Strategic Voting???

[Reverend Blair]

Rev, I think 58 seats is a little optimistic.

More than a little, Juan. There are 58 seats that the NDP could realistically win, based on the last election, voting history, and current polls. The chances of winning them all is not realistic though. That's why I put the "reality" number at around 30. I'd be happy with 25, and ecstatic with 35.

I think 25 will give us a stable minority and 30 will be enough to push through the ethics package in full. That ethics package is important because it ensures stable minorities pretty much in perpetuity through PR and set election dates. All of that will free people up to vote for who they want instead of who they don't want and allow issues like the environment to come to the forefront.

 

[MMMike]

I'm only kind of joking there. Every other party has come out against Harper's GST cut. That would be a money bill. If Harper introduced it in a minority parliament, his government would be defeated. Either he knows that and has no intention of cutting the GST, or he's willing to put us through two elections in a single year.

Yeah right, this tax cut is very popular with the average voter. I'd love to see the Liberals vote against it - it'll never happen. They'll run a poll, then go with whatever it tells them to do - which is support the cut.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Harper's government would fall, and the Liberals would form the next government by introducing a different plan.

What is far more likely is that Harper will never introduce the bill though. He has made a promise he knows he can't keep.

It's nothing but a cynical political gambit. It has pissed off Harper's economist buddies, so they're likely to pan his platform again, and when he can't deliver people will realise that he never intended to.

 

[JomZ]

Its true,

The sad fact is that we are going to be stuck with a quick succession of minority governments until another Trudeau or Mulroney like figure comes along and really sells the whole statesman ideology. (Here's a thread topic idea, What happened to these kinds of politicians?)

And that these close races are still between hundreds if not thousands of votes. (So strategic voting seems important but unless you convince others of your constituency to vote with you, you are not going to make much of a difference.)

Do you know how hard it is to get someone who doesnt want to vote to go out and vote?

The majority of voters are unaware of a majority of plans that the parties put forward, unless it pretains to them personally (IE aging population = importance of healthcare), or its a big deal (SSM). The understanding of the smaller but important issues like the ethics bill might swing voters

Unless you teach people atleast in your family and friends about the parties, then your voting strategically isn't as big a deal as you think. Thats my opinion anyway.

 

[Andygal]

I've been trying to convince my dad to vote NDP. Not that his vote would do much good in our riding. Liberal safe seat pretty much I think.

 

[Reverend Blair]

I've been trying to convince my dad to vote NDP. Not that his vote would do much good in our riding. Liberal safe seat pretty much I think.

I've been trying to convince my dad's wife to let me paint a huge NDP sign on their quanset hut. You can see this thing for miles. She's afraid how the rednecks in the area might react though.

The sad fact is that we are going to be stuck with a quick succession of minority governments until another Trudeau or Mulroney like figure comes along and really sells the whole statesman ideology.

I don't think minority governments are something that you get "stuck" with JomZ. I think they keep the power balanced and allow the will of Canadians to become policy.

A real leader would be able to build consenus in a minority though...to make the case for what he believes in order to get it through the House.

 

[Calberty]

I'll vote Green party. The environment is a big issue for me but the Conservatives are a shoe-in in my riding. I'd only vote 'against' a party if there was a chance the NDP would win my riding. The NDP proposes an tax on energy exports from Alberta and that was the last straw for me. I now actively work against the NDP, can't stand Liberal crooks, the Conservatives don't need my vote....the Greens will get it. Besides, the Greens are well ahead of the NDP in my riding and they are nibbling on the Liberal's heels....but still a zillion votes behind the Conservatives.

 

[Reverend Blair]

You mentioned the export tax in another thread, Calberty. As I said there, your position doesn't make sense because the export tax would do nothing to harm you.

 

[Roy]

strategic voting is what I would be be doing......I would even vote for the NDP if they were neck and neck with the liberlas..........just to get the crooks out

 

[Roy]

What really pissed me off yesterday was martins speech at the climate change conference. I mean he critisized the US for not joining Kyoto. While I am also concerned with the US and thier global emissions, Martin is being a total hypocrite. The US while not signing kyoto have emissions raised by 13% since 1990 ..but Canada under the liberals have increased emissions by 25%....now that is a joke.

 

[Reverend Blair]

The US numbers are in question, Roy, and they are not at those levels because of Bush's policies even if those numbers are correct.

The US, because of its size, did a lot of harm by not joining Kyoto. Part of the reason why we haven't done better is because our leaders use the US as an excuse. It's not a legitimate excuse, but you hear politicians and business leaders use it all of the time. Other nations, and China is one of them, have cited US non-participation as a reason why they should not participate either.

The fact remains that the US is the world's largest emitter though. The worst of the worst. With just under 300 million people the US emits more fossil fuels than China's billion or so.

 

[Calberty]

Re: RE: Strategic Voting???

What really pissed me off yesterday was martins speech at the climate change conference. I mean he critisized the US for not joining Kyoto. While I am also concerned with the US and thier global emissions, Martin is being a total hypocrite. The US while not signing kyoto have emissions raised by 13% since 1990 ..but Canada under the liberals have increased emissions by 25%....now that is a joke.

roy, that's why I'm voting Green this time. I really don't give a hoot about the formal image of the major parties and their environmental drivel talk. I can't say I even agree with the Greens that much on most policies. On the positive side, at least here in Alberta, the Greens are getting a lot of press and it forces the other parties to take the environment off the back burner and proactively address the issue.

In my riding the Greens came third last election and in a few other Alberta ridings (and a total of 21 across the country). I have no illusions about winning a seat but a solid showing of 6% to 8% across Canada gives them more credibility and forces the other parties to walk the talk.

 

[Roy]

yea are right Rev, and it is also vice versa..the US diden't join because developing coutries would not join and the US will be competing with them. But it is all a vicious circle and no one wins in the end. Those stats I got were from watching the CBC National yesterday, and I have heard in many reports that Canada is doing much worse than the US. But I agree that for Bush climate is not on the radar, because of his blundering of the economy. :roll:

But still the fact remains that the LIberal party of Canada critisizing the US, is like MIchael Moore telling you to put down that hotdog and excercise...its absolute hypocracy, and we need to stop pointing the finger at the US and fix our own problems.\

And Calberty, I agree the greens are a much better choice than the NDP :wink:

 

[Reverend Blair]

But still the fact remains that the LIberal party of Canada critisizing the US, is like MIchael Moore telling you to put down that hotdog and excercise.

Would Moore be wrong to give you that advice? No, because it's good advice.

I wish the Liberals would do better on the environment. I wish they would have started when they should have instead of waiting until now. That doesn't mean that Martin was wrong to point out that the US is the worst of the worst.

 

[DasFX]

Re: RE: Strategic Voting???

So, what exactly is wrong with Harper?

How does he scare you?

Harper doesn't scare me; I just do not think that he would be a good Prime Minister. It has nothing to do with policy, he doesn't write them. In theory, I agree with more Liberal policy than Conservative policy so that is how I vote, but after the scandal I'd be willing to have a Conservative minority for a couple of years just to have a change, but when I look at Harper, I just don't see it.

Most successful elected leaders in the world have a personality and some charisma that resonates with citizens. Look at Trudeau, not everything he did was good, but that man had life. Mulroney, Chretien, Martin, Layton, Duceppe - they all had/have something. Someone needs to light a fire under Harper's ass.

Also, I perceive him as an American kiss ass. If I wanted a puppet in Ottawa, I can think of much better ones like Casey and Finnegan or Jerome the Giraffe.

 

[Calberty]

"Look at Trudeau"

Sure, the biggest a$$hole in Canadian history and so hated by many Albertans the Liberals will be happy to win a single seat in Alberta 20 years after the NEP.

His 'vision' of Canada was so messed up that it's helped lead to regional and political solitudes in a coutry that is disintegrating.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Sure, the biggest a$$hole in Canadian history and so hated by many Albertans the Liberals will be happy to win a single seat in Alberta 20 years after the NEP.

Ah, the NEP myth rears its ugly head again. Did Trudeau and the NEP cause world oil prices to dive? Of course not. The NEP caused some very minor short-term damage to the Alberta economy, but was instrumental in Alberta being able to wealthy later. The NEP did get the oil sands rolling, and it did get pipelines built so Alberta could get its oil and gas to markets in the east.

 

[Reverend Blair]

I've been watching a few ridings, mostly in BC and Saskatchewan. It seems that if Conservatives in many BC ridings want to keep Martin out of power they should vote NDP. If Liberals in Saskatchewan want to keep Harper out of power, they should vote NDP.

Ontario is more of a mixed bag, but in many ridings if you are a Liberal or a Conservative and want to keep the other guy out of power, you should vote NDP.

If you are NDP though, and you want to hold the balance of power, then you should vote NDP.

If you are a Green and didn't join up to support the major polluters that former Mulroneyite Jim Harris wants to coddle, then you should vote NDP.

If you live in the Churchill riding of Manitoba and you want to have a real representative in Ottawa instead of of an actress that was cynically parachuted in by the Liberals because she once played a real person on television, then you should vote for Niki Ashton of the NDP.

In short, if you plan to vote strategically, then the best strategy is to vote NDP.

 

[mrmom2]

So let me get this right i should vote NDP ? :lol: :lol:

 

[Reverend Blair]

So let me get this right i should vote NDP ?

Strategically, it's the right thing to do.