supporting our troops??

[FiveParadox]

Mogz, that is the crux of the problem, in my opinion — many Canadians have no idea why the Canadian Armed Forces are in Afghanistan; which is precisely why there should be a take-note debate or, if warranted, an emergency debate, in the House of Commons, so that the Government of Canada can explain the mission, its successes and failures so far, and so that Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition can voice its concerns thus far.

 

[the caracal kid]

actually mogz, i was refering to INDIVIDUAL "morality" not system morality.

The person who wielded the axe felt morally justified in their action, just as the officer felt morally justified in being in afganistan. It was not a reference to religion at all.

If you feel justified in your decisions to go to another region with rifle in hand, then the morale for your decision should come from within you and not strangers that happen to reside within a particular geopolitical boundary. If it can not, then you should be asking yourself why are you really there. Why would I condone something I disagree with just to make you feel good?

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: supporting our troops??

Mogz, that is the crux of the problem, in my opinion — many Canadians have no idea why the Canadian Armed Forces are in Afghanistan; which is precisely why there should be a take-note debate or, if warranted, an emergency debate, in the House of Commons, so that the Government of Canada can explain the mission, its successes and failures so far, and so that Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition can voice its concerns thus far.

Many Canadians don't have a clue about a lot of things....I suggest they make a list and present that to the government. I reason that it will be about 15 years from now they will get that list to the government, as it will be long.....

We are in Afghanistan supporting our allies (the USA) that were attacked by Afghanistan. Further more (for the malcontents and bed wetters) if the same thing happened to us here in Canada, that happened to America on 9/11, the USA would be supporting us...and when I say SUPPORTING I don't mean giving us a lift to the war zone because we aren't mature enough to do it ourselves...I mean with troops and equipment and leadership etc, etc.


There is no need to debate what is happening, we know what is happening, and if the loony opposition members want to play politics with the moral and support of our troops, they should be sent out to the front spray painted with their parties colour.

 

[darkbeaver]

Re: RE: supporting our troops??

The Afgani cleaving the officer's head is just as moral as the officer being there, by their own morals.

Stop spouting rhetoric, jay!

Actually it isn't moral by Afghani law. As usual you make claims about something you don't understand. Under a shura all hostile acts are suppose to cease, it is the same as a white flag in Western society. The people who attacked our troops during the shura are the epitome of whats wrong with Islam.

With regard to the mission in 'ghan. I've done my time there and while I don't feel that every Canadian has to agree with the mission, I do feel that if you're to offer an opinion you should at least understand WHY were there. Furthermore if you don't support the mission, at least support the troops by standing behind them. If you blather on about recalling them, and how you don't support that mission, that has a huge impact on morale, something a soldier relies on while in a shithole for months on end. If I were in Afghanistan on this roto now i'd be extremely pissed that my fellow Countrymen aren't behind me, even though I wear the uniform of the nation and am putting myself in harms way for the betterment of the World. Feel free to disagree with the War, but there are less crass ways of doing so, ones that don't undermine both our national image and the welfare of the troops on the ground.

So Mogz old stick, tell us why you were there, and try and leave out the feel good shit , just give us the facts.

 

[FiveParadox]

Jay, I am not suggesting that we withdraw ou soldiers, or express a lack of confidence in them; rather, I am suggesting either a take-note or emergency debate — according to procedure in the Parliament of Canada, material motions cannot be made during any such debate.

 

[darkbeaver]

RE: supporting our troops

Jay, America was not attacked by Afghanistan.

 

[jimmoyer]

The State of Afghanistan run by the Taliban supporting
bases camps to matriculate 1000s of terrorists run by
al Qaeda is indeed a novel way for a nation-state to
attack another nation-state.

Now still, that might NOT qualify as an act of war, and so
you look at terrorism as simply a criminal
matter, something for the police and law enforcement
agencies to handle.

I think the matter of terrorism defies all categories,
and so it should involve every way we can fight it,
including police, bank account detectives, spies, and
soldiers, and a cultural war of mindthink.

No country should safely allow terrorist training bases.

The battle is broad on many fronts, and not some
narrow back alley police enforcement.

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: supporting our troops??

Jay, I am not suggesting that we withdraw ou soldiers, or express a lack of confidence in them; rather, I am suggesting either a take-note or emergency debate — according to procedure in the Parliament of Canada, material motions cannot be made during any such debate.

I appreciate where your coming from Paradox, and I do believe in your innocence on matters like this. It was all of 10 years ago I wouldn't have understood what I'm saying now.

I see this as partisan politics, and not something we need to rush into emergency debate over. To me it just shows how the opposition is going to work and what tools they would use to tie up the government.

 

[Colpy]

Yes, they were.

Attacked by proxy. The Taliban allowed bin Laden to set up training camps there. He operated openly, and with the government's approval. The Taliban knew he was operating against the west, and they did nothing.

To compact the matter, after the attack they refused to cooperate.

Yes, America was attacked by Afghanistan.

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: supporting our troops

Jay, America was not attacked by Afghanistan.

The Afghanistan government had simple instructions to follw after 9/11 to prevent war. Did they do it?

It's the same with Saddam....

 

[Mogz]

Mogz, that is the crux of the problem, in my opinion — many Canadians have no idea why the Canadian Armed Forces are in Afghanistan; which is precisely why there should be a take-note debate or, if warranted, an emergency debate, in the House of Commons, so that the Government of Canada can explain the mission, its successes and failures so far, and so that Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition can voice its concerns thus far.

There are a myriad of reasons why the average Canadian doesn't have a shmick about what's going on over there. First and foremost is the fact that hardly any Canadians actually take an interest in to what our nations troops do on a day to day basis. We've been there for 5 years and only now is the public interested. Why? Because danger is abundant in Kandahar and troops are coming home in body bags. No one ever voiced a concern about us being there before, even back in 2001-2002 when we were out taking the fight right to the militants. I am honestly confused why now, years later, people want a debate on an operation that has been going on for half a decade already.

then the morale for your decision should come from within you and not strangers that happen to reside within a particular geopolitical boundary.

You are so out of touch with reality. You once said you were a soldier, although myself and a few others know you lied about that, but that's neither here nor there. The fact is that you cannot decree a soldier must build his own morale and that nothing from home should influence that. Why will a soldier want to go to a foreign land, risk his or her life, wear the uniform of her nation, only to be disrespected back home. That is the highest form of unjustice there is; to neglect those who leave the safety of this nation to promote the safety of another.

So Mogz old stick, tell us why you were there, and try and leave out the feel good shit , just give us the facts

You want the facts? I'll give you the honest facts, in fact i've said them time and time again on these forums and people (you included) argue them like you have some higher knowledge. We are in Afghanistan because:

1. Our closest ally was attacked by residents of that nation
2. We realize the threat that exists if the Taliban and Al-qaeda are to remain influential in Afghanistan.
3. We are deployed partly at the request of the Afghan Government.
4. We feel Afghanistan has great potential and wish to ensure those who would oppress its people are never given the chance to do so.

Take it or leave it, that's why we're there with a whole host of other nations. The most important one is number two. If we just waltz out of Afghanistan tomorrow and forget that we were ever there, how many years until the Taliban and Al-qaeda resurge and rule the Country again? How long until the training camps near Khost open up again? How long until more violence reaches North America? The answer folks; too soon.

Jay, America was not attacked by Afghanistan

Actually it was. The Taliban Government approved, funded, and hide the training camps that trained the terrorists. So yes, they did attack the U.S.

To me it just shows how the opposition is going to work and what tools they would use to tie up the government.

Exactly Jay. My question to everyone on these forums that think a debate is a good thing? Why now are the Liberals calling for this debate, even though they were the Government who approved, planned, and executed Operation Archer, the Operation to Kandahar? This operation was in the works long before the Conservatives came to power, yet the Liberals act like its all an evil Conservative plot. If you believe the Liberals on this then I say poor weakminded you, you obviously don't realize that the very operation the Liberals are speaking out against was planned and approved by the Liberal Caucus. Sad.

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: supporting our troops??

I am honestly confused why now, years later, people want a debate on an operation that has been going on for half a decade already.

I'm not...I should have predicted this would happen the moment the Liberals were removed from office.


I'm confused why people follow them, but I doubt I will ever get an answer to that one! :lol:

 

[Jersay]

What does this really have to do with politics Jay. The Liberals were the ones who sent the troops in.

Concerning the interest of Canadian public to discuss this situation, if they want to discuss it fine, go right ahead but leave it up to the Generals and the government in charge to deal with the situation. Don't have any of these votes or things saying the troops have to come home because we are over there, and are staying over there until decided otherwise by the military or by the Afghan government.

And the fact is plain and simple why all this fuss is going on now is because Canadians are now dying overseas. If they had listened to General Hillier in the fall and not watch sports or changed the channel they would be more prepared now.

 

[aeon]

And by the way, you can supoprt your troops without supporting a governments policies. Troops follow orders and defend your right to freedom of speech, as idiotic as it may be.

Thinking that our troops are following orders and defend our right to freedom of speech, is completly ridicoulus, that is exactly what governement want you to think.they are there for coorporations interest period.

 

[Jay]

What does this really have to do with politics Jay. The Liberals were the ones who sent the troops in.

The very fact this is comming up NOW proves it is politics.

 

[Jersay]

Thinking that our troops are following orders and defend our right to freedom of speech, is completly ridicoulus, that is exactly what governement want you to think.they are there for coorporations interest period.

Considering that I am a soldier, and I hate corporations, don't even try to put me or any of my fellow soldiers in to the section that they are following corpoation orders. Because maybe at the political level it has something to do with corporation, maybe, but a any soldier would they do it for their own reasons.

I do it to help people. So I don't think that is a corporation kind of mentality.

Besides if we work for corporations,maybe next time a natural disaster occurs, we wouldn't come to help.

 

[Jay]

Thinking that our troops are following orders and defend our right to freedom of speech, is completly ridicoulus, that is exactly what governement want you to think.they are there for coorporations interest period.

Considering that I am a soldier, and I hate corporations, don't even try to put me or any of my fellow soldiers in to the section that they are following corpoation orders. Because maybe at the political level it has something to do with corporation, maybe, but a any soldier would they do it for their own reasons.

I do it to help people. So I don't think that is a corporation kind of mentality.

Besides if we work for corporations,maybe next time a natural disaster occurs, we wouldn't come to help.

8O


Did Jersay just say that or is this a dream?

 

[aeon]

Re: RE: supporting our troops??

Yes, they were.

Attacked by proxy. The Taliban allowed bin Laden to set up training camps there. He operated openly, and with the government's approval. The Taliban knew he was operating against the west, and they did nothing.

To compact the matter, after the attack they refused to cooperate.

Yes, America was attacked by Afghanistan.

Not only the taliban knew about it, saudi arabia knew about it, and what did they do?? did they warned us officials?? probably yes, and most of the europeen countries did the same, but what exactly us officials did about it?? besides warning important peoples,absotly nothing, it only came like a gift coming from the sky.

 

[Jersay]

Scary isn't it.

Maybe I am turning conservative.

:lol:

Not.

 

[Jay]

Don't worry Jersay....you will see the light someday.