Tensions rise in Mideast over Cartoons

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
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Cartoons are yet another excuse for an uprising by Islamic Terrorists.....not to be confused with law abiding people of Muslim faith who live and work and practice their religious beliefs within democracies all over the world - even where they are in the minority.

The teaching of the Qu'ran has become skewed to suit the radicals and while much of the ancient doctrines are pretty difficult for westerners to comprehend (they make the Christian Leviticus seem like Mr. Rogers), much of the teachings are practiced in moderation as people evolve in societies offering more pacifist
objectives for religious belief.

As to their treatment of women - I will not go there. It is not and will never be part of any religious doctrine I could condone. Unfortunately it also belongs to the pacifist Muslims as well as the Islamic Terrorists.

This is just another cause celebre which will keep fomenting into yet another attack or suicide bombing and will continue until these groups are lesser rather than larger. They have been growing in number. For instance here is a link outlining their growth since the 1970s when their radicalism took on a worldwide goal of domination through violence.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/target/etc/modern.html
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
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Paradox

I admire your restraint and enjoy your prose and kind thinking, but I cannot agree on the topic of Islamic Terrorist acts being perpetuated upon countries who have welcomed and accepted these people to become part of their lands.

This is not a minuet we are talking here. This is death until they have their way.

Graciously

Regardless of your personal feelings, it also is not a fight between Americans and Islamic Terrorists. It is a fight between Islamic Terrorists and all democratic nations. Perhaps you missed the news that Spain, France, England and Australia had their share of uprisings just this past year. But do give a few minutes going back to the 70s.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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One of the reasons I want to US to succeed is to prove these people wrong, people who are hypocrites, people who cheer sympathize with terrorists, people who love to live in the shadow of US protection (they dont want to defend our own country) yet bash the US every chance they get. Yea I am sure China, Russia, North Korea, Iran, and the new Hamas government are our friends.



Power is terror. :lol:
 

Jo Canadian

Council Member
Mar 15, 2005
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PEI...for now
A Canadian's perspective on the situation at hand...


 

pastafarian

Electoral Member
Oct 25, 2005
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in the belly of the mouse
Put me down as someone who thinks humour should be exempt from ANY censorship by ANYONE. The psychotic Islamic groups deserve no free passes. Everyone who says that God approves their abuse of others should be called on it and called hard.

 

thulin

Electoral Member
Jan 30, 2006
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Jo Canadian said:
A Canadian's perspective on the situation at hand...
:lol: :lol: Reality often exceed fiction, as far as humor goes :lol: :lol:
 

Durgan

Durgan
Oct 19, 2005
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Definition of religion.
I will make a Christian of all people if I have to kill everyone of you. I will make a true believer (Moslem) of all of you if I have to kill every one of you. I will make a believer out of all, even if I have to kill all sums it up.

I , like most of the world, just want to live a reasonable life without religion. It took years to tame Christianity, yet they keep rising under another guise and have to be slapped down again. Moslems are no different.

Personally I want no part of any religion. I prefer my innukshuk in the backyard to all Gods or gods, whatever. Be off, and practice your rituals privately, and leave others alone. You have done enough harm.

Durgan.
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
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Cartoon Rage vs. Freedom of Speech
By Robert Spencer FrontPageMagazine.com | February 2, 2006
Muslim rage over cartoons of the Islamic Prophet Muhammad published in early October in a Danish newspaper continues to grow worldwide.

These cartoons are much less offensive than what is routinely printed in every American newspaper about presidents, presidential candidates, and other pols. Yet strange as it may seem to Western non-Muslims, the rage over them seems to grow with each passing day — until the global scale of the response to it has now involved ambassadors from many countries, the United Nations, international boycotts, and the threatening of utterly innocent businesspeople and embassy personnel. A few recent examples:

• Gaza: On Monday, gunmen seized an EU office, demanding apologies from Denmark and Norway (where another publication later reprinted the cartoons). On Tuesday, demonstrators chanted “War on Denmark, death to Denmark” as they burned Danish flags. Said Islamic Jihad leader Nafez Azzam: “We feel great rage at the continued attacks on Islam and the Prophet of Islam and we demand that the Danish government make a clear and public apology for the wrongful crime.”

• Arab interior ministers, meeting in Tunis, declared: “We ask the Danish authorities to take the necessary measures to punish those responsible for this harm and to take action to avoid a repeat.”

• Libya and Saudi Arabia recalled their ambassadors from Copenhagen, while in Saudi Arabia, an angry mob beat two employees of the Danish corporation Arla Foods, which has been subjected to a crippling boycott throughout the Islamic world – a boycott that has been endorsed by, among others, the Sudanese Defense Minister.

• Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshiyar Zebari complained to the Danish ambassador to Baghdad, while Danish troops were put on alert there after a fatwa concerning the cartoons was issued.

These incidents follow diplomatic protests from the Organization of the Islamic Conference, protests in Kashmir, death threats emanating from Pakistan, protests to the United Nations from the Muslim World League and other organizations, and more.

Even Bill Clinton has gotten into the act, decrying “these totally outrageous cartoons against Islam” and huffing self-righteously: “So now what are we going to do? ... Replace the anti-Semitic prejudice with anti-Islamic prejudice?” Of course not, but his question is beside the point. The cartoons are not a manifestation of anti-Islamic prejudice: criticism of Muhammad or even of Islam is not equivalent to anti-Semitism. Islam is not a race; the problems with it are not the product of fear mongering and fiction, but of ideology and facts -- facts that have been stressed repeatedly by Muslims around the world, when they commit violence in the name of Islam and justify that violence by its teachings. Noting, as some of the cartoons do, that there is a connection between the teachings of Muhammad and Islamic violence, is simply to manifest an awareness of what has been repeatedly asserted by Osama bin Laden, Ayman Al-Zawahiri, Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi, Omar Bakri, Abu Hamza, Abu Bakar Bashir, and so many others. Do all these men and so many, many others misunderstand and misrepresent the teachings of Muhammad and Islam? This question, as crucial as it is, is irrelevant to an ethical evaluation of the cartoons. The fact is, these and other jihad terrorists claim Muhammad’s example and words as their inspiration. Some of the cartoons call attention to that fact.

Ultimately, then, the cartoon controversy is a question of freedom of speech. As I wrote in mid-December: “As it grows into an international cause célèbre, the cartoon controversy indicates the gulf between the Islamic world and the post-Christian West in matters of freedom of speech and expression. And it may yet turn out that as the West continues to pay homage to its idols of tolerance, multiculturalism, and pluralism, it will give up those hard-won freedoms voluntarily.” Freedom of speech encompasses precisely the freedom to annoy, to ridicule, to offend. If it doesn’t, it is hollow. The instant that any person or ideology is considered off-limits for critical examination and even ridicule, freedom of speech has been replaced by an ideological straitjacket. Westerners seem to grasp this easily when it comes to affronts to Christianity, even when they are as sharp-edged and offensive as Andres Serrano’s Piss Christ or Chris Ofili’s dung- and pornography-encrusted Holy Virgin Mary. But the same clarity of thought doesn’t seem to carry over to an Islamic context.

Yet that is where it is needed most today. The cartoon controversy, insignificant and even silly as it may be in its origins, is an increasingly serious challenge to Western notions of pluralism and freedom of speech. The Danes have already begun to apologize, to the tentative satisfaction of Danish Muslim groups. But so far both the newspaper Jyllands-Posten and the Prime Minister have limited themselves to saying essentially that they are sorry if Muslims took offense, and that none was intended. If they go farther and “punish those responsible,” as the Arab Interior Ministers demanded, or treat the cartoons as a human rights violation, as a Belgian imam demanded, they will be acknowledging that lampooning Muhammad and criticizing Islam is somehow wrong in itself. Such a notion is just as dangerous for a free society as the idea that the Beloved Leader or dialectical materialism is above criticism. It is death for a free society.

Not only that. Muslim cartoon rage, having spread now all across the Muslim world, from Egypt and Sudan to Pakistan and beyond, also threatens to become the tinderbox that sets off a much larger conflagration between the West and the Islamic world than the present conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan. The Muslim world was enraged over the Abu Ghraib prison scandal, and over reports last May that a Qu'ran had been flushed down at toilet at Guantanamo Bay. But although there have been no killings in connection with the cartoons yet, as opposed to the Qu'ran desecration scandal, the international scope of the cartoon rage makes those other sources of anger trivial compared to it.

About the Qu'ran desecration riots in Afghanistan in which people were reportedly killed — people who had nothing whatsoever to do with the alleged desecration — I wrote: “The question here is one of proportionate response. If a Qu'ran had indeed been flushed, Muslims would have justifiably been offended. They may justifiably have considered the perpetrators boors, or barbarians, or hell-bound unbelievers. They may justifiably have issued denunciations accordingly. But that is all. To kill people thousands of miles away who had nothing to do with the act, and to fulminate with threats and murder against the entire Western world, all because of this alleged act, is not just disproportionate. It is not just excessive. It is mad. And every decent person in the world ought to have the courage to stand up and say that it is mad.”

No one has been killed for these cartoons. But otherwise the same words apply today to the cartoon controversy. It is mad. It should be denounced as mad. The fact that Bill Clinton is the only American politician who has taken notice of this ongoing controversy, and that on the wrong side, is a travesty.

The free world should be standing resolutely with Denmark, ready to defend freedom of speech. Insofar as it is not defended, it will surely be lost. On Wednesday publications all over Europe — in France, Spain, Germany, Italy, and Holland — published the cartoons to demonstrate their support for this principle. But in a grim reminder of the dhimmitude and multiculturalist fog that still grips us, the editor of France Soir was fired for doing so. The defense of free speech and free thought will not be easy, and is not the matter of just a day.
 

nitzomoe

Electoral Member
Dec 31, 2004
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Re: RE: Tensions rise in Mideast over Cartoons

Colpy said:
In Muslim nations, there is no freedom. Period. The Muslim MUST adhere to the tenets of Islam. There is no disident action.

your statement about real democracy not existing in muslim countries is blatantly false as there are many muslim democratic countries including: Lebanon, Singapore, Malaysia, Maldive Islands etc. In reality had the US not interfered with Iran, Algeria, Morocco and Yemen we would also have democracies there.

Before you go and say Singapore, lebanon are not true muslim countries understand that there is only one technically theocratic muslim nation in this world and that is Iran,(even this is in dispute) Saudi Arabia's constitution is based on the religion but it is not a Muslim nation as it does not fit theological precepts for governing which are actually quite democratic (they are dated because no nations have used them in awhile)

Colpy said:
I would point out that Christianity is a religion of CHOICE, that is why every modern democracy on earth sprang from a Christian nation. Real freedom can not exist side by side with fundamental Islam

Thus the Clash of Civilizations.

A battle we had best win, or the world will be plunged back into the Dark ages.

that is perhaps your appraisal of the situation as illogical and blatantly false as it is but it is your right to say it.

India isnt a christian country, its christian population is under 5% yet it is a strong democracy, Iran under Mossadegh was a true democracy and its christian population is less than .1%, Indonesia's christian population is under 10% yet it is considered a democracy, the list goes on and on, please dont say if you dont noe. most of the democratic countries you hold dear to are the biggest usupers of freedom, if anything the democracy that exists in canada is more to do with secular existential thought than christianity. Yes Magna Carta is not a religious edict.

Christianity theologically may be a religion of choice, but it has rarely if ever been exersiced as one until SECULAR government came into existence. If you look at the actual emergence of democracy you would see that it is anithetically opposed to the church be it Lutheran, Roman Catholic (especially) or Prostestant. Only after sufficient secular change is enforced these churches did unimaginable things to keep ppl in line.

therefore your statement that because chrisitianity is a religion of choice as opposed to islam as a religion of force is untrue. Both religions ultimately are religions of choice. the difference is that during this day and age most western countries have gone towards secularism which promotes democracy instead of theology which is against it. " Muslim" nations (i use this word loosely as none exist) are dictatorships and thus not fitting of the relgions codes.

Real freedom has, had and will continue to exist within the islam as long as the US and Other neocolonialistic nations stop interfering with muslim countries.

Coming back to the topic I stand by freedom fo speech on this issue though this action does remind me of a quote by a famous existentialist:

People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use. Soren Kierkegaard (1813 - 1855)
 

nitzomoe

Electoral Member
Dec 31, 2004
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in terms of islam as a religion where you have to adhere to strict interpretations of the holy book that is also simply not true.

There are examples of instances where new laws being put in during real muslim governments during the early ages of islam specifically under teh democratic government of Omar Bin Khattab, he was voted in by the ppl of the city.

If a religion is stagnant and does not attempt to adapt to everchanging circumstance then it is doomed to failure. There are many islamic theologins nowadays almost all of whom are progressive. The problem is they dont get any attention as its always better to show the guys with large robes and big beard screaming death to america all the time.

the first example of democracy that most ppl think of is greece, yet greeces version of democracy was one where rich, landowning males were citizens and everyone else were slaves. These landowning males were lazy bums who didnt do any real work but this idea has been constantly adapted until today, in fact it continues to adapt as seen with same-sex legislation.


If you look at the past you will see that stagnation was not a quality of muslim countries quite the opposite, they were more progressive than western nations.

If you actually read parts of the old testemant such as Leviticus and Duetoronomy you wouldnt be able to see the connection between that and the current Juedaio-christian culture we live in. Christianity has also evolved and changed.

all religions do.
 

Freethinker

Electoral Member
Jan 18, 2006
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Re: RE: Tensions rise in Mideast over Cartoons

Certainly Christianity is not necessary for democracy. Hindus (India) and Bhuddist (Singapore) do pretty well too.

But Muslims seem to a have a real struggle with democracy. There are pseudo democracies of short history that usually require the army to take control when things get out of hand.

What is the best example of a functioning Muslim democracy?
 

Sassylassie

House Member
Jan 31, 2006
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Lets see, they are offended by cartoons. Sorry but a religion that encourages it's followers to strap bombs to their chest thus killing innocents is a religion that I hold in contempt. A Muslim TV station Aljeria Baba (Can't spell the name) airing the be-heading of innocent people trying to help their countries re-build and the entire Muslim world celebrates these be-headings, and they are offended-choke. The Muslims belief that Women are second class and do not need to be educated, they can't drive, they must wear a bed sheet with holes and aren't allowed to work, I wonder what the males in the Muslim faith are afraid off? Muslims using the media to put a hit on a Author now that is impressive. Forcing the Muslim doctorine on the free world is what this religion is all about and if those in power don't like what they hear they resort to barbaric violence. Resistance is futile, not in a free world it isn't.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
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I say yet again.

Not all Muslims are like that.

There is a significant population of Christians on this planet who would love nothing better than to eradicate the "others," just as there would be with any other religion — I don't care which religion we're talking about.

There are sick people in every religion who would resort to terrorism if given the chance — we must not forget that terrorism is not an intrinsic part of any religion — Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Baha'I, or otherwise.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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It's no longer necessary to insist NOT ALL MUSLIMS ARE
LIKE THAT.

We're taking a NECESSARY close look here at the culture that dominates muslims in the Middle East.

Take a good look at it.

We all got problems.

And they need to take a good look at who they are
as well.

The Elephant Man defense is tiresome and evasive.
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
7,326
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FiveParadox...of course not all Muslims are like that....

But the topic here is Islamic Fundamentalism and Muslim Extremists rebelling against cartoons - to the highest places in government. With threats.

It isn't about Christians or Jews or Gnostics or Hindi or Buddhists .... it is about Islamists.

Christians made as large a fuss over the Virgin Mary and fecal matter in the New York MOMA..... but they didn't threaten the government ... only made a large noise in the press.

Are we now to pick and choose what "offends" certain groups in our press? The alternative of censorship is far more frightening than raising the ire of some Mullah to incite riots and threaten government entities..

Censorship is the most offensive of alternatives to calm public outrage.