Strategic Voting???

[Semperfi_dani]

I have a number of politically minded coworkers. And water cooler talk is all politics at the moment.

For the most part, i am the lone Liberal supporter in the sea of Conservative. But to my surprise, a lot of my pals are thinking of voting Liberal.....even though they don't like the Libs...

Why? Because they like Stephen Harper even less. So they think that if they vote Liberal, and the Liberals get another minority...than that means the end of Harper as leader. And if a more moderate CON like Peter McKay for example than becomes leader....they will wait a year or two for the minority gov't to fall again and than vote for PC to get them into a majority, banking on the fact that most people won't vote for PC if Harper is in power..but might if someone the East trusts (ie/ McKay or someone else) gets in....

Of course....i said "what if the Libs get the majority"...they are trying not to count on that! Hahaha. But they might put up with 5 more years if it means no Harper.


So anyways, what do you think of the above?

Has strategic voting come into your mind (in any way, shape or form for any situation)?

 

[the caracal kid]

indeed. i feel at this point it is the only option available. harper must be gotten rid of! I almost feel like saying if this country turns to harper, it is time to move out of canada before the fall. I think a bloc government would be less likely to destroy canada than the Con-men led by harper.

 

[Colpy]

I have a number of politically minded coworkers. And water cooler talk is all politics at the moment.

For the most part, i am the lone Liberal supporter in the sea of Conservative. But to my surprise, a lot of my pals are thinking of voting Liberal.....even though they don't like the Libs...

Why? Because they like Stephen Harper even less. So they think that if they vote Liberal, and the Liberals get another minority...than that means the end of Harper as leader. And if a more moderate CON like Peter McKay for example than becomes leader....they will wait a year or two for the minority gov't to fall again and than vote for PC to get them into a majority, banking on the fact that most people won't vote for PC if Harper is in power..but might if someone the East trusts (ie/ McKay or someone else) gets in....

Of course....i said "what if the Libs get the majority"...they are trying not to count on that! Hahaha. But they might put up with 5 more years if it means no Harper.


So anyways, what do you think of the above?

Has strategic voting come into your mind (in any way, shape or form for any situation)?

I've got to say, I don't think it matters who the Conservative leader of the moment is. The Liberals (to give the devils their due) are expert at demonizing whomever leads the opposition.

Witness Preston Manning. According to the Liberals, and often the CBC, a mad Social Credit type, a racist, scary as hell, take the country down the tubes with Fundamentalist claptrap, probably burn people as witches.

This for a decent, hard-working guy. A guy with more IQ than most of the Liberal cabinet combined. Oh well, too bad, nobody could vote for Preston. Too scary.

Scary, my arse.

Then Stockwell Day stepped up to the plate. Now, I kinda like Stock. But he was an EASY target. He is, after all, REALLY a fundamentalist Christian (God forbid we elect somebody with actual MORALs....the HORROR!) Some clumsy attempts at political theatre made him look the complete dork.........Kinsella throws about a Barney doll.......Maclean's piles on with a cover picture of Stock with the caption "HOW SCARY? Stock's done. Has anyone noticed how well he has done as Foreign Affairs critic?

Up comes Harper. Stock was (mistakenly) seen as all fluff, no substance. So we (including me) opt for a thinker, a policy wonk, a bright guy with some policy experience. OOOPS....the Liberals paint him as the mad scientist of Conservatism.....out to gather power to himself any way possible so to implement his "secret agenda".

I personally think the Conservatives could have Jesus Christ as their leader, with Ghandi and the Dalai Lama on their team, and the Libs would successfully paint them as "too scary".

Canadians have completely lost their nerve.

They have become cowards.

They will put up with corruption, theft, lies, deceit, and being bought off with their own cash, not because they like the Liberals, but because they are too afraid of change of any type to turf them out.

I do hope the electorate proves me wrong.

 

[Colpy]

Re: RE: Strategic Voting???

indeed. i feel at this point it is the only option available. harper must be gotten rid of! I almost feel like saying if this country turns to harper, it is time to move out of canada before the fall. I think a bloc government would be less likely to destroy canada than the Con-men led by harper.

So, what exactly is wrong with Harper?

How does he scare you?

 

[the caracal kid]

Lets see:

first, i watched what the forebearers of the CPC had to do to this country through the mulroney years (hey, in my youth i was niave enough to think conservatism actually works).

secondly, i see that what was decent about the old PC party has been destroyed by their absroption into the reform/crap/alliance/CPC nest.

thirdly, i do NOT trust anything that has ties to religious fundamnetalism. PERIOD! Any party that wants to declare one group of people as second class citizens are not a party of any "MORALS" at all.

fourthly, i have no desire at all to be more closely tied to the US, especially given the way politics has been going there over the past few years.

fifthly, i do suspect the harperites of a "secret agenda". this is something i suspected long before the Liberals ever jumped on this notion to "scare the populace". All it takes is to listen to them and you get the hidden message.

 

[zenfisher]

[quote="Colpy"
I do hope the electorate proves me wrong.[/quote]

I hope they prove you wrong too ...and vote Green or Cap or NDP or even Marijuana Party...Anyone but the "New " Conservative or Liberal Party.

Stop voting the status quo in they screw you every time.

 

[Colpy]

Re: RE: Strategic Voting???

Lets see:

first, i watched what the forebearers of the CPC had to do to this country through the mulroney years (hey, in my youth i was niave enough to think conservatism actually works).

I don't like Mulroney. It was as a reaction to his ways of governing that the Reform Party came to be. I was a Reformer.

Geez, it would be nice if you guys could decide on something for me. When you want about the CPC's record in gov't, you point to the worst of the Mulroney years, as if we were still the Progressive Conservatives. When you want to scare the ill-informed, you point out that Reform/CA took over the PC's, and that party no longer exists.

Which is it?

They are mutually exclusive.

secondly, i see that what was decent about the old PC party has been destroyed by their absroption into the reform/crap/alliance/CPC nest.

See what I mean?

thirdly, i do NOT trust anything that has ties to religious fundamnetalism. PERIOD! Any party that wants to declare one group of people as second class citizens are not a party of any "MORALS" at all. To me, the bible does not represent morals, but the one of the greatest signs of immorality given the acts described within and acts committed in the name of.

You are a victim of fear-mongering. Fundamentalist Christians do NOT control the CPC. Far from it. It is a "big tent" party, and the Christian right, although a factor, can only dream of the amount of influence they exert in the American Republican Party.

fourthly, i have no desire at all to be more closely tied to the US, especially given the way politics has been going there over the past few years.

A valid opinion, for sure. I do, however, consider the Yanks our closest friends and allies. Sometimes they piss us off.

fifthly, i do suspect the harperites of a "secret agenda". this is something i suspected long before the Liberals ever jumped on this notion to "scare the populace". All it takes is to listen to them and you get the hidden message

Garbage. You are the victim of fear mongering. A Liberal patsy.. Wake Up!

What do you think they will do, EXACTLY?

I'd love to hear it.

 

[Andygal]

I can't stand Harper because he and his cronies are panderers to corrupt big businesses and to the Republicians in the US. The Harperites support religious extremism which I cannot support myself. I can't stand religious extreism.

I don't think people should vote for the Liberals though. The Liberals are corrupt, and wishy-washy, they don't stand up[ enough to GWB's agendas and they don't do anything useful.

I think that best party out this is the NDP. Jack Layton has made an effort to make the House of Commons run properly. It's because of him that the budget got passed and that it contianed things that were in the interests of ordinary Canadians rather then just the interests of big business.

 

[no1important]

So, what exactly is wrong with Harper?

How does he scare you?

As the Rev mentioned somewhere else, go to google or yahoo and type in Stephen Harper quotes and see what pops up. That should answer your questions.

As well type in Canadian Coneservative Party quotes and you get some good Randy White and Elsie Wayne quotes among many others.

They may try to portray they are not racist or a bigoted party but they do not come across that way.

Basically the small "c" conservatives got booted when the Reform/Alliance merged with the PC's. The new Conservative party is basically the Reform party with a new fancy logo.

I went to a reform party meeting in Burnaby when they were first starting out under Preston Manning, it was the only one I went to (as I went to see what it was all about) and was full of intolerant bigoted pigs. I am surprised a cross burning did not conclude the meeting. There were also people leaving early as well due to the vile coming out of some "members" mouths. They trashed every miniority group from Gays to immigrants, trashed unions, trashed social programs. To me it was a party full of grumpy old bigoted men who were so full of hate.

Thats a part of the reason Conservatives and Harper are very scarey people. Thats what the Conservative party is full of now. With the exception of some from the Maratimes who are probabley old PC's. But in Ontario west it is just the Reform party redux.

Too be honest, if Harper got a majority somehow, he would ban abortion or try to re write the laws, he would send troops to Iraq, get into bed with Bush (and we see how well Bush is doing). We do not need that for this country.

The liberals suck but other than the NDP they are the best of the bunch.

The truth is the economy is doing well under Martin, unemployment is at 30 year low. I wish he would start acting tougher towards Americans towards softwood, it is time for him to put his money where his mouth is. They have pumped a lot of money into BC and Vancouver for LRT line, new convention centre, Olympics, made deal to give municipalities gas tax money, more money for natives, legalizing ssm, passed some NDP budget policies (with some encouragement from Jack Layton).

Sure there is Gomery but that is yesterdays news.

But really things in Canada are looking up with Martin. The country is in good shape. I really hate to of said that, as I support NDP but being a fair minded person,I give credit where credit is due.

The best case scenerio is a Lib miniority with NDP holding balance, a real balance not like last time. (but waiting to see how independants and more accuratly Chuck Cadman was going to vote did make for really good tv and made politics very interesting for a while)

 

[Colpy]

Re: RE: Strategic Voting???

I can't stand Harper because he and his cronies are panderers to corrupt big businesses and to the Republicians in the US. The Harperites support religious extremism which I cannot support myself. I can't stand religious extreism.

Baloney. That's all you can say about this. Simply untrue.

I don't think people should vote for the Liberals though. The Liberals are corrupt, and wishy-washy, they don't stand up[ enough to GWB's agendas and they don't do anything useful.

You got that right. In spades.

I think that best party out this is the NDP. Jack Layton has made an effort to make the House of Commons run properly. It's because of him that the budget got passed and that it contianed things that were in the interests of ordinary Canadians rather then just the interests of big business.

[/quote]

Well, I disagree, but at least with the NDP you can argue policy. I think they're out in left field somewhere, their policies are nutty (Yep, let's follow the UN straight to Hell), but at least they are honest and sincere, therefore a valid choice.

 

[Briteyes]

I am probably voting liberal this time around I usually vote NDP but this time I will be voting liberal in order to keep Harper out
someone in this forum askes why people would be afraid of Stephen Harper well remember 1.5 years ago when he went on Fox tv and appalogized for Canada not joining the US in the invasion of Iraq. Well this Canadian has not forgotten and that is why we must keep him out of the PMO. He can sugar coat whatever he wants but he would have had us knee deep in that war. And I am sure he would again if he were the Prime minister. You don't change your stripes in less than 2 years.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Colpy, earlier in this thread you equated Preston Mannings religious beliefs with having morals, and yet you deny the religious influence inherent within the Reform/Alliance/Conservatives.

Your equation of a person's religion with morals is offensive, small-minded and inaccurate. That's why your party scares people.

Manning's morals are not exactly above question either. What about Stornoway? Was he lying when he said he wouldn't move in? What about MP raises and pensions? Was he lying when he said his MPs wouldn't accept them? Morals, my ass. He said one thing, then did another.

When you want about the CPC's record in gov't, you point to the worst of the Mulroney years, as if we were still the Progressive Conservatives. When you want to scare the ill-informed, you point out that Reform/CA took over the PC's, and that party no longer exists.

Which is it?

They are mutually exclusive.

No, they are not mutually exclusive. Harper has taken the worst of the old Mulroney party and put it into his party. Mulroney was front and centre with your policy convention, where Harper referred to him as an advisor.

Your party faithful have a really bad habit of blaming Canada because we don't vote for your boy. You just called Canadians cowards. It seems to me that the political cowardice that exists in Canada exists in those who will not stand up for themselves and say no to integration with the US. It seems to me that political cowardice in Canada comes from those who are afraid to accept science because it might cost them a few dollars. It seems to me that the real political cowardice in Canada comes from a political leader who can't even give a straight answer when asked if he loves Canada.

 

[the caracal kid]

Garbage. You are the victim of fear mongering. A Liberal patsy.. Wake Up!

no1important and reverend blair pretty much summed up what i would say to your questions but as for a 'liberal patsy' you are making a big assumption. I have never said anything supporting the liberals. I don't like the politcal structure of canada and would like reform to the system. I have never voted Liberal (in fact i voted PC under Mulroney - first vote, and independent other times). Now i am looking pragmatically and seeing that Canada is doing well after the Liberal years, and they are the only ones capable of forming a government and keeping the Cons at bay so i might vote for them (i will vote strategically against the Cons). If i had the option, i would consider a bloc candidate for even a separtatist party is less likely to rip the country apart than the fractious Cons (yes, harper is anything but a unifier. The Cons are not even a national party in any way other than running candidates in all regions).

 

[Reverend Blair]

I've said this more than once, but I'll say it again...and again and again and again. If you are voting strategically, make sure you know what's going in you local race. If the race is between the NDP and Conservative candidate and you vote Liberal to keep Harper out, you've essentially just voted for Harper.

 

[the caracal kid]

indeed reverend. Strategic voting is about studying the riding you are in to achieve the desired effect rather than studying the parties.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Strategic voting boned the NDP last time around and has cost seats in every election since Mulroney came to power. Still, I think it's a legitimate voting strategy because so many people against somebody rather than for something.

 

[the caracal kid]

a true statement on the dire conditions of canadian politics when people are more focused on what they are against than on what they are for (as the old saying goes, it is easier to rip apart somebody else's ideas than to create your own).

I really would like to see major structural changes to our political system, and i have a list of political issues i would like to see addressed. Unfortunately, change is not coming because once one gets power in the current system they are not prone to making changes that reduces/alters it, and my list of issues would actually require a leader with vision for the future of this country which is sorely lacking. Why is it we embrace such medeocrity in our supposed leaders?

 

[pastafarian]

If the race is between the NDP and Conservative candidate and you vote Liberal to keep Harper out, you've essentially just voted for Harper.

In my riding a Liberal vote is the only one that will keep Harper out, but I still have to live with myself. *sigh*

I'm contemplating a spoiled ballot... :?

 

[missile]

That won't be any problem here,as the NDP is dead in this province.

 

[Jay]

If the race is between the NDP and Conservative candidate and you vote Liberal to keep Harper out, you've essentially just voted for Harper.

In my riding a Liberal vote is the only one that will keep Harper out, but I still have to live with myself. *sigh*

I'm contemplating a spoiled ballot... :?

:idea:

Hey Pasta, why don't you start a spaghetti monster party and run for the seat?