Swine Flu Update, 1100 Dead So Far

[Cannuck]

Big Pharm has no intention in testing the effectiveness in herbs because there is no profit in it for them...

Rubbish. There is profit in anything that can be bought and sold. There is profit to be had in carrots, Rubiks cubes, oregano and hula hoops. If there is no profit in your weed it's because nobody has proven it does a damn thing.

... and if they proved the effectiveness, they would go out of business.

Nope. They could just switch to selling the herb. That's how business works. Somebody always builds a better mousetrap. It's simply laughable to suggest companies don't build one because theirs would then be obsolete. You really should be embarrassed for suggesting something so ludicrous.

 

[Cliffy]

Rubbish. There is profit in anything that can be bought and sold. There is profit to be had in carrots, Rubiks cubes, oregano and hula hoops. If there is no profit in your weed it's because nobody has proven it does a damn thing.



Nope. They could just switch to selling the herb. That's how business works. Somebody always builds a better mousetrap. It's simply laughable to suggest companies don't build one because theirs would then be obsolete. You really should be embarrassed for suggesting something so ludicrous.

I'm not embarrassed and you are just being negative for the sake of being negative... as usual. If Big Pharma was into selling useful medicine they would be selling herbs already. They are no different than tobacco companies. Thousands die every year from their poisons but they make billions selling over priced drugs to gullible people who buy into the Big Pharma propaganda. But it is pretty hard to show someone an obvious scam when they buy into it hook, line and sinker.

 

[Cannuck]

I'm not embarrassed and you are just being negative for the sake of being negative... as usual. If Big Pharma was into selling useful medicine they would be selling herbs already.

If Hasbro was interested in selling food, they would be in the beef business already. You are just being silly for the sake of being silly. As I have said, your claims about the benefits of herbal remedies has not been proven. Perhaps if you spent 1% of the time that you spend slagging "big pharma" and put it towards proving the effectiveness of your herbs, you might just be a little less laughable.

They are no different than tobacco companies. Thousands die every year from their poisons but they make billions selling over priced drugs to gullible people who buy into the Big Pharma propaganda. But it is pretty hard to show someone an obvious scam when they buy into it hook, line and sinker.

The exact same thing could be said about the herbal industry. The biggest difference is that "big pharma" has to test their products and get approval to sell them. Herbal companies claim their products are naturally safe, provide little if any testing and make a tidy profit while leaving the onus of ensuring the product is safe to somebody else.

Possible link between black cohosh and liver damage

The herbal industry has absolutely nothing to say to the pharmaceutical industry when it comes to integrity.

 

[darkbeaver]

Because it hasn't been proven effective for starters.

Cannuck the continuation and progression in good health of the species itself would seem to constitute rather heavily by way of convincing practicle evidence of efficacious use over ten thousand years as is the case with cannabis and many other herbal remedies. Big pharma can only dream of approaching natural remedial efficiencies.

So in the main we find your simplistic conclusions woefully inadequate in every respect. We therefore find you quilty as suspected and sentence you to be flogged with a bananna and tickled with a ducks tail feather untill you foam at the mouth and tip over. Baliff drag the quilty bassterd away. We will recess for lunch now and reconvene tomorrow at 11 AM. thankyou.

 

[Cannuck]

Cannuck the continuation and progression in good health of the species itself would seem to constitute rather heavily by way of convincing practicle evidence of efficacious use over ten thousand years as is the case with cannabis and many other herbal remedies.

Nice try. At least you made the effort which is more than I can say for Cliffy. You've still failed miserably btw (you may have had a point if people were historically and regularly living past 80 years of age). Now, lets try a little proof shall we. I know that science, evidence and proof are not a particularly strong suit of yours.

 

[darkbeaver]

Nice try. At least you made the effort which is more than I can say for Cliffy. You've still failed miserably btw (you may have had a point if people were historically and regularly living past 80 years of age). Now, lets try a little proof shall we. I know that science, evidence and proof are not a particularly strong suit of yours.

Poor Cannuck, history and logic and certainly capitalism escape you entirely in this matter. Where do you think drugs come from? You think things have never been better eh. The average age in any historical population certainly depends on many factors nutrition, climate, location state of conflict, there is every historical indication that the average age was in many locations much higher than it is today. No extension of average lifespan is indicated whatsoever in the industrial world, in fact there is every indication that we are being offed in greater numbers and at younger ages by our beloved modern living itself.

 

[Walter]

No extension of average lifespan is indicated whatsoever in the industrial world, in fact there is every indication that we are being offed in greater numbers and at younger ages by our beloved modern living itself.

Got a link?

 

[Cliffy]

Well, not being a scientist and not having access to scientific studies (which I find suspect to begin with) I can only point to my own personal experiences over the past 45 years or so.
I first encountered herbal remedies while living in Spain. I was renting a room from an elderly woman when I became very ill. I was not familiar with the symptoms but felt like I was on death's door. The woman brought me a fowl tasting concoction of herbs brewed in a tea pot and forced me to drink it (I was too weak to resist). Within an hour I was completely better and up out of bed. That is when I started studying herbs and learning how to gather my own from the wild. While I lived in the forest (10 years) I was never sick for more than eight hours and helped many people get better using my herbal mixes.
An old man came to me with emphysema. He had been breathing through bubbles for over 15 years and been to many specialists in both Canada and the US to no avail. I gave him some mullein to do in a steam bath and when done to strain it and drink what was left. He returned in three days and said that he was able to breath for the first time in 15 years without bubbling in his lungs. He was so impressed that he drove down the highway all that day and gathered mullein where ever he found it and brought a trunk load of it for me to dry and distribute among everybody I knew. Five years later he was still breathing freely.
Gotta go now but if you want more stories, they will have to wait until this evening.

 

[VanIsle]

Check your local health food store. They may have some or a product made from them. They are very good for kids. Blackberries won't do (as far as I know).

Damn! They are so cheap here as long as you pick your own. How much liquor do I add to how many berries (weight) (or supplement) I was telling some of my co-workers about your remedy yesterday. They agree that Elderberries are very good.

 

[VanIsle]

Poor Cannuck, history and logic and certainly capitalism escape you entirely in this matter. Where do you think drugs come from? You think things have never been better eh. The average age in any historical population certainly depends on many factors nutrition, climate, location state of conflict, there is every historical indication that the average age was in many locations much higher than it is today. No extension of average lifespan is indicated whatsoever in the industrial world, in fact there is every indication that we are being offed in greater numbers and at younger ages by our beloved modern living itself.

Oddly enough, I think there is proof of that just in the number of tragic deaths we hear about regarding students who are playing hockey, basketball, etc. and their heart gives out in the middle of a game. Did you ever hear of such a thing when we were growing up? I grew up with one very frail girl that we all knew had a bad heart. I've always wondered what happened to her. I hope she got well but heart transplants were not even thought of then.

 

[VanIsle]

I'm not embarrassed and you are just being negative for the sake of being negative... as usual. If Big Pharma was into selling useful medicine they would be selling herbs already. They are no different than tobacco companies. Thousands die every year from their poisons but they make billions selling over priced drugs to gullible people who buy into the Big Pharma propaganda. But it is pretty hard to show someone an obvious scam when they buy into it hook, line and sinker.

Hey Cliff
Re the last sentence you have here. I assume you are speaking mostly of doctors who prescribe a dozen to about 30 pills a day to a person. My own sister takes about 12 different meds per day (more than once a day) and my best friend takes something akin to 30 or more. No wonder they both have COPD.

 

[darkbeaver]

Got a link?

For you Walter sure. Check out Georgia And Nepal and The mountinous regions of Northern Japan. There are many pockets of oldies. While I'm searching you might check out the bible. It is a well known fact that nutrition and hygene coupled with a stress free nurturing environment extends human life by decades, and for many thousands of years these services have been available and employed, large scale. There is no substitute for the big real pharma, none at all.

 

[darkbeaver]

Biodemography of Human Longevity
The Late-life mortality deceleration law states that death rates stop to increase exponentially at advanced ages and level-off to the late-life mortality plateau. An immediate consequence from this observation is that there is no fixed upper limit to human longevity - there is no special fixed number, which separates possible and impossible values of lifespan. This conclusion is important, because it challenge the common belief in existence of a fixed maximal human life span.
Biodemographic studies found that even genetically identical laboratory animals kept in constant environment have very different lengths of life, suggesting a crucial role of chance and early-life developmental noise in longevity determination. This leads to new approaches in understanding causes of exceptional human longevity.
As for the future of human longevity, it is important to understand that longevity revolution had two very distinct stages – the initial stage of mortality decline at younger ages is now replaced by a new trend of preferential improvement of the oldest-old survival. This phenomenon invalidates methods of longevity forecasting based on extrapolation of long-term historical trends.
Finally, a general explanation of aging and longevity is suggested based on system reliability theory.

 

[karrie]

Hey Cliff
Re the last sentence you have here. I assume you are speaking mostly of doctors who prescribe a dozen to about 30 pills a day to a person. My own sister takes about 12 different meds per day (more than once a day) and my best friend takes something akin to 30 or more. No wonder they both have COPD.

You're blaming the fact that they have COPD on them being treated for COPD?

I may be quite an herbalist, and shy away from medications like you would not believe, but, COPD is deadly and needs treatment. Any worsening of symptoms is a permanent worsening... there's no getting better from it. You can't mess around with it. It's one of the leading causes of death. What I wouldn't give to get my stubborn family members who've smoked themselves into COPD, onto the meds necessary to keep them alive a while longer.

 

[VanIsle]

You're blaming the fact that they have COPD on them being treated for COPD?

I may be quite an herbalist, and shy away from medications like you would not believe, but, COPD is deadly and needs treatment. Any worsening of symptoms is a permanent worsening... there's no getting better from it. You can't mess around with it. It's one of the leading causes of death. What I wouldn't give to get my stubborn family members who've smoked themselves into COPD, onto the meds necessary to keep them alive a while longer.

No - I'm not blaming the fact that they have COPD on them being treated for it. I'm just stating that they both take so many meds that I have to wonder what effect it really has over all. Maybe it even makes the COPD worse. Both of them were heavy smokers until about the last 6 or 7 years. I did see a thing on TV one time that said if people with the condition exercise regularly and watch their weight, they can control the symptoms without meds. I don't know about your family but my sister and my best friend are both quite over-weight and for my sister at least - exercising is not an easy option. My friend is my age and better able to at least try and she is trying and she is also trying to lose some weight. I've already lost one sister to congestive heart failure and my Mom too so I certainly don't want to lose my other sister. I feel major concern about all the meds she is on because even though she is being treated, her heart rate is above 135 and for some reason they cannot get it down. It's been that way for months. Scary.

 

[Cannuck]

Well, not being a scientist and not having access to scientific studies (which I find suspect to begin with)

....well of course you do.

I can only point to my own personal experiences over the past 45 years or so.

Surprise, surprise. That's what all the herbal pushers say.

Wonderful tale Cliffy. I'm sure with a little elbow grease you could prove how your potion works and sell lots of it. Maybe you could sell just enough to those that can afford it and give it away to those that can't. In fact, I have access to considerable venture capital. All I need is proof of whether this stuff works. Think of how wonderful life will be.

 

[Walter]

Biodemography of Human Longevity
The Late-life mortality deceleration law states that death rates stop to increase exponentially at advanced ages and level-off to the late-life mortality plateau. An immediate consequence from this observation is that there is no fixed upper limit to human longevity - there is no special fixed number, which separates possible and impossible values of lifespan. This conclusion is important, because it challenge the common belief in existence of a fixed maximal human life span.
Biodemographic studies found that even genetically identical laboratory animals kept in constant environment have very different lengths of life, suggesting a crucial role of chance and early-life developmental noise in longevity determination. This leads to new approaches in understanding causes of exceptional human longevity.
As for the future of human longevity, it is important to understand that longevity revolution had two very distinct stages – the initial stage of mortality decline at younger ages is now replaced by a new trend of preferential improvement of the oldest-old survival. This phenomenon invalidates methods of longevity forecasting based on extrapolation of long-term historical trends.
Finally, a general explanation of aging and longevity is suggested based on system reliability theory.

Thanks.

 

[Cliffy]

Damn! They are so cheap here as long as you pick your own. How much liquor do I add to how many berries (weight) (or supplement) I was telling some of my co-workers about your remedy yesterday. They agree that Elderberries are very good.

Enough to cover the berries

 

[Cliffy]

....well of course you do.



Surprise, surprise. That's what all the herbal pushers say.

Wonderful tale Cliffy. I'm sure with a little elbow grease you could prove how your potion works and sell lots of it. Maybe you could sell just enough to those that can afford it and give it away to those that can't. In fact, I have access to considerable venture capital. All I need is proof of whether this stuff works. Think of how wonderful life will be.

I'm not interested in making money on it. It grows wild over most of Canada. You can pick your own, dry it and try it for yourself next time you get a cold. I have never charged anybody who I helped get well because in the end the only one who can make someone better is themselves.

 

[Cannuck]

You can pick your own, dry it and try it for yourself next time you get a cold.

I don't get colds.

... in the end the only one who can make someone better is themselves.

...and big pharma of course. They have a remarkable track record (and a proven one at that).