to destabilize nuke regimes.
I can see where that would break you up
 

Blackleaf

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Have you seen that Indian pilot's moustache? It's a great work of art.