Tensions rise in Mideast over Cartoons

[Freethinker]

Re: RE: Tensions rise in Mide

They won't back down, they will escalate this issue, I smell another Fatwa in the near future and a statement from Al Qaeda.

Against who? The world? Have we started modifying our behavior to mollify extremists in general, and Al Qaeda in particular? That would be a sad day.

I do think it is the proper approach is what the other Euro papers are doing, rather than crumbling to threats.

A significant portion of all satirical cartoons can be considered insulting by someone. The cartoons are not the proplem, the ensuing behavior is.

If we bend to extremists we encourage that approach IMO.

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: Tensions rise in Mide

Against who? The world?

No, just the west

Have we started modifying our behavior to mollify extremists in general, and Al Qaeda in particular? That would be a sad day.

No we haven't and shouldn't, all I did was make an estimated guess on their reaction.

I do think it is the proper approach is what the other Euro papers are doing, rather than crumbling to threats.

I agree.

A significant portion of all satirical cartoons can be considered insulting by someone. The cartoons are not the proplem, the ensuing behavior is.

If we bend to extremists we encourage that approach IMO.

Agree again.

 

[Toro]

Good for the European newspapers.

At this point, I'd like to interjet and say that

Virtual Burlesque

has the best avatar of us all.


Carry on.

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: Tensions rise in Mideast over Cartoons

Virtual Burlesque

has the best avatar of us all.


Carry on.

Nope, Mogz avatar roxors!

Carry on

 

[Toro]

Hey Virtual Burlesque

Put that avatar back!

Its art!

I can see that!

 

[Toro]

RE: Tensions rise in Mide

Well, damn, that's not the avatar!

 

[Hank C]

Its funny how these people are soo worried about something so small like a cartoon, yet they don't seem to mind terrorists beheading innocent journalists!

 

[FiveParadox]

Hank C, I don't see how concerns over this cartoon translate into anything in relation to "sympathy" for terrorist causes. Your assertion that the participants in this discussion condone terrorism and murder is, frankly, disgusting.

:arrow: Back to the Topic at Hand

While I would agree that cartoons are an issue of freedom of expression, I must draw to the attention of participants that such a right, in Canada anyway, is only guaranteed insofar "as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society." Now, would the knowing violation of an important regulation of a faith, with an arguably exclusive intent to offend, be "demonstrably justified" in terms of our Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms?

 

[Gerald24]

If I were a betting Man, I would have to say Muslims are probably the most hated group on earth right now and they have earned it.

 

[FiveParadox]

Gerald24, watch your tone. Muslims are people too, you know; I find that I am repeating myself in relation to this debate over and over again. Many often forget that, believe it or not, we have Muslims living in Canada, too.

They are no different from anyone else, except for the fact that their religion is called something else. A majority of Muslims, an overwhelming majority, in Canada and, I would assume the United States, do not practice Islam to such a radical degree as occurs throughout the Middle East — rather, many choose a more moderate and modern approach.

Many public Islamic associations in Canada have denounced terrorism, officially stating that they would not recognize any terrorist as a Muslim, due to the inherent contradiction between terrorism and the modern Islamic faith.

 

[Hank C]

Muslims need to be more vocal against the beheading of people who are there to help them. Sure a few do speak up but it is not enough.......they should be more worried about the barbaric actions of islamic terrorists rather than a cartoon.

I have nothing againts muslim people....but they are involved in terrorism and war the world over.....from India/Pakistan conflict......slaughter in many parts of Africa...the killing of innocents in Palestine...attacking their own people at job fairs in Iraq????.......attacks all over the world including America, UK, Spain....ect.....Not mention their leaders, treatment of women...its goes on and on.

its no doubt we are in a global battle with these barbarians!!!

 

[FiveParadox]

Are you saying then, Hank C, that Islamic Canadians are "barbarians?"

 

[Hank C]

nope not at all....ISLAMIC TERRORISTS

 

[Hank C]

I also have a little beef with the Tamil Tigers and their allegience to the Liberal Party.

 

[jimmoyer]

FiveParadox ???

You are way too politically correct in your courtesy, and you are arguing with people much too older to care for that.

At some point, even YOU, FiveParadox should understand
about the hypocrisy of the Muslims.

Because of your politically correct rectitude, you certainly understand the hypocrisy of Christians.

It's about high time you should hold the Muslim hypocrisy
to the same standards.

Get a feel for this.

We've all been through your phase of growth.

Think about it.

I've seen a number of your posts to consider you a very nice person
who likes to think things out, but you are very young, and you
really do make the mistake of a political correctness of the current zeitgeist of the world and you should hold the same test
of hypocrisy to all religions, and you know FiveParadox, you're really not doing that yet.


Think about it.

For example this crap about not worshipping icons is an offense
committed by the Muslims everyday. They're all masturbating in their underwear about disrespectful Danish cartoons, when they
didn't even give a damn that their Taliban brothers in Afghanistan
shot down the Oldest and Largest Buddhist statues in the world
in February of 2001, six months before 9/11 ???

Nor do they protest when their own muslim brothers destroy a
Mosque in Iraq ??

We Westernerners of a Christian heritage have been well taught
about our own hypocrisy and so we know hyprocrisy when we see it because IT TAKES ONE TO KNOW ONE.

It's HIGH TIME the Muslim Moderates own up to these issues
and take back the honor of their religion from the fanatic hijackers.

Nothing less is acceptable FiveParadox.

Don't talk yourself out of this.

We're not missing what you think we are missing.

This board, this forum, is a pretty wise group who reads as much
as you do, if not more, and there's a standard of parity, of the
same test of hypocrisy of all that will trump your kindness,
so get it on with this idea and progress to the next step in this
debate, okay ????

 

[Colpy]

While I would agree that cartoons are an issue of freedom of expression, I must draw to the attention of participants that such a right, in Canada anyway, is only guaranteed insofar "as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society." Now, would the knowing violation of an important regulation of a faith, with an arguably exclusive intent to offend, be "demonstrably justified" in terms of our Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms

?

I have to turn this around on you, Five.

Is the depiction of a crucifix floating in urine justified under the constitution?

I would say yes it is, and I am a Christian.

Most (although certainly not all) Muslims in the west are at least assimilated enough to understand that the freedom to offend is a basic of our rights, and that can not be denied. (as much as some might like to)

In Muslim nations, there is no freedom. Period. The Muslim MUST adhere to the tenets of Islam. There is no disident action.

I would point out that Christianity is a religion of CHOICE, that is why every modern democracy on earth sprang from a Christian nation. Real freedom can not exist side by side with fundamental Islam

Thus the Clash of Civilizations.

A battle we had best win, or the world will be plunged back into the Dark ages.

 

[jimmoyer]

Well said Colpy !!

FiveParadox is a good guy, but I feel he is under the spell
of a political correctness of the current world zeitgeist
that doesn't put the muslims through the same standards of hypocrisy, and so his point of view is not fair nor equal in its understanding.

I have 3 Morrocan friends here in Winchester Virginia
in the Chess club and we talk and learn from each other
all of the time, and believe me, it's been an education about the hypocrisy and FiveParadox should not presume
that all criticism of the Muslim religion in general comes
from an ignorant point of view.

 

[Hank C]

Yes, thing is currently there is a trend of anti-Americanism sweeping through the world right now.....and some of it I can truly understand. There is plenty to criticize in terms of the Iraq war and other conflicts. However my problems comes when people start assuming that anyone who stands up to America regardless of who they are or what they stand for, is righteous.

Look at the people jumping in the boat with Hugo Chavez (people like Cindy Sheehan or Reverend Blair) who willfully ignore his rewrite of the constitution to give him more power, or his law which allows the government to censor the news media, or even his law which allows for the arrest of anyone who defies or disrespects government officials, just to name a few.

What about the feminists who hate America with a passion, but have nothing to say about the muslim world and its treatment of women. No to them America is the worst kind of society and is no better. Yet they choose to ignore the way women are treated in some of these radical muslim countries. What would they have to say if Bush followed Saddam Husseins lead and ordered the gang rape of mothers and sisters for a husbands crime? What about prisons for children?

I also can't take all this America is going to fall and China is going to take their place crap! Are people actually hoping for this? Do they know about the censorship? The use of the military against the Chinese people? The treatment of female children who are unwanted?

One of the reasons I want to US to succeed is to prove these people wrong, people who are hypocrites, people who cheer sympathize with terrorists, people who love to live in the shadow of US protection (they dont want to defend our own country) yet bash the US every chance they get. Yea I am sure China, Russia, North Korea, Iran, and the new Hamas government are our friends.

Oh yea and lastly the anti Israel sentiment spread throughout Canadian universities frankly makes me sick!!

sryI just needed to rant after a long day at work :x

 

[Graciously Yours]

RE: Tensions rise in Mide

Anyone who stands up to a bully is by neccessity "Right", rightous is another story, but right is probably a sure thing. If America would stop going into other countries officially and unoffically and messing with their governments and such then there wouldn't be anyone to stand up to them, because they wouldn't be near anyone to stand up.

Anti Israel, has been going on since time for reasons unknown to most people. But from some people's perspective justified.

If we could ever get back to rational debate again, we might be able to sort it out, but when all sides seem content to stay at the lowest comman denomenator, it quickly turns into disarray.

 

[I think not]

Men Angry at Drawings Surround Gaza Office

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - Armed militants angered by a cartoon drawing of the Prophet Muhammad published in European media surrounded EU offices in Gaza Thursday and threatened to kidnap foreigners as outrage over the caricatures spread across the Islamic world.

About a dozen gunmen with ties to the Fatah Party approached the office of the EU Commission. Three jumped on the outer wall and the rest took up positions at the entrance.

In a statement read by one of the gunmen, the group demanded apologies from the governments of Norway, Denmark, France and Germany and called on Palestinians to boycott the products of these countries.

Palestinian gunmen in the West Bank city of Nablus said they were searching apartments for foreigners from several European countries to try to kidnap them to protest the drawings. The claim by the gunmen could not immediately be verified independently.

In a phone call to The Associated Press, a member of the Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, a violent offshoot of Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah Party, said members of his group are also asking hotel owners in the city not to host citizens of five European countries, including France and Denmark.

In Paris, the daily newspaper France Soir fired its managing editor after it republished the caricatures Wednesday, and Pakistani protesters chanting "Death to France!"

The furor over the drawings, which first ran in a Danish paper in September, cuts to the question of which is more sacred in the Western world — freedom of expression or respect for religious beliefs. The cartoons include an image of Muhammad wearing a turban shaped as a bomb with a burning fuse.

Islamic tradition bars any depiction of the prophet to prevent idolatry. The drawings have divided opinion within Europe and the Middle East, where they have prompted boycotts of Danish goods, bomb threats and demonstrations against Danish facilities.

France Soir and several other European papers reprinted the pictures in a show of solidarity with the Danish daily.

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