Something Fishy in Canada. Very Fishy.

mt_pockets1000

Council Member
Jun 22, 2006
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Twila, seals don't just eat cod. I listed their entire diet further back in this thread. If the cod stocks are down that means they are eating the remaining species to survive. And once they're gone so go the seals. When seals eat a fish they don't consume the whole fish. They eat the soft belly and chuck the remaining parts back onto the ocean floor. Much like the seal hunters do with a seal carcass. Sort of ironic in an animalistic way.
 

mt_pockets1000

Council Member
Jun 22, 2006
1,292
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48
Edmonton
Don't do what Johnny? I have no city to worry about. I'm a transient easterner who travels around the country finding work where ever I can. I hold no allegience to any city in this country (though I do have a soft spot for Sudbury). When I retire, I will find a nice spot overlooking the depleted Atlantic Ocean and watch the seals frolic and play. I might even train one as a pet. I'll need something to keep me company in my old age. I'll reminisce about the good old days when fish were plentiful, when seals were a nuisance and when man lived in harmony with nature. I'll be more ornery than I already am and public forums everywhere will not allow me access because I'll be too cranky to deal with.
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
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50 acres in Kootenays BC
the-brights.net
I agree with you. We have made a mess of the fish stocks. We have to live with that now. However, the cod fishery has been a non-entity since 1992. You would think the stocks would've replenished after 17 years of relative quiet. But they won't come back because the seal population keeps growing and, being a natural predator, seals will keep the cod stocks down by eating the few remaining fish in the area. They don't stand a chance of coming back unless the seal population is kept to a sensible level. This was not a problem when the cod stocks were strong, when both fishermen and seals alike could take from the pool and not jeopardize the balance. But the reality is foreign overfishing, poor government management and general disinterest from the likes of IFAW worked to decimate the cod (they're just not cute enough). Now it's our responsibility to correct this unbalance. If that means culling 2-3 million seals from the herd then let's get at it and let the bleeding hearts suck it up.

I fear the alternative...a total ban on the hunt.
Unfortunately we also have depleted the numbers of critters than used the seal as food. We have made quite a mess of things. I hardly think that much of anything we do will be the right thing to do. We are in the habit of creating awkward imbalances.
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
23,738
107
63
70
50 acres in Kootenays BC
the-brights.net
Twila, seals don't just eat cod. I listed their entire diet further back in this thread. If the cod stocks are down that means they are eating the remaining species to survive. And once they're gone so go the seals. When seals eat a fish they don't consume the whole fish. They eat the soft belly and chuck the remaining parts back onto the ocean floor. Much like the seal hunters do with a seal carcass. Sort of ironic in an animalistic way.
Crabs and other scavengers may like what we leave them. Unfortunately, we will probably end up with a planet plumb full of scavenger species and not much else.
 

mt_pockets1000

Council Member
Jun 22, 2006
1,292
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48
Edmonton
Crabs and other scavengers may like what we leave them. Unfortunately, we will probably end up with a planet plumb full of scavenger species and not much else.
Cockroaches will be the only species left on the planet. It'll be us and them. Man will develop a hardshell casing around the body and it'll be all out war with the cockroaches.
 

mt_pockets1000

Council Member
Jun 22, 2006
1,292
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Edmonton
Unfortunately we also have depleted the numbers of critters than used the seal as food. We have made quite a mess of things. I hardly think that much of anything we do will be the right thing to do. We are in the habit of creating awkward imbalances.
Aren't we though. But don't despair. The animal welfare crowd are here to save the day. :smile:
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
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No ... actually, I support the fishing industry.

It sucks that the fishing industry wasted all the Cod so that now there are none. Some said hit the brakes but the fishing industry moved on to other fish stocks and now they have started to fail. It was the fishing industry that wasted all that abundance that was on the east coast. Same thing is happening on the west coast too.

At what point do you say enough? At what point do you agree that the fishing industry doesn't know what it's doing and step in? Now? When it's all gone? Something you make up right now because you don't know the answer?

I sick to death of hearing about people's jobs. There will always be work for those smart enough to move with the flow. We don't need a six million dollar seal harvest, for some seriously dubious reasons. We need to have morally upstanding, sustainable work that is progressive without resorting to simply raping the earth and giving it away for nothing.

If you just leave the fishery alone, stop trying to fix things by slaughtering other things, it will return or be replaced by a successful species in balance.

I know that doesn't sound any where near as fun as going and shooting things up and blaming every thing on nature, the weather, the bosa nova and bad luck, but there you have it.
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
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In the bush near Sudbury
It sucks that the fishing industry wasted all the Cod so that now there are none. Some said hit the brakes but the fishing industry moved on to other fish stocks and now they have started to fail. It was the fishing industry that wasted all that abundance that was on the east coast. Same thing is happening on the west coast too.

At what point do you say enough? At what point do you agree that the fishing industry doesn't know what it's doing and step in? Now? When it's all gone? Something you make up right now because you don't know the answer?

I sick to death of hearing about people's jobs. There will always be work for those smart enough to move with the flow. We don't need a six million dollar seal harvest, for some seriously dubious reasons. We need to have morally upstanding, sustainable work that is progressive without resorting to simply raping the earth and giving it away for nothing.

If you just leave the fishery alone, stop trying to fix things by slaughtering other things, it will return or be replaced by a successful species in balance.

I know that doesn't sound any where near as fun as going and shooting things up and blaming every thing on nature, the weather, the bosa nova and bad luck, but there you have it.

My, my but we're awful testy lately. When are you doing that trans-Atlantic voyage? Fish stocks may worry you then....
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
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My, my but we're awful testy lately. When are you doing that trans-Atlantic voyage? Fish stocks may worry you then....

It's coming along. What does that have to do with the topic other than something to distract from you obviously not having a damn thing to come back with in rebuttle to the points I've made?
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
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In the bush near Sudbury
It's coming along. What does that have to do with the topic other than something to distract from you obviously not having a damn thing to come back with in rebuttle to the points I've made?

Frankly, there was nothing worth rebuttle. You're just trollin....

I wonder if there'll be some real hungry sharks to help you back aboard when the wind blows your dinghy over....
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
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Wow, miss a few hours...miss a lot.

Yes the hunt is carried out in the name of vanity but that should not be the main focus.

It is the focus. No one needs these seals hunted for sustenance. So if it's just for fashion, then you can't really justify it on moral grounds.
Fashion removes any chance for balance.

These animals are a direct threat to the remaining fish stocks on the east coast and in the arctic.

Long before Indians came across the land bridge of the Aleutians in the Barring Sea, those seals were eating fish off the east coast. Once the new order landed on that coast, the fish stocks met their match.
It isn't seals or global warming or bad luck, the fishing industry brought that down. Put the blame where it belongs.

Where is the leadership from our government to look at this industry and refine it so that the hunt is done for the right reasons? It needs attention at the federal and provincial level. Simply calling it cruel and saying it should be shut down is not constructive and is a kneejerk reaction.

The government isn't going to fix anything. When has the government fixed something that was messed up? The government can only say yes or no with legislation. The only thing that will change the current situation for the better is the en mass removal of human tampering and allow nature to re balance the system. The more we learn about the natural system the more we see just how out of our hands it really is.

The Maritimes need to move into something beyond a resource based economy to become a wealthy part of Canada.

Take a cue from Karrie and process the whole animal. The meat can be used for pet food. It's also rich in protein and can be processed into capsules for human intake. Why aren't these paths explored further? Any way you slice it the hunt has to carry on, just to cull the necessary numbers in order to maintain balance in the region. Otherwise, we are going to see seals creeping up the St. Lawrence River straight to the heart of the country. Then by geezus you'll hear an outcry.

No one is going to eat seal in any quantity to justify this paltry slaughter let along make an industry out of it. The hunt is as I said welfare and instead of putting our heads in the sand and attempting to get others to say we must soldier on, we need to change, open new areas of sustainable business that has a demand for more than just fashion. The seals and the fish will work out their problem in their own time if we simply leave it alone.

If the seal hunt is welfare then so is cattle ranching or mink farming or the textile industry.

Nice that you try and squeeze Mink Farming in there with Cattle ranching and the textile industry. People need clothes and food. Fur is not something that is irreplaceable. Cattle is slaughtered and the whole animal used. I wear leather, I have leather furniture. I have leather in the interior of my car. My shoes are leather. I have myself over my life time consumed at least one cow and will be going for it to get another down my gullet before I cash in my chips. I eat burgers, roasts, steaks, ribs alsorts of cuts from beef and pork. I eat all the meat and use what's left every day. Perhaps the majority of the members posting here do to. Find me ten people who can say the same about seal. You're right about Mink Farming though, it can go the way of the seal hunt.

Your logic is weak and falls right in line with typical Canadian attitude towards the east coast. Sure, why don't we shut the hunt down. Then Ottawa can send the displaced people more of your tax dollars in transfer payments. Would that satisfy your righteous mind? Either way you can still use the 'welfare' mindset. How convenient, eh?

The logic is infallible! I love all parts of Canada from BC to Labrador.
Those who clear cut old growth, sell the logs to foreign countries and bugger off leaving the mess to so called hunters who club baby seals for fashion leaving the carcass on the ice to oil barons raping the environment in northern Alberta for oil, all have to go. Far too long we've sat around making a huge mess in this country ripping the resources from the ground and giving away the value to others for a quick buck. This is why the east coast is a burden on other provinces and youth have to move away or scrap out a living holding on. It's the same in many parts of Canada. Not because there just isn't any money here, but for the simple fact that no one tells the locals that it's worth much more than a string of beads.

The truth hurts but it's long over due for someone to put aside concern for hurt feelings and say enough is enough. Look around the world and you can see what happens when you sell the rights to your homeland.

With a global energy shift we have the chance to choose what sort of country we live in. And what happens on the ice off the east coast matters in downtown Toronto, Flin Flon and Tofino every bit as much as what happens on Bay St. affects the whole country.

It's time to stand up and do whats right for now, for the future and for all Canadians, not just the few who can get a fast buck out of it for now.
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
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Frankly, there was nothing worth rebuttle. You're just trollin....

I wonder if there'll be some real hungry sharks to help you back aboard when the wind blows your dinghy over....

Well I made a whole thread for you in the Cage where you don't have to worry about topic or rebuttle or anything to do with constructive discussion. You're welcome to sit there doing whatever it is you are trying to do here without bothering anyone in the thread.
 
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lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
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Well I made a whole thread for you in the Cage where you don't have to worry about topic or rebuttle or anything to do with constructive discussion. You're welcome to sit there doing whatever it is you are trying to do here without bothering anyone in the thread.

You're the one doing all the trolling....