Terrorist attack in London

[Ocean Breeze]

I can't prove this, but I believe that part of all the money we spend on oil ends up in the hands of the terrorists..so,in a way,we are responsible for whatever they do.

this reminds me of the intent to follow the money trail when looking for "terrorist" groups. Wonder how successful this has been.

 

[Jo Canadian]

I can't prove this, but I believe that part of all the money we spend on oil ends up in the hands of the terrorists..so,in a way,we are responsible for whatever they do.

this reminds me of the intent to follow the money trail when looking for "terrorist" groups. Wonder how successful this has been.

Good point. I'm sure the co-ordination, planning, and execution of the London attacks were not cheap. Somewhere there's a paper trail, a transaction or something...

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Somewhere there's a paper trail, a transaction or something...

indeed. this is why , doing the forensics is so important. Suspect that most of these groups operate with cash.....(whatever the currency).....but they still have to communicate with each other. ...so communication devices would factor in too.

 

[Jo Canadian]

Somewhere there's a paper trail, a transaction or something...

indeed. this is why , doing the forensics is so important. Suspect that most of these groups operate with cash.....(whatever the currency).....but they still have to communicate with each other. ...so communication devices would factor in too.

Unless they're using Afghanistan currency. You know, Three goats and a lotus for a detonator. That may be hard to trace.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Somewhere there's a paper trail, a transaction or something...

indeed. this is why , doing the forensics is so important. Suspect that most of these groups operate with cash.....(whatever the currency).....but they still have to communicate with each other. ...so communication devices would factor in too.

Unless they're using Afghanistan currency. You know, Three goats and a lotus for a detonator. That may be hard to trace.

thanks Jo. you made me giggle and I needed that.. :wink:

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Somewhere there's a paper trail, a transaction or something...

indeed. this is why , doing the forensics is so important. Suspect that most of these groups operate with cash.....(whatever the currency).....but they still have to communicate with each other. ...so communication devices would factor in too.

According to former German Defense Minister Andreas Von Buelow, al Qaeda is not that crafty.

[Source: Tagesspiegel, Jan. 13] PARTIAL TRANSLATION

like assailants who, in their preparations,
leave tracks behind them like a herd of stampeding elephants?
They made payments with credit cards with their own names;
they reported to their flight instructors with their own names.
They left behind rented cars with flight manuals in Arabic
for jumbo jets. They took with them, on their suicide trip,
wills and farewell letters, which fall into the hands of the FBI,
because they were stored in the wrong place
and wrongly addressed. Clues were left like behind
like in a child's game of hide-and-seek,
which were to be followed!

 

[Nascar_James]

Re: RE: Terrorist attack in London

[/quote]
Example: I saw an Arab woman beat her dog with a 2x4 because he was barking. I don't think that way. How can you reason with someone like that? I'm sorry, but I think this has gone beyond psychology.

Bull Dog[/quote]

She should have been arrested for cruelty to animals.

 

[Nascar_James]

What the brits really need to do is find out who is responsible for this terrorist attack. If it is a result of terrorists living within the U.K., but originate from other countries, then the U.K. must ask itself, what is wrong with their immigration policies.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that dramatically reducing or halting altogether immigration (like the US has done) from countries where terrorists originate (or also countries that harbor terrorists), will go a long way to eliminate the risk of a terrorist attack.

this is a multi faceted issue.......and must be/is probably being approached from many "fronts". The Brits are no fools. They have a long history in their nation......but how this will be resolved , remains to be seen. Blair better be bloody smart now. He can start by distancing himself from the bush regime. (tactfully and politely.....quietly....and make BRITAIN his main concern. He kinda lost it for a while when he ganged up with bush)

Wrong approach. By distancing himself from his closest ally and friend, Blair would play right into the hands of the terrorists. We should never cave in to the terrorists, no matter what. This is a long term war and we need to keep up the fight otherwise the terrorists will win.

both bush and blair will have to deal with the Iraq issue in a more constructive way. re: distancing, it is HOW it is done. I did say, tactfully, politely.......and does not imply that blair is not part of the collective international attempts to deal with terrorism. He must no longer appear to be a bush lap dog.....but a man on his own merit within the global community .

Spain distanced itself from bush , and still continues to be part of the global community in dealing with terrorism as it continues to deal with it on a national level.

On a national level? Then who will go after the international terrorists, like those in IRAQ? Both Bush and Blair must keep up their efforts in going after terrorists all over the globe, including IRAQ. Do you really think countries that support and harbor terrorists will go after them on a national level? HA! Both the US and the UK should continue to be strong players in this fight. In addition, IRAQ is not yet capable of handling theterrorists on it's own, so they will require outside help.

 

[bulldog]

Example: I saw an Arab woman beat her dog with a 2x4 because he was barking.

and I saw an American tourist doing this very same thing.--at a ski resort. (and believe me, I and a few others intervened) Human nature is human nature.

No one is talking psych as in therapy. The fact that terrorism has a strong psychological componant is a given. Othewise there would be no response of fear , anger etc. or desire for revenge etc. The psychological componant applies in how to better comprehend this mindset. Have been hearing more and more about this aspect on various GOOD TV channels now. and the psychologists on the panel indicate that this componant cannot be ignored. It is also an important componant in outsmarting them. Psychology plays a big part in how come some turn to terrorism in the first place. We are not talking research or diagnosis here. We are talking something along the lines of forensic psychology/psychiatry and how it can be utilized to regain control again. As it stands now.........the "terrorist" groups hold the controlling cards. They use the element of surprise. ( a psychological factor). and other techniques which puts them one step ahead.

No, yes, no, yes. I am a cognitive psychologist, so I"ll argue you into the ground over this point. "Psychology plays a big part in how come some turn to terrorism in the first place."

No. Psychology is far too broad a term. It is the science of understanding human behavior. What causes some to turn to terrorism is upbringing - nuture. When human life has no value except to kill others, that upbringing is perverted. Intertwined in this perverted upbringing - here we go - is a religion that condones it.

Yes, we have perverted upbringing in the US and Canada in the form of child molestation as an example. Our religion does not endorse it! We exact punishment. Don't overgeneralise.

You can't possibly understand the Muslims -nor they, us. Heck, the Americans and the Canadians are entirely too busy backbiting. Let's focus that silly business on something we can mutually benefit from - defense mechanisms. Please let me have your
ideas on these accepted methods of protection:

Denial
Suppression
Reaction Formation
Projection
Displacement
Rationalization
Intellectualization
Undoing
Isolation of affect
Regression
Sublimation

OK - go.

Bull Dog


And, BTW, it is not the norm in the US or Canada for people to mistreat animals. They go to jail, or they are fined. In Iran, it is acceptable. It's normal. That's the difference.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

What causes some to turn to terrorism is upbringing - nuture

let's follow that premise for a bit.

How many siblings does OBL have??? Quite a number , if I recall correctly. Here is a family that did not want for much.....financially etc. How come one member of this family turned to terrorism , while the remaining did not??? What made him different from the rest??? Interested in your assessment. Be as technical (psychologically speaking) as you like. My background is psychiatry/ with some psychology research.....behavioral. ......so I can follow it. Thanks.


(agree, psychology is too broad a term.......but without going into technical terms , it is "convenient." Not everyone has a psych background. And many still ignore that componant anyhow)

 

[Ocean Breeze]

On a national level?

yes, as each country (leader) must be held accountable for fostering, protecting these terrorist groups. The ideal would be having an oversite governing (neutral ) but international agency monitoring it. It is not just a US problem..... and it has to be a collective group approach.

for eg: bush fostered terrorism by invading Iraq un necessarily when the focus should have remained on terrorism. He should be held accountable. There were no links to terrorism in Iraq until the invasion. Not saying that internal "terror" did not take place........but it was contained. It could have been dealt with later and in other ways.

Just watched a docu on this entire issue with OBL et al as the focus ......and the consensus of the panel ( experts in the field ) is that Iraq , once destabilized invited the terrorist groups into the area. .......and as long as it is unstable , it will continue to be a haven of sorts. The fact remains: bush blew it big time .....when it comes to the terrorist issue , and many other nations have paid dearly for it. Iraq is one hot spot now and is a new "justification" for more terrorism. He has angered the Muslim world ......and it will take a long time to resolve this. All he had to do is stay focussed on the main problem......but in his over inflated arrogance, he really thought he could handle two wars , destabilize two countries at the same time.....with little consideration to the repercussions. Now we have Afganistan heating up again.

 

[moghrabi]

So are you saying it is hard for you to understand me. I am an Arab, a Muslim, and an mmigrant to Canada. I am not a terrorist nor I beat dogs with 4x2.

Let me tell you how it works. Your most powerful country comes and invades, kills, maims the citizens of a country. This little country is not allowed to have arms to match yours. The weak will resort to anything to free him/herself. Even terrorism. They call it freedom fighting.

As for the psychological differences between you and I is of no importance when it comes to attacking me or me attacking you. I believe if I come to your house and invade it you will terrorize me anyway you will be able to.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

I think Lawrence of Arabia should be required viewing for all politicians...

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: Terrorist attack in London

So are you saying it is hard for you to understand me. I am an Arab, a Muslim, and an mmigrant to Canada. I am not a terrorist nor I beat dogs with 4x2.

Let me tell you how it works. Your most powerful country comes and invades, kills, maims the citizens of a country. This little country is not allowed to have arms to match yours. The weak will resort to anything to free him/herself. Even terrorism. They call it freedom fighting.

As for the psychological differences between you and I is of no importance when it comes to attacking me or me attacking you. I believe if I come to your house and invade it you will terrorize me anyway you will be able to.

Those "freedom fighters" don't have very good aim, they kill Iraqi citizens, unless you are speaking of the Palestinians that strap bombs around 12 year old children.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

hiya mog.

As for the psychological differences

as close as I am able to ascertain, not sure the poster (psychologist .....apparently) addresses the fact that people are people and have feelings that are in common. All PEOPLE, regardless of creed, etc..... have the capacity for love, compassion "hate" anger, resentment, and FEAR. anxiety, depression , grief etc. IF a population, no matter where, is mistreated , it is bound to react in a similar way. If a population is treated with respect , compassion, it will respond in kind. Same with individuals.

the issue seems to be more "cultural" .......and here again, mutual respect is called for.

Who would not be enraged as they watch their cultural artifacts, their long history, be destroyed by foreign bombs??? Who would not be enraged , by seeing their fellow man be killed and maimed by FOREIGN bombs????? Particularly when this same "foreigner" has no idea of the culture , the people , etc. and is only interested in pilfering the resources..

The Iraqis are not stupid. Nor are Muslims. Ever since bush LIED about invading Iraq and invading it.........there have been a series of disasters. Why in heck would any sane person go in and destroy a nation with such a rich history , in order to rebuild it??? A sane person would NOT.

 

[bulldog]

Re: RE: Terrorist attack in London

So are you saying it is hard for you to understand me. I am an Arab, a Muslim, and an mmigrant to Canada. I am not a terrorist nor I beat dogs with 4x2.

As for the psychological differences between you and I is of no importance when it comes to attacking me or me attacking you. I believe if I come to your house and invade it you will terrorize me anyway you will be able to.

Sorry, but you would not be welcome in my house. :roll: I have a right to feel safe in my house, in my neighborhood, in my city, and in my country. Middle Easterners make me nervous. My ancestors built this country and made it what it is today, and yours did not. I do not invite strangers into my house, and I have never terrorized any one in my life.

Bull Dog

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Those "freedom fighters" don't have very good aim, they kill Iraqi citizens,

Nor do the US BOMBS......... as consider the "collateral " damage and killing of inocent Iraqis . but heck, the US does not do body counts.........in other words, they could care less about how many they kill. Not much different from the "terrorists" is it???

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Re: RE: Terrorist attack in London

So are you saying it is hard for you to understand me. I am an Arab, a Muslim, and an mmigrant to Canada. I am not a terrorist nor I beat dogs with 4x2.

As for the psychological differences between you and I is of no importance when it comes to attacking me or me attacking you. I believe if I come to your house and invade it you will terrorize me anyway you will be able to.

Sorry, but you would not be welcome in my house. :roll: I have a right to feel safe in my house, in my neighborhood, in my city, and in my country. Middle Easterners make me nervous. My ancestors built this country and made it what it is today, and yours did not. I do not invite strangers into my house, and I have never terrorized any one in my life.

Bull Dog

sorry, you just did "terrorize" by being prejudiced , and verbally being rejecting. However, it is your choice. Personally, I would never even want to "meet" someone like this (yourself , with this attitude)....... and if I did.....it would be in polite passing. Nothing more.

 

[I think not]

Those "freedom fighters" don't have very good aim, they kill Iraqi citizens,

Nor do the US BOMBS......... as consider the "collateral " damage and killing of inocent Iraqis . but heck, the US does not do body counts.........in other words, they could care less about how many they kill. Not much different from the "terrorists" is it???

I always choose the right words it seems, how some people jump on it is remarkable. When you compare intentional suicide bombing with bombs being dropped you have serious issues, when you compare people strapping bombs on 12 year old children with bombs being dropped, you have even bigger issues.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

When you compare intentional suicide bombing with bombs being dropped you have serious issues,

yes, I do, Both are INTENTIONAL, and both are destructive. I do have an issue with intentional killing.......and giving it a different label , does not matter all that much.

I always choose the right words it seems, how some people jump on it is remarkable.

just keeping ya on your toes...;-)